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00:01 MinceR; \_()_/
00:07 AltLink_c52c; New Issue | Encrypted message | https://framagit.org/dCF/deCloudflare/-/issues/31
00:07 TR Bot; Encrypted message (#31) Issues Crimeflare / deCloudflare GitLab
00:08 MinceR; https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2022/04/13/the-eldest-ring
00:08 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: penny-arcade.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2022/04/13/the-eldest-ring https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2022/04/13/the-eldest-ring
00:08 TR Bot; The Eldest Ring - Penny Arcade
00:10 *techrights-ipfs-bot (~techrights-ipfs-bot@s44cwn8sugddy.irc) has joined #techrights
00:10 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 20.16 k/sec., IPFS upstream 117.35 average k/sec., average swarm size 336.21
00:10 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 20.16 k/sec., IPFS upstream 117.35 average k/sec., average swarm size 336.21
00:11 DaemonFC; Hmm, schestowitz-TR...
00:12 DaemonFC; Walmart does TPMS sensors for $30 a tire.
00:12 DaemonFC; Hard to argue with that.
00:12 DaemonFC; I can swap out all of them and use my discount card.
00:15 matey; I can swap out all of them and use my discount card. <- do you need to? if they do a shit job you might be worse off or something
00:15 matey; but if you need to, maybe its worth the risk
00:15 schestowitz-TR; DaemonFC: fine, but this channel is not about your car anyway
00:15 matey; #carrights
00:15 schestowitz-TR; more like:
00:15 MinceR; #cartech
00:15 schestowitz-TR; #ryanscar
00:15 DaemonFC; I was pretty pissed to find out they run on batteries in this car.
00:16 MinceR; i suspect they run on batteries in every car
00:16 matey; except the yugo, it had an extension cord
00:16 MinceR; well, presumably not if the car has CTIS
00:16 MinceR; lol
00:16 MinceR; the yugo has no TPMS
00:16 MinceR; nor CTIS
00:16 DaemonFC; "Hey, you know that thing that worked forever in the Impala? Here, replace it every 5 years because of a stupid battery you can't remove."
00:16 matey; i meant for the ignition
00:17 matey; though maybe it didnt have that either
00:17 matey; "just take this scraper and squeeze it like youre starting a blowtorch every second or two"
00:18 MinceR; lol
00:18 matey; you could spin a wheel around, but instead of ordinary spokes youd have candles...
00:18 MinceR; you'd have very low RPMs that way
00:18 matey; well it was a high-performance vehicle
00:18 matey; at least until the lada came out
00:18 MinceR; lol
00:19 TR News; "Welcome to the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter, Issue 731 for the week of April 10 16, 2022." https://ubuntu-news.org/2022/04/18/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-731/
00:19 TR Bot; Ubuntu Fridge | Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter Issue 731
00:21 TR News; "A talented IT professional like Kaplan is probably not expected to put on a uniform and carry a gun. During the periods when he is unavailable it is more likely that professionals like Kaplan are asked to assist with signals intelligence and cyber war." https://debian.community/lior-kaplan-mossad/
00:21 TR Bot; Lior Kaplan, Mossad & Debian
00:23 TR News; "Before COVID, they were a full service shop, but you could buy parts there too, and after COVID, the store outside the shop is empty of retail stuff and they just want to service your car, for twice what the dealer rates are! Again, HOW?" https://baronhk.wordpress.com/2022/04/18/tpms-sensor-replacement-in-the-buick/
00:23 TR Bot; TPMS sensor replacement in the Buick. BaronHK's Rants
00:23 matey; /me looks for information on compiling gtk2 without gperf, can only find it on github, where gtk2 is not based
00:23 matey; of course its not going to tell me how, so im not going to go there. the point is its the only lead i could find
00:23 matey; on github. where gtk2 is not based.
00:24 schestowitz-TR; [20:20] <techrights-news> Git is released. LWN and Phoronix link to MICROSOFT GITHUB (an ATTACK on Git!!!) instead of the actual announcement!! And if you search for Git in Wikipedia the second result isn't Git but GitHub, also an attack on Git.
00:24 schestowitz-TR; [20:21] <techrights-news> Letting GitHub control Git is like letting Microsoft control Linux or allowing Bill Gates to babysit your kids
00:24 schestowitz-TR; ^ matey
00:26 matey; schestowitz-TR and so your purchase is becoming chevy patchwork <- looks at roys computer setup
00:26 matey; im not saying anythings wrong with it, except the argument
00:26 matey; <schestowitz-TR> ^ matey <- im confused as to what youre pointing at
00:26 *activelow wonders what the motivation behind cmake was
00:27 matey; just to cmake things difficult
00:27 activelow; cmake, written in c++ (controlled by corps), supports portability towards microsoft
00:29 matey; im confused as to what youre pointing at <- ah, now i understand. i filter out the bots, otherwise i wouldnt know what people in here are saying
00:30 matey; of course on rare occasion, filtering them so i dont know what people are saying IS THE REASON i dont know what theyre saying
00:31 matey; MinceR the ultimate being-repaired machine <- no, it doesnt run systemd
00:32 matey; schestowitz-TR refreshes rss <- read this as "refreshes rms" but good luck
00:32 matey; easier than refreshing fsf but theres a nuance
00:33 matey; i mean a hard dependency
00:37 schestowitz-TR; actually no...
00:38 schestowitz-TR; I want to go through ryan's link using rss
00:38 schestowitz-TR; and without js
00:38 schestowitz-TR; rss is also my initials, but no connection
00:38 schestowitz-TR; regarding my coimputers being patchwork, yes, it's true..
00:38 schestowitz-TR; I basically adds bits and bobs
00:38 schestowitz-TR; and keep the older ones around, trying to maximise use of those
00:39 MinceR; https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2022/04/15/surtr
00:39 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: penny-arcade.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2022/04/15/surtr https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2022/04/15/surtr
00:39 TR Bot; Surtr - Penny Arcade
00:39 schestowitz; http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2022/04/18/work-from-home-setup/
00:39 TR Bot; Blog Archive My New Work-From-Home Setup (Changed This Easter/Sunday)
00:40 matey; <schestowitz-TR> regarding my coimputers being patchwork, yes, it's true.. <- theres noting wrong with that, but its unavoidable with a car
00:40 matey; it is an old car, and fixing it is bullshit, but the latter is because its a car, not because its old
00:41 matey; the whole point of getting an old car was to avoid MORE bullshit, not to avoid bullshit altogether
00:41 matey; its a lesser evil
00:41 matey; you might say walking is a lesser evil, but it depends on the layout of where you live. you dont have to get mandy to work.
00:41 matey; you live in a city that is suited to pedestrian life.
00:42 matey; but no matter what, if you have a car, theres going to be bullshit and fixes-- if youre lucky you get a car that is LESS bullshit, and you dont have to do this as often
00:43 matey; but its like getting a cat. even if its free, its going to cost you a lot when you first get it
00:43 matey; /me doesnt know why they cant make cats that are better from the factory, but isnt qualified to do anything about it
00:44 MinceR; it's an optimization attempt
00:44 MinceR; eventually old cars become less reliable and more expensive to maintain
00:45 TR News; GNU Parted 3.5 Released with Support for the Linux Home GUID, Bug Fixes Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163876
00:45 TR Bot; GNU Parted 3.5 Released with Support for the Linux Home GUID, Bug Fixes | Tux Machines
00:47 activelow; anyway, at first glance, attaching cmake to any component as a build time dependency (bdep) seems not critical
00:47 activelow; yet, what happens once it is, such as, required by lz4 compression
00:48 activelow; such a library, often, resides inside base system, then suddenly both cmake and c++ are pulled even when lz4 itself doesnt require it during runtime
00:48 activelow; this poisons the whole tree
00:48 activelow; similar situation with zstd (from facebook)
00:49 activelow; autotools weren't that bad, except those weren't tailored for... deployment to microsoft
00:49 matey; eventually old cars become less reliable and more expensive to maintain <- as opposed to new ones that are already like that when you get them
00:49 MinceR; depends on the car in question
00:50 matey; of course
00:50 MinceR; mine is pretty reliable and inexpensive to maintain so far
00:50 matey; either way the selection of 90s cars is getting smaller
00:50 matey; unless they start making more of them
00:50 matey; we would have to find some way to tell them
00:51 MinceR; they can't, unless they invent the time machine
00:51 matey; right?
00:51 matey; in day of the tentacle, dr fred makes a time machine out of an edsel and "port-o-johns"
00:51 MinceR; i'd be fine with naughties cars though
00:51 matey; he was going to use an impala but dfc set him straight
00:52 XRevan86; autotools are great. Slow but great. Needlessly complicated but great. Complicated both as a design and as a programming experience. But great.
00:52 MinceR; even later if i can have the telematics disabled without wreaking too much havoc
00:52 MinceR; XRevan86: lol
00:52 XRevan86; So nothing wrong with autotols except that darn Microsoft deployment lobby.
00:52 matey; requiring perl, but great
00:52 TR News; Microsoft Windows TCO https://thehackernews.com/2022/04/russian-hackers-tried-attacking.html
00:52 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: thehackernews.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://thehackernews.com/2022/04/russian-hackers-tried-attacking.html https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://thehackernews.com/2022/04/russian-hackers-tried-attacking.html
↺ https://web.archive.org/web/https://thehackernews.com/2022/04/russian-hackers-tried-attacking.html
00:52 TR Bot; Russian Hackers Tried Attacking Ukraine's Power Grid with Industroyer2 Malware
00:52 MinceR; nothing wrong with autoconfuse as long as i don't have to use it
00:53 activelow; XRevan86: you're saying it is great, i am saying cmake/meson/etc. add more problems than fixing any
00:53 matey; XRevan86 <- suppose i hated autotools with a passion (not with a passion, havent used it) and i wanted to FORK a reasonable alternative to them
00:53 TR News; Experiment with 80s graphics using this breadboard setup https://blog.arduino.cc/2022/04/19/experiment-with-80s-graphics-using-this-breadboard-setup/
00:53 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: arduino.cc | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://blog.arduino.cc/2022/04/19/experiment-with-80s-graphics-using-this-breadboard-setup/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://blog.arduino.cc/2022/04/19/experiment-with-80s-graphics-using-this-breadboard-setup/
00:53 TR Bot; Experiment with '80s graphics using this breadboard setup | Arduino Blog
00:53 matey; what should i fork instead? (because its probably github based and until its forked, no)
00:53 activelow; in fact, with the build systems introduced, supposed to fix the greatness, the dependency graphs were blown up further
00:54 matey; assume i have a team of a handful of skilled people (but not wizards)
00:54 TR News; [PATCH 0/3] New SMCA Syndrome registers and FRU Text feature - Yazen Ghannam https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20220418174010.330559-1-yazen.ghannam@amd.com/ Source: amd
00:54 TR Bot; [PATCH 0/3] New SMCA Syndrome registers and FRU Text feature - Yazen Ghannam
00:54 activelow; thinking about it, i do not want python as a build dependency of any package inside base system; autotools/make etc. are sufficiently great
00:54 MinceR; yeah, cmake and meson are probably even worse
00:54 MinceR; i'm glad neither lisp nor python needs any of that
00:54 matey; <activelow> thinking about it, i do not want python as a build dependency of any package inside base system <- you are so fucked
00:55 matey; <MinceR> i'm glad neither lisp nor python needs any of that <- what about gnu libc?
00:55 MinceR; it's abstracted from me in that case
00:55 XRevan86; matey: https://git.sr.ht/%7Elattis/muon fork this then.
00:55 TR Bot; ~lattis/muon - sourcehut git
00:56 MinceR; then again, if i had to write native code, it's possible that i could get away with relying on a reasonably standard set of free unixes and just use a makefile of some sort
00:56 matey; my understanding (or hopefully misunderstanding) of gnu is that its MOSTLY perl and python, IF you intend to actually build the fucking thing (even just the core of it, not silly things that arent the least bit essential)
00:56 MinceR; gmake if necessary
00:56 matey; <XRevan86> matey: https://git.sr.ht/%7Elattis/muon fork this then. <- cheers, thanks
00:56 activelow; i am not saying it must be removed, cmake, python/meson, i am saying it must be possible to remove it from the base system
00:57 matey; i am not saying it must be removed <- oh this isnt your fault, its just... theyre everywhere
00:57 activelow; simply because, autotools/make are already there, and cannot be removed anyway, and with meson/python yet another bdep blows up the dependency graph
00:57 matey; indeed
00:58 activelow; cmake was a heavy attack against free software, it benefit microsoft, and noone else; _my_ opinion
00:59 activelow; c++ itself, and the story related to gcc, was the next escalation, even worse the cmake attack
00:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 18.91 k/sec., IPFS upstream 66.60 average k/sec., average swarm size 282.53
00:59 XRevan86; I'm failing to see the connection between CMake and Microsoft.
00:59 activelow; XRevan86: cmake generates vstudio sln
00:59 TR News; Some Web sites have become soooo dumb that they've outsourced everything to ClownFlare with JavaScript challenges made mandatory. Maybe those webmasters don't know what RSS feeds are; RSS readers cannot solve JS challenges!!! These sites commit suicide. Social control media won't redeem them.
00:59 activelow; that's why, it's creeping into, the tree
00:59 XRevan86; activelow: The horror!
01:00 XRevan86; What other terrifying backends does it have?
01:00 activelow; the horror is autotools+cmake+python/meson+++++
01:00 activelow; and, it's not possible to generate _simple_ makefiles with cmake
01:01 activelow; as soon as cmake is involved, the makefiles are... almost as terrible than what automake exretes
01:01 activelow; *excretes
01:01 XRevan86; activelow: Those aren't supposed to be used standalone.
01:02 XRevan86; autotools generating standalone Makefiles is one of the reasons of why it's so slow and complicated.
01:02 activelow; yes, and i object to cmake blowing up the tree, particularly because cmake itself is implemented in c++
01:02 XRevan86; And error-prone, albeit that's implied.
01:03 activelow; besides, the components inside gentoo stage tarballs, do not require cmake (could have changed since zstd, need to check, i removed zstd which pulled in some rubbish)
01:03 XRevan86; activelow: I think that stops you from understanding why these tools are being used.
01:04 activelow; XRevan86: i hacked with all of it, autotools, cmake, make, etc...
01:04 activelow; i've had enough of it
01:04 matey; <activelow> cmake was a heavy attack against free software, it benefit microsoft, and noone else; _my_ opinion <- interested, but not sure why it helps microsoft
01:05 XRevan86; matey: Backends, my friend.
01:05 activelow; it benefits microsoft, and blows up the dependency graph
01:05 matey; /me is grateful there are non-shills who can provide counterpoints to activelow sometimes
01:05 XRevan86; matey: A non-Microsoft build system will only support make.
01:05 matey; so cmake really is useless then
01:06 activelow; no, cmake does not belong into the base-system, at least
01:06 activelow; python/meson, same
01:06 XRevan86; Meson doesn't do make at all, by the way, it's oriented on ninja.
01:06 matey; /me doesnt tend to investigate build tools, since no personal investigation would likely be as useful as collecting opinions from people who have used them
01:06 matey; meson seems to be a power grab, or is it
01:07 AltLink_c52c; New Issue | Dhl shipment | https://framagit.org/dCF/deCloudflare/-/issues/32
01:07 TR Bot; Dhl shipment (#32) Issues Crimeflare / deCloudflare GitLab
01:07 activelow; furthermore, it isn't autotools at fault, with the complexity involved, autotools are the swiss army knive of the unix wars
01:07 activelow; at least, at that time, microsoft had no word to say;
01:07 XRevan86; Ironically, Meson is the best thing that could've happened to activelow (or muon is).
01:08 activelow; so, all the goodies available with autotools, weren't with microsoft, except cygwin, and microsoft didn't deserve any better
01:08 activelow; XRevan86: meson requires python... i'll track this and remove it, from the base system
01:08 activelow; if possible
01:09 matey; Meson is the best thing that could've happened to activelow <- why
01:09 matey; (muon noted)
01:10 activelow; and, none of it will be gone: cmake/meson/c++, i only clean up the dependency graph of the base-system
01:10 XRevan86; activelow: First of all, python can be stripped to be more palatable for the base system. Second of all, there are alternative implementations, one of which I already mentioned not once but twice.
01:10 XRevan86; matey: Because it's easy to use and easy to implement.
01:11 XRevan86; A no-nonsense build system, but no, we want ancient trash that is barely maintained because the design is spaghetti.
01:12 activelow; didn't arrive at muon yet... noted
01:12 activelow; given muon is implemented in C... that's ok.
01:14 matey; /me wonders if gnu will hold onto autotools forever or replace it with something more reasonable
01:15 matey; of course reasonable considers things like-- the possibility of compiling on a machine with 1gb of ram
01:15 matey; if most of your packages will, and then the build system precludes this, thats not a great option
01:15 activelow; with the c-only profile, 512MiB will suffice, 1GiB is premium already
01:15 XRevan86; matey: They'll maintain autotools forever, but they might start migrating the GNU software to Meson.
01:16 activelow; and if tinycc succeeds... a single core should do
01:17 activelow; gcc is very slow, g++ is a nightmare, an act of sabotage against free software developers
01:17 XRevan86; Said the person that was okay with autotools just now.
01:17 matey; <activelow> gcc is very slow, g++ is a nightmare, an act of sabotage against free software developers <- im quite certain sabotage is a real thing, but some choices are just stupidity
01:18 matey; "never attribute to malice that which can be adequately" <- this adage wont always be useful in a corporate setting, but it isnt completely obsolete
01:18 activelow; XRevan86: i am saying i cannot remove autotools, nor anyone else could, and meson/muon/cmake/... only added complexity to the dependency graph so far
01:18 matey; how did muon complicate anything?
01:18 XRevan86; Fun fact: in smaller projects that use autotools, they're the slowest part of the build process by far.
01:18 matey; <XRevan86> Fun fact: in smaller projects that use autotools, they're the slowest part of the build process by far. <- this is good to know
01:19 activelow; matey: it is an additional component, which needs testing etc (although the ninja->samurai transition was easy, once noticed samurai exists)
01:19 matey; okay, so "inconclusive" then
01:19 matey; requires more testing could still lead to a better option
01:20 activelow; autotools compile many tests... it is the compilation which is slow... tested autotools with tinycc... alot faster, surprise
01:20 TR News; Links 18/04/2022: GNU Parted 3.5 and Git 2.36 | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/04/18/git-2-36/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/04/18/git-2-36/
01:20 TR Bot; Links 18/04/2022: GNU Parted 3.5 and Git 2.36 | Techrights
01:21 XRevan86; I think I should advocate to activelow that GCC with -O0 is the best kind of GCC.
01:21 TR News; ClownFlare has trashed the World Wide Web and made no money in the process. We now need to eradicate this web-cancer, ASAP.
01:21 activelow; XRevan86: i tried -O0, g++ remains what it is, extremely slow compilation
01:21 XRevan86; That might give GCC a fighting chance in activelow's compiler tests.
01:22 XRevan86; C++ is actually slower to compile than C.
01:22 activelow; the only solution to g++ (and llvm alike), is their complete removal
01:22 XRevan86; There's nothing that can change that.
01:22 XRevan86; Except writing C++ code that avoids exceptions and such.
01:23 activelow; well, gcc c compilation is very slow too in comparison to tinycc, yet i doubt the complexity of c++ allowed for an efficient compiler implementation
01:23 XRevan86; But even that requires at least C++11 because that's when "noexcept" was introduced.
01:23 TR News; Todays #HowTos | #UNIX Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163877
01:23 TR Bot; today's howtos | Tux Machines
01:23 TR News; Todays Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163878
01:23 TR Bot; today's leftovers | Tux Machines
01:24 activelow; no, g++ supported fno-exceptions/fno-rtti with v4.7 already
01:24 activelow; nonetheless, then almost all packages break, because with c++ almost always exceptions are required
01:24 XRevan86; Fair enough, I'm too focused on the standards I guess.
01:26 XRevan86; activelow: Ah, well, naturally.
01:29 activelow; anyway, tomorrow i'll track the GTK2/3 dependency graph and related goodies against c++
01:30 activelow; to my surprise, a powerful *nix workstation software set remains, even when cmake/c++ are removed entirely
01:30 matey; it would be amazing to have a build system / repo that did was activelow is doing but built in as a feature
01:30 matey; s/was/what
01:30 matey; like you could say "show me whats possible without c++" and bam
01:30 activelow; matey, i am fiddling my changeset into the gentoo tree
01:30 matey; yes
01:31 matey; but along a certain profile based on removing c++ as a dep
01:31 matey; i mean something that would let you do this with various profiles
01:31 activelow; gentoo, even supports the cxx flag, yet it isn't recognized against gcc anymore, because since v4.8 gcc _always_ ships a c++ compiler so this isn't tracked by gentoo portage anymore
01:32 matey; gentoo, even supports the cxx flag, yet it isn't recognized against gcc anymore <- this puts up a red flag and even im sceptical gcc would drop support for that
01:32 matey; but id love to know whose idea that was (red hat)
01:32 activelow; it was dicussed on the mailing lists, mainly with arguments to restrict the feature set of c++ being used
01:33 XRevan86; matey: GCC is written in C++ now, so it needs the compiler for itself.
01:33 activelow; yet, the masterminds missed the trivial fact, as soon as any single line of code of c++ resides inside gcc and must be compiled, then a c++ compiler is required
01:34 activelow; and this is neat about gcc-4.7, it offers a c++ compiler, which requires only a C-compiler to bootstrap
01:34 XRevan86; Which in practice is not really an issue, except for some dubious purism.
01:35 activelow; XRevan86: the c++ decision of GCC effectively drilled a nail into the coffin if GNU and free software
01:35 activelow; *of
01:35 XRevan86; The argument cannot even be made for embedded, because no one ships a compiler there.
01:35 activelow; "embedded", a buzzword nowadays, and even then, to my surprise, sdcc was implemented in c++, what a nonsense
01:35 XRevan86; activelow: Where can I inspect that nail and that coffin?
01:36 activelow; XRevan86: gcc website
01:36 activelow; i think it was gcc.gnu.org
01:36 XRevan86; activelow: The world appears to continue spinning.
01:37 activelow; without free software, yes
01:37 XRevan86; And GCC has made a lot of improvements over the years, including its analyser, which made Clang less appealing.
01:37 XRevan86; In GCC 4.8 days Clang actually looked like it's going to take over the Linux world.
01:37 activelow; i do not want no fu**ing C++ inside kernel/compiler/base-system
01:38 activelow; llvm/clang was a c++ monstrosity from the beginning, no thanks
01:38 activelow; llvm isn't an alternative, it's only some other sponsor involved there
01:38 activelow; the alternative is: tinycc or pcc
01:38 XRevan86; activelow: Write a complaint to Sportlotto
01:39 XRevan86; (Soviet version of /dev/null)
01:40 activelow; there was lengthy discussions about rust inside kernel, missing again the trivial fact, it's already there, dressed up as GCC-5.X since recently
01:40 XRevan86; activelow: Distinguish your wants with the free software needs.
01:41 activelow; c++ is a demarcation line, of what can be considered free software and what can't be
01:41 XRevan86; Said one person.
01:41 matey; <XRevan86> The argument cannot even be made for embedded, because no one ships a compiler there. <- this is circular, isnt it?
01:41 activelow; and, reminder, GTK2/3 are written in C; the developers even implemented Vala language to avoid c++ there
01:42 activelow; now, what have we got, some years later?
01:42 XRevan86; matey: Not really, because it makes little sense to compile there.
01:42 matey; i mean what hes trying to do is make a self-hosting embedded system
01:42 matey; because it makes little sense to compile there <- so what youre saying is... and please dont let me twist your words, im not interested in doing that
01:42 matey; id like an honest argument on both sides
01:42 XRevan86; activelow: They had their reasons to dislike C++.
01:42 matey; a bullshit argument (even my own) is of no use to me really.
01:43 DaemonFC; Lemonade is offering car insurance now.
01:43 matey; but what youre saying is-- if a reasonable argument can be made to compile on say a pi with 1gb ram...
01:43 DaemonFC; Looks pretty cheap if you pay in full.
01:43 matey; then activelows quest isnt completely stupid
01:43 activelow; btw. i already got such a self-hosting system; except u-boot loader which insists on swig/c++ (can be fixed, no time yet)
01:43 matey; dont get me wrong, some of his decisions are of no use to me, though i dont consider the research a waste
01:43 XRevan86; matey: If embedded is so weak it can't fit G++, it's not going to be productive as a compiling station.
01:44 activelow; and aarch64 kernel requires a c++ compiler currently, until i could implement an aarch64 asm processing backend for tinycc (huge task)
01:44 matey; <XRevan86> matey: If embedded is so weak it can't fit G++, it's not going to be productive as a compiling station. <- this seems like a recipe for endless bloat
01:44 XRevan86; matey: Also *having* G++ is not the same thing as trying to compile Chromium.
01:44 matey; unless of course, g++ is (what youre implying) such a modest requirement. if so... then ok, thats an argument too
01:44 activelow; i can easily use g++ on the cortex a53 here, yet this is a bad choice, on embedded, and everywhere else when _free_ software is desired
01:45 matey; matey: Also *having* G++ is not the same thing as trying to compile Chromium. <-- well no, but i dont know who would conflate those, not even activelow
01:45 activelow; chromiums is _not_ free software
01:45 XRevan86; matey: His quest is stupid even just because weak systems would want optimised code especially.
01:45 matey; <activelow> i can easily use g++ on the cortex a53 here, yet this is a bad choice, on embedded <- why does "embedded" need to self-host then?
01:45 *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has left #techrights
01:45 matey; <XRevan86> matey: His quest is stupid even just because weak systems would want optimised code especially. <- so... law of diminishing returns?
01:45 XRevan86; matey: Optimisations benefit the weaker more than the stronger.
01:46 activelow; matey: _free_ software _always_ _must_ self host on any system it is used
01:46 activelow; otherwise it is not free
01:46 matey; <activelow> matey: _free_ software _always_ _must_ self host on any system it is used <- im not prepared to think thats true in a concrete way
01:46 DaemonFC; "Do all drivers need the Lemonade app on their phone? (Yep!)
01:46 DaemonFC; They do. We use telematics to price our policies fairly, to help with fast claims, provide on-site emergency services, and to calculate your CO emissions so we can plant trees in your name."
01:46 activelow; because a non-self-hosting setup typically implies limitations to freedom
01:46 DaemonFC; Yeah, so it has all the downsides of MetroMile as far as tracking, plus it knows if you're using the phone.
01:46 matey; <activelow> because a non-self-hosting setup typically implies limitations to freedo <- im pretty sure we can come up with a reasonable counter example
01:47 XRevan86; So if I build a binary in one play and copy it to another, it's not free.
01:47 matey; there must be worthwhile systems so modest that it would only make sense to compile on something more powerful
01:47 XRevan86; * in one place
01:47 activelow; matey: then, come on, how many dozens of millions of lines of code does your non-self-hosting setup add to the toxic mix?
01:47 matey; but... on the other side of the coin, llvm is so bloated that even saying its "self hosts" seems a bit cynical
01:47 matey; it self hosts if you invest a fuckload of money, when you could use gcc instead
01:48 DaemonFC; https://nypost.com/2022/02/16/heres-why-used-cars-are-getting-so-expensive/
01:48 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: nypost.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://nypost.com/2022/02/16/heres-why-used-cars-are-getting-so-expensive/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://nypost.com/2022/02/16/heres-why-used-cars-are-getting-so-expensive/
01:48 TR Bot; Heres why used cars are getting so expensive
01:48 matey; <activelow> matey: then, come on, how many dozens of millions of lines of code does your non-self-hosting setup add to the toxic mix <- no, i agree with THAT part, not that the two parts are interdependent really
01:48 DaemonFC; Used cars are going up way faster than new ones.
01:48 activelow; matey: gcc-4.7, not any later anymore
01:48 matey; okay, but...
01:48 DaemonFC; Of course, people see this as the last hoorah for something that was built right.
01:48 XRevan86; Simple truth, again: TinyCC is not capable of compiling well, it can compile quickly but not well.
01:48 DaemonFC; Wait until the government makes them install facial recognition in 2026 to disable the car if it thinks you're tired or drunk.
01:48 DaemonFC; How much does that cost?
01:48 DaemonFC; schestowitz-TR, ^
01:48 matey; i still see your system as performance art and research, rather than something that people are likely to use
01:49 matey; and i think its got great potential-- i made a programming language for RHETORICAL purposes
01:49 XRevan86; s/are likely to/would ever/
01:49 matey; this seems like a rhetorical distro
01:49 DaemonFC; That picture is odd.
01:50 DaemonFC; I didn't know there was a lot's worth of 2008 Minis that still ran in all of America.
01:50 matey; TinyCC is not capable of compiling well, it can compile quickly but not well. <- activelow is one of three people interested in having tinycc as an option
01:50 DaemonFC; Much less on the same lot at the same time.
01:50 matey; three people in this channel, that is
01:50 DaemonFC; And $22,000 is $22,000 more than any Mini is worth.
01:50 DaemonFC; MinceR, ^
01:50 XRevan86; matey: As I said before, he's more than welcome to try to fix TinyCC.
01:50 matey; as an option, not necessarily as a preferred option. just a possible one.
01:50 matey; i dont think he considers it broken for his needs
01:51 XRevan86; matey: In this channel, who are the other two?
01:51 matey; and as long as there are other options, he wouldnt need to fix it if its not broken for his needs
01:51 matey; <XRevan86> matey: In this channel, who are the other two? <- myself (for now) and one ill leave out (except to count them)
01:51 matey; im sure they dont want to get wrapped up in this
01:51 matey; but you can spot them if you look
01:52 matey; note that none of this would likely make us use baphometos of course
01:52 XRevan86; matey: His needs could include a COBOL compiler, that wouldn't make it any more suited to compile real C code.
01:52 activelow; concerning TinyCC, first i'll dump the entire package set into it, and collect a list of what's broken (which i know some already)
01:52 activelow; at bare minimum, everything compiles, and executes flawlessly
01:52 activelow; furthermore, tinycc does slightly optimize close to -O1, which is, good enough
01:52 matey; if the definition of "real c code" changes, im not sure its fair to ask every compiler to follow suit
01:53 activelow; because the tradeoff is _perfect_, 10x faster compilation, slightly slowler execution speed
01:53 matey; it depends what you mean by "real c code"-- from what activelow is doing, it sounds like he has a pretty large subset of "real c code" that compiles with tinycc
01:53 matey; unless hes fooling himself
01:53 DaemonFC; https://nypost.com/2022/04/18/harness-on-orlando-ride-was-adjusted-before-tyre-samsons-death/
01:53 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: nypost.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://nypost.com/2022/04/18/harness-on-orlando-ride-was-adjusted-before-tyre-samsons-death/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://nypost.com/2022/04/18/harness-on-orlando-ride-was-adjusted-before-tyre-samsons-death/
01:53 TR Bot; Harness on Orlando ride was adjusted before Tyre Samson's death
01:53 DaemonFC; The ride has a 300 pound weight limit and they couldn't tell THIS was too big to get on the ride.
01:53 activelow; furthermore, processing of big data is limited by memory i/o, less dependant on highly optimizing compilers than "benchmarks" imply
01:54 matey; <DaemonFC> The ride has a 300 pound weight limit <- those arent suggestions
01:54 DaemonFC; No they aren't.
01:54 matey; i mean the engineers do provide
01:54 activelow; yes matey, there is an extensive test case available, i am certain passes gcc-4.7 C-only
01:54 matey; SOME leeway, but they dont put that leeway in the spec (for good reason imo)
01:54 XRevan86; I can make a synthetic test that will freeze up tinycc compiled binaries completely while GCC would crunch it easily.
01:54 DaemonFC; A good engineer is a little conservative, at least on paper.
01:54 DaemonFC; But this guy was obviously way over.
01:54 matey; <XRevan86> I can make a synthetic test that will freeze up tinycc compiled binaries completely while GCC would crunch it easily. <- proving what exactly?
01:54 activelow; and, this system is rather useful already, given this irc box is already using the c-only profile
01:55 matey; that gcc can compile hypoethetically useful code better?
01:55 XRevan86; matey: Not necessarily fair, but that "slightly" is not a fair assessment either.
01:55 matey; im sure that in practical terms, activelows requirements are nuts
01:55 matey; im fairly convinced thats a great place to start though
01:55 XRevan86; matey: Yes, that real code can be *significantly* slower with tinycc.
01:56 matey; but we know that already, it doesnt tell us anythign we dont already know
01:56 DaemonFC; I like to try to keep things within the specified tolerances of the engineers.
01:56 DaemonFC; Maybe do them a little better.
01:56 *DaemonFC has quit (Quit: Leaving)
01:56 activelow; furthermore, i am targetting a _clean_ base system, which i am already using to bootstrap any later GCC version for example, or c++ stuff, _outside_ the base system
01:56 XRevan86; matey: I think I said this before: there's one person that disagrees with you here.
01:57 activelow; i want to keep clean the base system
01:57 *DaemonFC (~daemonfc@wkhuexd2esqpc.irc) has joined #techrights
01:57 activelow; and, tinycc is known it can bootstrap gcc-4.7 (x86_64); a voila
01:57 activelow; because, gnu guix couldn't bootstrap anymore since gcc-2.8/egcs
01:58 activelow; which is hitting another show-stopper, of what went wrong, with GNU
01:58 DaemonFC; I actually do run better fluids in my car than the engineers call for.
01:58 matey; /me has about as much interest in guix as macos
01:58 matey; actually less, but with both its close to 0
01:58 DaemonFC; I had them replace the DOT 3 brake fluid with DOT 4 while they were flushing it out anyway today.
01:58 DaemonFC; Might as well.
01:58 DaemonFC; They're compatible, so it won't like, destroy anything if there was a little DOT 3 left in there.
01:59 activelow; i am not interested in guix itself, i am only interested in the bootstrapping procedure which guix implemented for GCC-2.7 (LONG time ago, and broken since gcc-2.8)
01:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 40.03 k/sec., IPFS upstream 46.80 average k/sec., average swarm size 414.98
01:59 matey; macos being non-free is of no use to me, though darwin is at least hypothetically interesting (has been for years)
01:59 matey; (not likely to become more than hypothetically interesting soon)
01:59 matey; i am not interested in guix itself, i am only interested in the bootstrapping procedure which guix implemented for GCC-2.7 (LONG time ago, and broken since gcc-2.8) <- fair enough
02:00 matey; <XRevan86> matey: I think I said this before: there's one person that disagrees with you here. <- and im still interested in your arguments. an echo chamber would be a REALLY stupid thing to have on this
02:00 XRevan86; matey: Darwin is pretty uninteresting in my opinion.
02:00 XRevan86; matey: I meant activelow.
02:00 matey; <XRevan86> matey: Darwin is pretty uninteresting in my opinion. <- its mentioned for purely rhetorical reasons
02:00 matey; I meant activelow. <- no problem
02:00 matey; either way, no problem
02:00 XRevan86; matey: That he clearly takes this very seriously.
02:01 matey; well, i think theres an element of obsession to this
02:01 matey; but you could say the same for rms or even the wright brothers (not to put him in the same category per se)
02:02 matey; just that obsession isnt always a bad thing (it can uh... have side effects obviously-- and lead someone away from a reasonable answer sometimes)
02:02 matey; sometimes, but not always
02:02 DaemonFC; 40 microfiber towels.... :/
02:02 matey; but the counterpoint is useful
02:02 XRevan86; matey: Some people fight oppressors, some people fight windmills. One can say they have a thing in common.
02:02 DaemonFC; I didn't want that many, but it was almost the same price as 10...
02:02 matey; matey: Some people fight oppressors, some people fight windmills. One can say they have a thing in common. <- but theres a nuance
02:03 XRevan86; matey: Yes there is :)
02:03 DaemonFC; Oh well. I can just use as many as I need I guess. I found some waterless car wash.
02:03 matey; in tech i think tilting at windmills can be good sometimes
02:03 matey; it really depends on the windmill
02:03 DaemonFC; Half the year I can do my own in the parking lot with that, then for a few months when there's salt and stuff, I can switch to a car wash subscription.
02:03 matey; for example, my windmill moved me from gnu to openbsd
02:04 matey; farther from ibm (though i think llvm is a mistake)
02:04 matey; from bash to ksh (which for my purposes, even practical use, is an upgrade)
02:04 matey; from leafpad to my own editor which is WAY more useful than leafpad
02:04 matey; these are practical benefits of my windmill
02:05 matey; so far im pleased with not only the work im doing, but where it has led
02:05 matey; the point being--
02:05 matey; on the surface, im sure the work im doing looks JUST AS nutty as what activelow is doing
02:05 matey; and so, credit where credit is due (imo)
02:05 matey; i can see his work being useful... as a starting point for something less windmill-ish
02:06 XRevan86; matey: No, it can be argued against but definitely not JUST AS.
02:06 matey; how familiar are you with what im doing though?
02:06 activelow; matey: OpenBSD were the first to re-consider a sane compiler, PCC
02:06 matey; im not asking to toot my own horn, the whole argument hinges on it
02:06 activelow; hence my surprise, when they switched to llvm/clang
02:06 XRevan86; matey: At least there's a text editor as output of this? :)
02:07 matey; in fact theres little incentive to toot my own horn when people are more likely to throw tomatoes than roses
02:07 matey; <XRevan86> matey: At least there's a text editor as output of this? :) LOL
02:07 matey; fair enough!
02:07 matey; /me laughs
02:07 matey; but seriously, i can see an outcome to activelows windmill
02:07 matey; i really can
02:07 *XRevan86 can't.
02:08 matey; well i think your take on it is a bit more cynical, but also useful.
02:08 matey; his work NEEDS a counterpooint
02:08 activelow; although, OpenBSD compilation with PCC wasn't maintained since 2007 anymore, tinycc was more actively maintained
02:08 matey; i actually seek counterpoints to my own work, but i do it as stealthily as possible to focus on opinions i trust and not get bothered by trolls
02:08 XRevan86; I see it as another TempleOS, that thing only has exotic value.
02:08 matey; opinions i trust, even if i dont agree.
02:09 matey; that thing only has exotic value. <- i dont think its nearly as nutty as that
02:09 matey; almost nothing is
02:09 matey; templeos was purely insane
02:09 matey; unless someday we find it contacts benevolent aliens or something. then im happy to say i was wrong.
02:09 matey; if it saves humanity, then ok, point for templeos
02:09 XRevan86; matey: It won't.
02:09 matey; yeah im pretty sure too
02:11 XRevan86; matey: This tries to solve a non-problem and goes to great lengths for it.
02:11 XRevan86; I dislike that.
02:11 XRevan86; It's too disproportionate, how ye say, obsessive.
02:13 activelow; terry used his templeos together with an Ubuntu
02:14 activelow; what my system replaces is the ubuntu part, in the realm of templeos i am aiming for z80/gigatron
02:14 activelow; and gigatron is the real temple
02:14 XRevan86; matey: Well, that answers that.
02:15 activelow; and tinycc is the holy-c compiler equivalent
02:15 XRevan86; activelow: Is gigatron a German word?
02:16 activelow; XRevan86: it's dutch-made
02:16 activelow; and otherwise, i am nowhere near the intellect of terry
02:17 matey; <XRevan86> matey: Well, that answers that. <- \_()_/
02:17 matey; /me cant do the face part
02:17 matey; it doesnt render here at all
02:18 matey; <XRevan86> It's too disproportionate, how ye say, obsessive <- as long as we are on the subject
02:18 matey; and i realise its apples vs orchards...
02:18 matey; but why "ye"? i mean, people still say "ya" and it means the same
02:19 matey; im not suggesting an update, only curious
02:19 matey; theres obviously some reason you do it
02:19 *psydruid (~psydruid@jevhxkzmtrbww.irc) has joined #techrights
02:20 matey; today we are challenging activelows project entirely
02:20 matey; or close enough
02:20 XRevan86; matey: A bit of a challenge for myself, to make sure I can easily differentiate subjects from objects on the fly. Which I can :).
02:20 matey; for now
02:20 XRevan86; matey: Incidentally, it's grammatically correct albeit old-fashioned.
02:20 matey; alright
02:21 matey; that doesnt surprise me
02:21 XRevan86; ("what say ye", "hear ye, hear ye" are proper examples of the pronoun)
02:21 DaemonFC; schestowitz-TR, Blogging about the Chevy showroom.
02:21 DaemonFC; "I noticed several things right off the bat. The paint quality looks terrible on most of the cars, the interior is usually cheap plastic. There's absolutely nothing upscale about any of this. It doesn't feel premium. It feels like a cheap KIA, but the cheapest new Chevy I saw there (a base model Equinox SUV, made in Mexico.....bet that'll last) was nearly $30,000, and might be north of $30,000 by the time taxes and dealer nonsense gets added on."
02:21 matey; but as a choice?
02:21 DaemonFC; "The average was about $45,000 for a new vehicle, and the nicer ones, the trucks of course, were $50,000-$60,000. But the window sticker that said that the $60,000 Chevy Silverado was made in Mexico (LOL) also said that GM removed the heated seats.....but there's still a button that doesn't do anything...for the driver and the passenger."
02:21 DaemonFC; "And they compensate you....$50, for its removal."
02:22 matey; i mean there must be some reason you favour it
02:22 *bnchs has quit (Quit: Leaving)
02:23 XRevan86; matey: Don't really know, I guess it's because I dislike that English as a whole goes the entirely opposite direction :)
02:24 XRevan86; The strict word order allows English speakers to confuse the pronoun cases entirely.
02:25 matey; so theres an argument for better accuracy / less ambiguiity?
02:25 activelow; anyway, baphos isn't any arbitrary distro, it is the last one remaining free; there isn't any other maintained to my knowledge (except aboriginal until 2016)
02:26 matey; it is the last one remaining free <- of course it always depends on how free is defined
02:26 XRevan86; matey: So nothing much, just a manifestation of my view on languages. I might stop doing that if I decide that causes me to stick out too much.
02:26 matey; i mean if youre going to claim somethins is free, it helps to say why its "more" free or "less" free (i have to do the same, and do)
02:26 activelow; it was explained in detail already
02:26 matey; if I decide that causes me to stick out too much. <- it sticks out like a sore thumb, however i have an eye for tiny details
02:26 matey; other people may already see it as "you" when they read you
02:27 activelow; and here is the other good news: i doubt any other project could catch up anymore with baphometOS
02:27 matey; <activelow> it was explained in detail already <- not disputed, only that to say its "more free" always depends on the definition of free
02:27 activelow; for either political or technical reasons
02:27 XRevan86; Alpine and Void are the only free distributions, because only musl distributions are free per musl-oriented definition of freedom.
02:27 activelow; projects such as debian/fedora/etc simply can't rollback to a sane state
02:27 XRevan86; Or maybe Alpine and Void are not free because glibc is the only free option?
02:27 matey; <activelow> projects such as debian/fedora/etc simply can't rollback to a sane state <- i dont agree, i only agree that they WONT do that.
02:27 matey; not that they cant
02:28 matey; for most purposes its the same thing.
02:28 activelow; XRevan86: alpine is among the ones i had considered, yet i doubt alpine will succed with a no-c++/gcc-4.7/tcc profile
02:28 DaemonFC; "The inventory at the Chevrolet dealer was maybe 5-8% of normal, most of the lot was empty. To disguise the fact that there were so few new vehicles to choose from, they parked the trucks sideways so that they would take up three parking spots. Just like their owners. Maybe it's just good client management. I don't know. Maybe they can paint handicapped signs on the parking spots as a form of suggestive selling."
02:28 XRevan86; activelow: Naturally, but might as well redefine freedom to fit it :)
02:28 activelow; and even if, how much time would alpine devs need, to roll-back to gcc-4.7/no-c++ at least?
02:29 activelow; and even if, they won't for other reasons
02:29 matey; it sticks out like a sore thumb, however i have an eye for tiny details <- i make glaring typos more often than you say "ye" so...
02:29 matey; in this channel at least, it might be a non-issue
02:29 matey; (im not the only one)
02:30 activelow; debian/fedora/and the other big ones are a lost cause, who got the manpower and funding, but cannot do it, for political reasons
02:30 matey; but might as well redefine freedom <- in fairness, there are a lot of people in the world who do just that... and some who can even justify doing so
02:30 matey; but there is an indisputable subjectivity to it
02:30 matey; and probably unavoidable
02:30 activelow; *BSD switched to llvm/clang, good luck with that, youre kernels are rustified, with a c++ compiler, what a glory
02:30 XRevan86; matey: I have reasons to want discretion, but I feel like it's too late for that, as I grew up in a more free society and have made too many mistakes in the past.
02:31 matey; matey: I have reasons to want discretion <- then id advice not using "ye" in any writings tied to your real identity
02:31 matey; another typo
02:31 matey; advise
02:32 XRevan86; matey: Every writing is tied to my real identity.
02:32 matey; then theres no problem with ye
02:32 AltLink_c52c; New Issue | Boost and get 1 BTC today! | https://framagit.org/dCF/deCloudflare/-/issues/33
02:32 TR Bot; Boost and get 1 BTC today! (#33) Issues Crimeflare / deCloudflare GitLab
02:32 matey; at least in that context
02:32 XRevan86; Right, so basically it's too late for me.
02:33 matey; one side effect of using "ye" is that since its mostly associated with "pirate talk" in modern times
02:33 matey; some people who notice you using it MIGHT start to think you sound like a pirate when you speak
02:33 matey; it depends on usage though. if you say "hear ye hear ye" then it sounds like old fashioned english
02:33 matey; if you say "ye" in almost any other context, it sounds more like pirate
02:34 XRevan86; yarr
02:34 XRevan86; scurvy
02:34 matey; yarr interestingly enough, is an indian word meaning "friend"
02:34 matey; so its used in india (not just by pirates)
02:35 matey; later i will try to imagine what a pirate would sound like if they were from india, but i really should put russell peters in charge of that
02:35 matey; "can you imagine what pirates would sound like if they were from india?"
02:35 matey; he could do it, if anyone could
02:36 matey; everyone from everywhere loves his accents (chinese fans always tell him what a great impression he does of chinese accents, for one example)
02:36 matey; hes canadian, but of indian descent
02:36 matey; so he starts with asian accents (including indian) but then moves to stories about the african guy in the casino named !XOBle
02:37 TR News; Yesterday's #boycottnovell-social and #techpol IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-social-180422.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-social-180422.txt GEMINI GemText: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/irc-gmi/irc-log-social-180422.gmi GEMINI Plain Text: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-social-180422.txt
02:37 TR Bot; IRC: #boycottnovell-social and #techpol @ Techrights IRC Network: Monday, April 18, 2022
02:37 XRevan86; It's funny that when I make a fake Russian accent no one can tell.
02:37 matey; nyessur ekaf!
02:38 TR News; Yesterday's #techrights IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-180422.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techrights-180422.txt GEMINI GemText: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/irc-gmi/irc-log-techrights-180422.gmi GEMINI Plain Text: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-techrights-180422.txt
02:38 TR Bot; IRC: #techrights @ Techrights IRC Network: Monday, April 18, 2022
02:38 matey; russell peters actually does a bit about russian where he walks backwards while talking
02:39 TR News; Yesterday's #boycottnovell IRC logs ready. HTML: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-180422.html TEXT: http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-180422.txt GEMINI GemText: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/irc-gmi/irc-log-180422.gmi GEMINI Plain Text: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-180422.txt
02:39 TR Bot; IRC: #boycottnovell @ Techrights IRC Network: Monday, April 18, 2022
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02:40 TR Bot; IRC: #techbytes @ Techrights IRC Network: Monday, April 18, 2022
02:41 TR News; Yesterday's bulletin is now ready! : http://techrights.org/txt-archives/techrights-2022-04-18.txt | gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/techrights-2022-04-18.txt (tentative address, to work an hour from now)
02:44 *includeals has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
02:44 matey; i was complimented on my morgan freeman impression and my impression of !XOBle by an ex who is actually from africa
02:44 matey; these are not easy impressions and im not terribly confident about them in the first place, but that was nice
02:44 MinceR; :>
02:44 matey; ironically, doing them here could get me lynched
02:45 matey; for EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE reason as... ah well
02:45 matey; people just want to fuck with people. if they dont think of a good reason theyll use a shitty one
02:46 matey; i watched videos from BOTH lieplanets this year
02:46 MinceR; and that's why we can't have nice things
02:47 matey; <MinceR> and that's why we can't have nice things <- sure you can, but only with armed guards
02:47 MinceR; :>
02:47 matey; which i recommend
02:47 matey; in fact i was pretty neutral on the gun issue as a libertarian
02:47 matey; like, whatever
02:48 matey; but if you want socialism, theres simply no avoiding it whatsoever. everyone has to be armed
02:48 matey; as a bonus, it makes elections more honest :) i mean, when EVERYBODY is the crazy one, the REAL crazy ones think twice
02:49 matey; if everybody was armed that whole farce with the guy with the horns wouldnt have happened
02:49 matey; zip ties? try VESTS!
02:50 matey; but its not only for defending your life, its for defending your rights
02:50 XRevan86; matey: For some reason in countries where democratic institutions work better the social demand for guns is lower.
02:50 matey; matey: For some reason in countries where democratic institutions work better the social demand for guns is lower. <- here you have to define democracy
02:50 matey; and this is the reason why: its not because my definition is exotic compared to yours.
02:51 matey; its because everyone is really offering a SUBSET of democracy
02:51 matey; and those subsets TEND TO favour takeover by capitalists
02:51 matey; in the long run. in the short run, good luck to you sweden
02:51 matey; id say good luck eu, but i might as well say "good luck santa claus"
02:51 XRevan86; matey: I used the word "institutions" specifically to point out that democracy is defined by how well the government is capable to adapt to its people.
02:51 matey; thats fair of course
02:52 *includeals (~includeal@a89-153-106-143.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #techrights
02:52 XRevan86; When people trust the process, it usually means that the process gives results.
02:53 matey; there im sceptical
02:53 matey; a lot of people trust blatant and obvious liars
02:53 matey; for me to make the statement it would have to be "when people CAN trust the process"
02:53 matey; and that changes a heck of a lot
02:53 XRevan86; matey: In Russia I see some weird shit: people don't trust the process, but they'll also die on its hill.
02:53 matey; i think MOST democracy is a farce. not the idea, the implementation
02:54 matey; somehow i think if everyone is armed it will be the other way.
02:54 *u-amarsh04 (~amarsh04@v6xmmrhxmbafc.irc) has joined #techrights
02:54 XRevan86; Conservatives in the US are a lot like that as well.
02:54 matey; people don't trust the process, but they'll also die on its hill. <- yeah thats not for me
02:54 matey; in the usa, democracy is a veil over capitalists running the country
02:54 matey; and little else
02:54 *techrights-ipfs-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)
02:54 XRevan86; matey: Like conservatives in the US will bash the police but they'll also support the police
02:55 MinceR; 19 035008 < XRevan86> matey: For some reason in countries where democratic institutions work better the social demand for guns is lower.
02:55 MinceR; they never work well enough to make guns unnecessary
02:55 XRevan86; matey: But the first part is still there: even they don't trust the process.
02:55 matey; also, the "low social demand for guns" doesnt seem to extend to all the freakin wars that the country finds itself in
02:55 matey; if you want to, like mincer, get rid of the state-- SOMEONE has to be armed
02:56 matey; if the state doesnt exist, then the people have that job.
02:56 matey; but if the people have that job, what do you need a state for?
02:56 matey; running the country? the people have that job too.
02:56 MinceR; indeed
02:56 MinceR; also, the state is doing a piss-poor job everywhere
02:56 matey; no it does a great job of wasting shit and killing people
02:56 XRevan86; matey: I don't see a stateless society working just yet.
02:57 matey; matey: I don't see a stateless society working just yet. <- its completely impossible at first
02:57 matey; actually literally impossible
02:57 matey; at first
02:57 MinceR; i don't see a stateful society working either
02:57 matey; i don't see a stateful society working either <- it never will
02:57 matey; which is why a transition to a stateless society is the only reasonable option
02:57 XRevan86; I'm currently at a point when I want a basic civil society.
02:57 matey; it all depends on how you transition
02:57 MinceR; and you'll never have it
02:58 MinceR; humans are incapable of it
02:58 matey; <XRevan86> I'm currently at a point when I want a basic civil society. <- yes, thats what any sany person want
02:58 matey; <MinceR> humans are incapable of it <- not in practice
02:58 MinceR; sane people are rare
02:58 matey; to be fair, when we find sane people we tend to kill them and take their shit
02:58 matey; but they arent gone yet
02:59 matey; they just live in very low numbers
02:59 XRevan86; I don't care if libertarian, I don't care if communist, I want basic civil shit.
02:59 matey; <XRevan86> I don't care if libertarian, I don't care if communist, I want basic civil shit <- i have good news
02:59 matey; you can definitely have basic civil shit with AT LEAST ONE of those
03:00 matey; and by definitely i mean definitely with the level of confidence that people had about using fission to power cities.
03:00 XRevan86; What I mean is that politics on this level are not relevant to me.
03:00 matey; which was not enormous.
03:00 matey; <XRevan86> What I mean is that politics on this level are not relevant to me. <- you just want the outcome
03:01 matey; its funny how much society works that way
03:01 XRevan86; I'm siding with the basic civil shit faction.
03:01 DaemonFC; The brake pads and rotors on the Buick all appear to have been replaced about 9,000 miles ago.
03:01 matey; "i want cake" "heres the ingredients and a kitchen" "what the is this"
03:01 matey; the fuck
03:01 DaemonFC; Well, at least there's that.
03:01 DaemonFC; For something stupid easy like that you'd be crazy to go to the dealer.
03:02 matey; <XRevan86> I'm siding with the basic civil shit faction. <- theres a good side to this of course
03:02 DaemonFC; Any muffler shop ought to be able to do it for less.
03:02 matey; anyone who can actually deliver, will have your support at least
03:02 XRevan86; matey: That they will.
03:10 *techrights-ipfs-bot (~techrights-ipfs-bot@s44cwn8sugddy.irc) has joined #techrights
03:10 IPFS; Gemini requests since start of month: 216857 total Total number of pages in capsule: 40223 Active: active (running) since Mon 2022-02-07 16:50:38 GMT; 2 months 9 days ago
03:10 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 20.41 k/sec., IPFS upstream 42.66 average k/sec., average swarm size 295.15
03:11 IPFS; IPFS local node stats (bandwidth since last reset) calculated. TotalIn: 4.9 GB TotalOut: 1.0 GB
03:12 IPFS; New daily bulletin is now being generated and assembled.
03:14 IPFS; QmSfKUr8nYNDDrrEjYSKeMg1rgZ73NY8Da3ikHMwy9QdiT
03:14 IPFS; New daily bulletin has just been added to IPFS, hereon retrievable with the CID above.
03:50 DaemonFC; https://www.13wmaz.com/article/news/verify/money-verify/no-gas-vehicles-not-cheaper-than-electric-to-drive/536-7c3971c1-fd77-4c1f-96bd-8f3e27b39028
03:50 TR Bot; vehicles cheaper than gas to drive | 13wmaz.com
03:50 DaemonFC; 'VERIFY found that it costs about 17 cents to drive one mile in an average gas-powered vehicle versus roughly 5 cents to drive one mile in an electric vehicle."
03:50 DaemonFC; Yeah, until your $5,000 battery breaks down and needs replaced.
03:50 DaemonFC; Some hybrids start blowing main fuses as the battery ages.
03:51 DaemonFC; And if it's out of warranty, you have to replace that, then the battery.
03:51 DaemonFC; Or the entire car.
03:51 matey; how much are the fuses?
03:52 matey; /me assumes the purpose of the fuses blowing is to prevent an explosion
03:52 matey; yay fuses
03:52 DaemonFC; Yeah, so Kia shoves a bigger fuse in there.
03:52 DaemonFC; And says there's your free warranty repair. :)
03:52 matey; of course we could compare them to light bubls, but light bulbs arent designed to prevent explosions per se
03:53 matey; so Kia shoves a bigger fuse in there. <- dont buy kia?
03:53 matey; though i see your point
03:54 DaemonFC; "
03:54 DaemonFC; Additionally, prolonged use of fast-charging stations can have a negative impact on an electric vehicles battery capacity. Engineers at the University of California, Riverside found that high temperatures and resistance from fast charging at commercial stations can cause cracks and leaks, the Institution of Mechanical Engineers reported in 2020.
03:54 DaemonFC; "
03:54 DaemonFC; LOL
03:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 20.46 k/sec., IPFS upstream 31.53 average k/sec., average swarm size 328.53
04:01 *u-amarsh04 has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
04:05 matey; "Engineers at the University of California, Riverside" <- it would be california
04:05 matey; but this makes me wonder if fast chargers shorten the life of phone batteries too
04:19 matey; www.howtogeek.com/786516/is-fast-charging-your-smartphone-bad-for-its-battery/ Fast charging may shorten the battery's lifespan compared to using a standard charger. Most studies looking at the heat generated by fast-charging lithium-ion cells are focused on electric vehicle batteries
04:19 matey; www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/does-fast-charging-affect-battery-life-6-phone-battery-questions-answered/ Fast charging won't damage your battery A conventional charger has an output of 5 to 10 watts. A faster charger can improve that by up to eight times. <- cnet, so it must be true
04:19 matey; www.quora.com/Does-fast-charging-shorten-the-lifespan-of-your-phone?share=1 Answer (1 of 7): Does fast charging shorten the lifespan of your phone? Independent research says no it will not but when it comes to charging our beloved smartphones there are more myths than actual facts
04:20 matey; get two phones and compare!
04:20 matey; maybe for long time
04:21 matey; and have two phone numbers, and keep switching back and forth, and make your friends think youve gone crazy
04:21 DaemonFC; https://www.pcmag.com/news/duckduckgo-removes-piracy-related-sites-youtube-ripping-tools?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook
04:21 TR Bot; Issue Affects DuckDuckGo Results for Piracy Sites, YouTube Rippers | PCMag
04:21 matey; microsoft: okay you can keep youtube-dl on github, for now-- ill just remove it from searches instead!
04:32 *DaemonFC has quit (Quit: Leaving)
04:53 matey; http://kbd-project.org/
04:53 TR Bot; KBD Linux keyboard tools.
04:53 matey; The latest stable version of kbd can always be found on:
04:53 matey; https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kbd/
04:53 TR Bot; Index of /pub/linux/utils/kbd/
04:53 matey; https://github.com/legionus/kbd/releases
04:53 TR Bot; legionus/kbd GitHub
04:53 matey; (this is the part of "linux" that includes chvt)
04:54 matey; there is code that does what chvt does for (free)bsd, but its written by werner koch
04:54 matey; except for gnupg i try to avoid anything written by werner koch
04:56 matey; i havent used chvt in more than a year, but i do like having it
04:56 matey; the real point here, is kbd though
04:57 matey; its part of the linux kernel (or at least, part of the kernel.org git) AND its developed partly on github
04:57 matey; its not just a mirror
04:57 matey; this is not the only such example, its the first one ive noted in a year though
04:58 matey; the kernel, like gnu, is (still) drifting CLOSER to, not FARTHER from, github
04:59 matey; at least it doesnt do this quickly, and roy of course will always say github will collapse, github will collapse
04:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 23.01 k/sec., IPFS upstream 34.93 average k/sec., average swarm size 500.48
04:59 matey; all the same, the kernel is not get farther from github, its getting closer to it
05:00 matey; bug reporting says:
05:00 matey; fron page of http://kbd-project.org/
05:00 matey; If you think that github is the future, then use it: https://github.com/legionus/kbd/issues
05:00 TR Bot; legionus/kbd GitHub
05:01 matey; i dont know if the intent of this phrasing is "help us promote github as the way to do this" or "stop whinging about us not relying on github in the mailing list, use it if you want"
05:01 matey; in fairness it could be either one
05:01 matey; either way, some of the development happens using kernel.org git, some happens via proprietary github
05:02 matey; theyre absolutely making the kernel less free, its only a question of how much
05:02 matey; which is still a relevant question
05:03 matey; "The kbd project contains utilities for managing Linux console (Linux console, virtual terminals, keyboard, etc.) mainly, what they do is loading console fonts and keyboard maps. The utilities use kernel interfaces to load the keymap."
05:04 matey; https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/legion/kbd.git
05:04 TR Bot; kernel/git/legion/kbd.git - Linux keyboard tools
05:06 matey; from https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/legion/kbd.git:
05:06 matey; 2022-03-21 Update github actions Alexey Gladkov 1 -3/+8
05:06 matey; lol
05:08 matey; https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/legion/kbd.git/tree/.github/workflows/ci.yml
05:08 TR Bot; ci.yml workflows .github - kernel/git/legion/kbd.git - Linux keyboard tools
05:08 activelow; wasn't bitkeeper worse than git?
05:09 matey; this isnt about git, its about a proprietary frontend to git
05:09 activelow; since git itself, is free, bitkeeper wasn't at all;
05:09 matey; my only gripe with git is that its tied (somehow) to sfc
05:09 activelow; sure, github is utilizing git with their web-frontend
05:09 activelow; sfc?
05:09 matey; sure, github is utilizing git <- this isnt about git
05:10 matey; its about github
05:10 matey; the fact that git is better than bitkeeper has nothing to do with anything
05:10 matey; because this isnt about git
05:10 matey; sfc? <- kuhn, sandler etc
05:11 matey; software freedom conservancy
05:11 matey; or as at least one person has called it "software servancy con"
05:11 activelow; of cause it is related, because the utility, git itself, is not coupled to github; git clone, and push elsewhere, and the proprietary concern is mostly void
05:11 matey; because the utility, git itself, is not coupled to github <- that is EXACTLY why this isnt about git
05:11 matey; git is not the problem im talking about
05:12 matey; github is
05:12 matey; the fact that git isnt the problem has no bearing on whether github is a problem
05:12 activelow; i know, and the github problem can be solved, partially, with git-clone and git-push elsewhere; that's very liberal
05:12 activelow; currently
05:12 matey; the github problem can be solved, partially, with git-clone and git-push elsewhere; that's very liberal <- part of it can
05:13 matey; if people are hosting without github, then using some other git is a solution
05:13 activelow; and maybe, since i had to suffer from merant pvcs and perforce and subversion and cvs and and and.... that's why i am not that hysterical about git _and_ github, not yet
05:13 matey; but it doesnt solve the fact that people are using github.
05:14 activelow; and, free web frontends exist, to host webgit, cgit etc.; this solves the problem of github web frontend being proprietary
05:14 matey; this solves the problem of github web frontend being proprietary <- no it doesnt
05:14 matey; its like saying that not smoking solves the problem of smoking
05:14 activelow; because, currently, migrating any repository elsewhere, although it isn't trivial, it is relatively easy, in comparison to what i had seen before
05:14 matey; not smoking is good
05:14 TR News; #Techrights Bulletin for Monday, April 18, 2022 http://techrights.org/txt full archive: http://techrights.org/txt-archives #gnu #linux #freesw #plaintext
05:14 TR Bot; Bulletin Archives
05:15 matey; but smoking itself is still as much as problem as before
05:15 TR News; #Techrights full #IPFS index updated just now http://techrights.org/ipfs available as plain text @ http://techrights.org/ipfs/txt #dweb #sharing
05:15 TR Bot; Techrights Full IPFS Index
05:15 matey; if you stop smoking, its still just as bad for the people who still do.
05:15 matey; so it does solve YOUR problem, just not THE problem
05:15 matey; or as should be the /topic by now "theres a nuance"
05:16 activelow; it isn't like smoking, because, some git web hosting is necessary for free software
05:16 activelow; and i had seen far worse than git/github
05:16 matey; in that regard, yes, its not like smoking
05:16 activelow; git and github are an improvement, upon the situation before, doesn't mean it could become worse with github
05:16 matey; in the fact that too many people are still killing themselves (or their projects) that way, and that there are secondhand problems, its A LOT like smoking
05:17 matey; git and github are an improvement, upon the situation before <- god no!
05:17 matey; before, people hosted their own, with either proprietary or free software
05:17 MinceR; git is an improvement, github isn't
05:17 matey; ther were free options before. bitkeeper was non-free but mostly affected the kernel
05:17 matey; but NOW its worse, because MORE people are using non-free, not less
05:17 activelow; in comparison to what? perforce, merant pvcs, microsoft teamforce (or however it was called)?
05:17 matey; and HYPOTHETICALLY they have the option but THE PROBLEM IS theyre not using it!
05:18 TR News; "For a cluster (in any sense of the word), you need at least 3 nodes, otherwise there is no quorum" https://raymii.org/s/tutorials/Proxmox_VE_7_Corosync_QDevice_in_Docker.html | Source: Remy Van Elst
05:18 TR Bot; VE 7 Corosync QDevice in a Docker container - Raymii.org
05:18 matey; youre making the same stupid mistake as the fsf-- conflating potentially free with free
05:18 TR News; "When you typed blog.bithole.dev into your browser, it sent a request addressed towards my server at 142.93.26.121, which replied with this blogpost." https://blog.bithole.dev/dns.html |
05:18 TR Bot; The Domain Name System (6/6)
05:18 activelow; matey, what would the alternative to github be?
05:18 matey; matey, what would the alternative to github be? <- there are more alternatives than ever before
05:18 matey; the problem is people not using them
05:18 TR News; "Suppose, not hypothetically, that you have a machine that periodically has its load average briefly soar to relatively absurd levels for no obvious reason" https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/linux/LoadAverageWhereFrom | Source: uni Toronto
05:18 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: utoronto.ca | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/linux/LoadAverageWhereFrom https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/linux/LoadAverageWhereFrom
05:18 TR Bot; Chris's Wiki :: blog/linux/LoadAverageWhereFrom
05:18 MinceR; maybe you mean MICROS~1's TFS (which i prefer to call WTFS)
05:19 matey; gitlab ticks the most boxes, but its hateful. so if you need it, use gitlab
05:19 matey; but most people dont need gitlab, so use something more modest-- now there are MANY options
05:19 TR News; "Recently, I took a look at Nintendos MMC line of mappers, and some other boards" https://nicole.express/2022/the-center-point-can-not-hold.html |
05:19 activelow; i prefer self-hosting, although, cannot afford it
05:19 TR Bot; The games Nintendo didn't want you to play: Tengen
05:19 matey; gitlab is the one with the most bells and whistles
05:20 matey; i prefer self-hosting, although, cannot afford it <- most options have a free option. exceptions include sourcehut, which has no free option.
05:20 activelow; i prefer to keep it as simple as possible, not simpler
05:20 matey; i dont trust gitlab with free non-self-hosting.
05:20 matey; <activelow> i prefer to keep it as simple as possible, not simpler <- you probably want notabug or savannah then
05:20 matey; both are free, both have git
05:21 matey; neither require a browser to update them
05:21 activelow; i noticed too, OpenBSD kept their CVS btw.
05:21 matey; theres a reason
05:21 matey; the development processes they use arent suited to git
05:21 matey; git has features or limits that would require them to change the way they develop certain things
05:22 activelow; git would cover almost any development process
05:22 matey; this doesnt affect most people but theyre not the only ones who say this
05:22 matey; the key word being almost
05:22 activelow; i think it's the stability aspect, them keeping CVS
05:22 matey; engineers that believe one-size-fits-all really fits all should become web developers instead
05:22 matey; after all, its too late for web development. we still need engineering.
05:23 matey; github is what git would look like if web developers-- actually thats not fair
05:23 matey; its SLIGHTLY more true of gitlab.
05:23 activelow; for a while i was hooked on jenkins, don't remind me
05:23 matey; heh
05:23 matey; i think it's the stability aspect <- hopefully thats a factor
05:24 matey; but theyve actually explained this, and its their development processes, which they favour
05:24 matey; changing those to suit gits way of doing things is a change for the sake of change, of no use to them at all
05:24 matey; work for the sake of work
05:24 matey; its actually less suited to their purposes than cvs
05:25 matey; plus they dont want pull requests
05:25 matey; at all
05:25 matey; pull requests are bad for something like openbsd
05:25 matey; an actual negative
05:25 TR News; "On the plus side, the Tiny 2040 does break out a fourth ADC input which is connected to an on-board temperature sensor on Pico." https://magpi.raspberrypi.com/articles/review-tiny-2040 | Source: Raspberry Pi
05:25 TR Bot; REVIEW: Tiny 2040 The MagPi magazine
05:25 matey; theyre probably a negative for many projects
05:26 matey; i mean you could replicate the "simplicity" of pull requests with an irc channel
05:26 TR News; "As exciting as this Pi-powered dance party is, the project serves an even greater purpose in the world of education." https://www.tomshardware.com/news/wacky-waving-inflatable-raspberry-pi-project | Source: Tom's Hardware
05:27 TR Bot; Raspberry Pi Wacky Inflatable Tube Guys Keep Students in Line | Tom's Hardware
05:27 matey; so instead of using the mailing list like a civilised human being you just go to irc, start your line with REQUEST and voila
05:27 matey; youre lowering the bar when you do that
05:27 matey; so now you can actually have any irc bot spamming you with "irc pull requests"
05:28 matey; and you have to deal with that, isntead of people who want to work on your os just using email
05:28 TR News; quote> </li>
05:28 activelow; i think one technical reason for CVS (besides stability), is the granularity of repositories, which is with git one CVS repo had to split into smaller project repositories
05:28 matey; its slightly less work for contributors, times the number of useless contributions that result, adding up to more work for maintainers and often close to zero benefit
05:28 matey; FSVO close to zero of course
05:29 matey; is the granularity of repositories <- this is exactly why pypy doesnt use github.
05:29 matey; and thank god
05:29 matey; (or whatever)
05:29 matey; but i think you still need python2 to compile pypy.
05:30 matey; and i have no idea what their plans are about that
05:30 *oarion7 has quit (Quit: Running IRC on a charmed medieval abacus.)
05:30 activelow; which reminds me of submodules with git, not integrated nicely with gentoo ebuilds (at least i had some problems with it)
05:30 matey; youd think "mirror python2" since python3 cant do what they want
05:30 TR News; "Though, truthfully, I highly recommend listening to the whole thing." https://lunduke.substack.com/p/richard-stallman-the-state-of-the | Source: Bryan Lunduke
05:30 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: substack.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://lunduke.substack.com/p/richard-stallman-the-state-of-the https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://lunduke.substack.com/p/richard-stallman-the-state-of-the
05:30 TR Bot; Richard Stallman - "The state of the Free Software movement" - April 13, 2022
05:30 TR News; "I just went through an extensive job search, maybe the most strenuous of my life." https://blog.plover.com/brain/last-stop.html | Source: Mark Dominus
05:30 TR Bot; The Universe of Discourse : Let's go find out!
05:31 matey; which reminds me of submodules with git, not integrated nicely with gentoo ebuilds (at least i had some problems with it) <- git is not really the best option for everything
05:31 matey; neither is cvs (obviously)
05:31 matey; if cvs were ideal i doubt so many people would be fleeing like it was on fire
05:31 matey; but its better for some project
05:31 matey; note that people also flee systemd like it was on fire
05:31 matey; just not as quickly as people flee cvs
05:32 matey; or as often
05:32 matey; its so windy my air conditioner is heaving
05:33 matey; "huhh, huhh, huhh" im about to tape a paper bag to it
05:33 TR News; "Let's keep working on O, our peephole optimizer for cproc and QBE. Our previous posts resparked some attention over on the QBE mailing list" https://briancallahan.net/blog/20220417.html | Source: Brian Callahan
05:33 TR Bot; Brian Robert Callahan
05:33 matey; that or call an obgyn
05:33 TR News; "This week, I created the candlestick below, and I think its an excellent case study to illustrate a few things: [...]" https://www.r-bloggers.com/2022/04/linking-r-and-python-to-retrieve-financial-data-and-plot-a-candlestick/ | Source: Rlang
05:33 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: r-bloggers.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.r-bloggers.com/2022/04/linking-r-and-python-to-retrieve-financial-data-and-plot-a-candlestick/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.r-bloggers.com/2022/04/linking-r-and-python-to-retrieve-financial-data-and-plot-a-candlestick/
05:33 TR Bot; R and Python to retrieve financial data and plot a candlestick | R-bloggers
05:34 matey; (acgyn?)
05:35 TR News; Operating systems battle: OpenBSD vs NixO gemini://perso.pw/blog/articles/openbsd-vs-nixos.gmi
05:35 schestowitz; [cat] gemini://nytpu.com/cheetahs/D564.jpg
05:37 TR News; "Regarding gophermap, I have yet to study the ancient concept a bit more" gemini://envs.net/~pen/log/sitemap.gmi
05:37 matey; http://www.kbd-project.org/
05:37 TR Bot; KBD Linux keyboard tools.
05:37 matey; kernel.org or github? you decide
05:37 matey; mailing list or pull request? we dont judge
05:38 matey; most of the kernel is still developed off github, for now
05:38 matey; i should say most of the kernel git, since im pretty sure most of kbd isnt IN the kernel per se
05:38 matey; but im not actually sure of that either
05:39 matey; for things to get truly nasty, we need to start porting the kernel to rust
05:39 matey; then i will actually prefer systemd to the linux kernel itself :)
05:39 TR News; Razer x Lambda Tensorbook: Blade on Linux http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163670#comment-33387
05:39 TR Bot; Razer and Lambda Team Up to Unveil a Linux Laptop for Deep Learning | Tux Machines
05:40 activelow; systemd isn't the worst, it can be removed still, not too difficult; dbus is worse
05:40 TR News; "As it's being ostracized and sanctioned by much of the world for its war against Ukraine, Russia is building up plans to revive its ailing local manufacturing" https://www.tomshardware.com/news/russia-semiconductor-plan-28nm | Source: Tom's Hardware
05:40 TR Bot; Russian Government's New Semiconductor Plan: Local 28nm by 2030 | Tom's Hardware
05:40 matey; i dont like dbus. and i may ultimately dislike it as much as you do, but even then i bet it wont be the same reason
05:41 matey; then again, its hard to say
05:41 activelow; and, since you missed it, kernel version-bumped compiler requirements recently, to gcc-5.x, which _is_ a rust style compiler, written in c++; just like llvm is, serving rust-lang
05:41 matey; "a rust style compiler" i dont know what "rust style compiler" means
05:41 activelow; kernel 5.10 required nasty patching already, so gcc-4.7 accepts it
05:42 activelow; a rust style compiler is, implemented in c++, to begin there
05:42 matey; heh
05:42 activelow; a rust style compiler is dozens of millions of lines of code, instead of 100000LoC
05:42 matey; i dont think thats fair, even to compilers implemented in c++
05:42 matey; at best it seems partly fair
05:43 matey; a rust style compiler is dozens of millions of lines of code, instead of 100000LoC <- so i would say its a "bloated" compiler, but
05:43 matey; defining bloat is tricky. i think its actually very important. but its not easy to do.
05:43 matey; its easier than defining pornography at least
05:43 matey; thats hard to define
05:44 matey; the post office doesnt even try.
05:44 matey; they have regluations on it but they dont strictly define what it is
05:44 matey; defining bloat is tricky, and obviously somewhat subjective, but i think it even depends on context
05:45 matey; id compare it to "a reasonable expectation of privacy"
05:45 matey; if you walk around in broad daylight, you have a different reasonable expectation of privacy than if you shut your curtains at home
05:45 matey; if youre in a car, its different again
05:45 matey; bloat is like this
05:46 matey; but like privacy, bloat is still an important issue. being complicated doesnt change that.
05:47 matey; if i throw around the phrase "rust style compiler" when my concerns about rust go far beyond bloat, im simply making it more difficult to understand what problems i may (or may not) have with a compiler
05:47 activelow; well then, show me a compiler for rust-lang, which is not implemented in C++...
05:47 matey; the bloat in gcc may be justified, sometimes, especially compared to the bloat in llvm, which seems unjustifiable
05:48 matey; well then, show me a compiler for rust-lang, which is not implemented in C++... <- this just sloppy categorisation
05:48 TR News; "This is an event open for anybody involved in the development of email clients using OpenPGP for encryption" https://wiki.gnupg.org/OpenPGPEmailSummit202205 | Source: GnuPG
05:48 TR Bot; OpenPGPEmailSummit202205 - GnuPG wiki
05:48 matey; grass is green and traffic lights are green, therefore traffic lights are grass
05:48 activelow; this is what gcc-5.x (supporting golang) and llvm (supporting rust) have in common now: bloat, c++, mandatory to compile any recent kernel
05:49 activelow; and dozens of millions of lines of code
05:49 matey; where we agree is that gcc should not be the only viable c compiler. there should be a much lighter one that ALSO works
05:50 TR News; "Public Twitter lists under the names Labor Trolls and Lobotomised Shitheads have been discovered on ABC weekend news presenter Fauziah Ibrahim's account" https://itwire.com/government-tech-news/technology-regulation/anti-labor-public-twitter-lists-found-on-abc-presenter-s-account.html | Source: IT Wire
05:50 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: itwire.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://itwire.com/government-tech-news/technology-regulation/anti-labor-public-twitter-lists-found-on-abc-presenter-s-account.html https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://itwire.com/government-tech-news/technology-regulation/anti-labor-public-twitter-lists-found-on-abc-presenter-s-account.html
05:50 matey; if someone forked the last version of gcc that was c-only, that didnt need c++, and that became a viable project (not just part of a one-man distro)
05:50 TR Bot; - Anti-Labor public Twitter lists found on ABC presenter's account
05:50 matey; that would make me INCREDIBLY happy
05:50 activelow; and there isn't any maintained, to compile linux kernel with
05:50 TR News; "The Australian Financial Review, which claims to be one of the country's top newspapers, does not appear to know the difference between data from a poll" https://itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis-sp-481/open-sauce/afr-shows-it-does-not-know-difference-between-poll-and-focus-group.html | Source: IT Wire
05:50 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: itwire.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis-sp-481/open-sauce/afr-shows-it-does-not-know-difference-between-poll-and-focus-group.html https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis-sp-481/open-sauce/afr-shows-it-does-not-know-difference-between-poll-and-focus-group.html
05:50 TR Bot; - AFR shows it does not know difference between poll and focus group
05:50 matey; well theres a difference
05:50 matey; you care about the future of the linux kernel, i do not give a damn about it
05:50 activelow; and instead hope for what?
05:51 matey; no matter what we do, linux is going to implode. im not saying it will be soon, only that no one will stop it
05:51 matey; and instead hope for what? <- heres the funny thing!
05:51 matey; you think gcc is bloat but linux gets a pass.
05:51 matey; if anything, the linux kernel is worse.
05:51 matey; by this i mean
05:51 activelow; the harm to linux kernel was done, with the recent version bumps of required gcc, and missing support for tinycc
05:51 matey; gcc is no where NEAR the hopeless dumping ground for code that linux is
05:52 matey; the harm to linux kernel was done, with the recent version bumps of required gcc <- no, the harm goes FAR beyond that
05:52 matey; i mean it may or may not start there, but thats the tip of the iceberg
05:52 activelow; of cause, yet the gcc-4.8 c++ bump is ireversible!
05:52 matey; the industry has the linux kernel surrounded
05:53 matey; there are no liberators, anyone interested has already moved or is moving
05:53 activelow; you can't just grab a gcc-4.7 (with or without c++ support), and compile a recent kernel/uboot/userspace anymore
05:53 matey; more will move of course, but the people interested in "fixing the problem" now are moving or have moved
05:53 matey; you can't just grab a gcc-4.7 (with or without c++ support) <- this im aware of, you make it very clear
05:53 activelow; which is another reason, i wipe c++ dependencies, to limit the damage
05:54 activelow; already began wiping some C11 from kernel, to keep gcc-4.7
05:54 matey; and id be truly thrilled if someone made a c-only fork of gcc. and it was viable in terms of supporting many projects (software that already exists)
05:54 activelow; too necessary in preparation for tinycc
05:54 matey; already began wiping some C11 from kernel, to keep gcc-4.7 <- youre going to end up with an outdated kernel, much more than what you have now
05:54 matey; linux is a dumping ground
05:54 activelow; the fork exists already, i am using this c-only profile here
05:54 matey; other kernels are sane by comparison (many are also useless, but they arent dumping grounds for random shit)
05:55 matey; the fork exists already <- and thats cool
05:55 activelow; which kernels? *BSD? *BSD switched to llvm -> no, thanks.
05:55 matey; that is a problem, yes
05:55 activelow; any other kernel? good luck with hardware support.
05:55 matey; linux will continue removing hardware support
05:56 activelow; what i do, is wiping everything possible from linux kernel, compile this statically
05:56 matey; it has changed stewards from people who care about supporting hardware, to people creating a support treadmill
05:56 matey; in that sense too, linux is doomed
05:56 activelow; and, the dumping ground is the shitload of hardware variants
05:56 activelow; with requirements for firmware
05:56 matey; firmware is also a problem, not (as far as i know) solved by any particular os
05:56 activelow; in fact, linux kernel core components can remain relatively clean, by disabling/removing most modules and extensions
05:57 matey; in fact the fsf is next to useless there, the free hardware people might (MIGHT) do better
05:57 matey; time will tell
05:57 matey; its what i hope for
05:57 activelow; problem with linux kernel: no support for tinycc, C11 creeping into, gcc version bump to 5.x
05:57 TR News; "The objections to Elon Musk buying Twitter can be distilled down to one simple thing" https://itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis-sp-481/open-sauce/murdoch,-zuckerberg,-bezos,-brin,-page-are-all-a-okay-but-musk.html | Source: IT Wire
05:57 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: itwire.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis-sp-481/open-sauce/murdoch,-zuckerberg,-bezos,-brin,-page-are-all-a-okay-but-musk.html https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis-sp-481/open-sauce/murdoch,-zuckerberg,-bezos,-brin,-page-are-all-a-okay-but-musk.html
05:57 matey; for starters
05:57 TR Bot; - Murdoch, Zuckerberg, Bezos, Brin, Page are all A-okay. But Musk???
05:57 matey; there are other problems that are just as big
05:57 matey; its been taken over by a company known for taking over its competitors for the purpose of destroying them
05:57 activelow; GCC is THE #1 project of GNU/FSF
05:58 matey; and its controlled by ibm
05:58 matey; oops
05:58 matey; though some would say its emacs. as far as i know you still need to compile emacs.
05:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 22.08 k/sec., IPFS upstream 26.60 average k/sec., average swarm size 296.66
05:59 activelow; emacs can easily be replaced with vi or any other of the many, linux kernel cannot
05:59 matey; the problem with adding compiler features is people use them
05:59 matey; the problem with people using them is-- like with web development
05:59 activelow; emacs does not require a c++ compiler, linux kernel and gcc itself do
05:59 matey; the more impossible the standard becomes
05:59 matey; the more you get locked into a single implementation!
05:59 matey; the more you get locked into a single implementation, the closer we get to monopoly (any aspect of it, including corporate control)
05:59 matey; the fsf fucked this up, royally
06:00 matey; where is freedom 3?
06:00 matey; its in the fucking cloud
06:00 activelow; well then, let me rephrase, GCC being #1 trouble source, ireversibly since the 5.X series; and llvm isn't an alternative, llvm is just another sponsor of this corporate clusterf**ck
06:00 matey; implemented in rust (actual rust, not rust style)
06:00 matey; GCC being #1 trouble source <- gnu-coopting-corporations?
06:00 activelow; i don't know, all i know is gcc was damaged
06:00 matey; ahhh, gnu-corporate-clusterfuck
06:01 matey; i was close
06:01 activelow; and damaging the compiler, is deadly to free software
06:01 matey; gcc was damaged <- theres a process at work there
06:01 matey; wanna see the process?
06:01 matey; i can show you whats killing all this stuff
06:01 activelow; sure
06:02 matey; http://techrights.org/wiki/Ted_MacReilly_Handbook_Revisited:_Introduction
06:02 TR Bot; Ted MacReilly Handbook Revisited: Introduction - Techrights
06:02 TR News; "Last night marked the third time SNL has lampooned TikTok this season." https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2022/04/saturday-night-live-lizzo-tiktok/629591/ | Source: The Atlantic
06:02 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: theatlantic.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2022/04/saturday-night-live-lizzo-tiktok/629591/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2022/04/saturday-night-live-lizzo-tiktok/629591/
06:02 TR Bot; 'SNL'Really Wants to Say Something About TikTok - The Atlantic
06:02 matey; old plans, still being used
06:02 matey; "A Handbook for Destroying the Free Software Movement"
06:03 TR News; "Infowars filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection" https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/alex-jones-infowars-files-bankruptcy-protection-84143358 | Source: ABC
06:03 TR Bot; EXPLAINER: What does Infowars bankruptcy filing mean? - ABC News
06:03 matey; "Above all, the key strategy is not to destroy free software completely, but to break it in enough important places[2] so that it poses less and less of a threat to your near-monopoly."
06:03 TR News; "Because of the falsehoods, families of the victims have found themselves routinely accosted" https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/18/us/alex-jones-infowars-bankruptcy.html | Source: New York Times
06:03 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: nytimes.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/18/us/alex-jones-infowars-bankruptcy.html https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/18/us/alex-jones-infowars-bankruptcy.html
06:03 TR Bot; Alex Joness Infowars Files for Bankruptcy - The New York Times
06:04 TR News; "conspiracy-oriented website and media company" https://text.npr.org/1093297017 | Source: NPR
06:04 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: npr.org | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://text.npr.org/1093297017 https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://text.npr.org/1093297017
06:04 TR Bot; InfoWars files for bankruptcy in the face of lawsuits over Sandy Hook shooting denial
06:05 *CrystalMath has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)
06:06 matey; chapter 8 is probably the one that interests you the most http://techrights.org/wiki/Ted_MacReilly_Handbook_Revisited:_Chapter_8
06:06 TR Bot; Ted MacReilly Handbook Revisited: Chapter 8 - Techrights
06:07 matey; because its all about adding "overhead" (bloat) to projects so that they are only managable by a behemoth
06:07 matey; if something is lightweight you burden it until no one BUT a corporation would want it or could do anythign with it
06:07 matey; and THEN, its YOURS (if you are a large corporation)
06:07 matey; of course chapter 8 focuses on the social side of that
06:07 matey; but it applies in a technical sense as well
06:08 matey; you add bloat until its useless to anyone but ibm/microsoft
06:08 matey; and then they control free software. simple.
06:08 matey; how will the rest of us manage? by submitting to ibm/microsoft of course
06:08 matey; or google. or whoever takes their place
06:08 matey; so it doesnt matter if github collapses, or windows loses marketshare
06:09 matey; because the point is monopoly itself-- not WHICH monopoly
06:09 matey; unless you have people FIGHTING monopoly (and the fsf doesnt, at all)
06:09 matey; then all you will have is monopoly. and calling that freedom is a fools errand
06:10 activelow; matey: i do _not_ intend to "compete" with or against microsoft
06:10 activelow; this company, or any of their products, do not exist
06:10 matey; so bloat isnt just a problem, its a weapon
06:10 matey; now thats a nice thought
06:10 matey; possibly insane, but nice
06:10 activelow; with the only exception, of the altair basic paper tape, which seems the only product worth mentioning
06:11 matey; so where does windows come from? or does that not exist either?
06:11 activelow; what is windows?
06:12 matey; oh boy
06:12 matey; if i leave suddenly, it could be the wind blowing a tree onto the lines
06:12 matey; or part of a tree
06:13 matey; <activelow> what is windows? <- https://yewtu.be/watch?v=HEXWRTEbj1I
06:13 TR Bot; Haddaway - What Is Love [Official] - Invidious
06:13 matey; german music!
06:13 activelow; as soon as there is some M$ IBM Wintel anywhere close, if anything stinks as they do, i'm gone
06:13 activelow; which has the mutual benefit, if i wanted to compete, i couldn't because it isn't possible to apply for a job anymore, without any of their shitware products
06:14 activelow; i mean, my ASCII text-only formatted CV prints nicely on a 9pin matrix printer
06:14 activelow; i bet, most HR offices complain it is *nix newlines and looks shitty in their editor of choice
06:15 activelow; and their virus scanners pick up the signature.asc as malware, what a glory
06:16 matey; i bet, most HR offices complain it is *nix newlines <- only because they dont have macs
06:17 activelow; and the shitty mails such companies send, try to print this onto 9pin matrix with muttprint
06:17 activelow; a 1970s teletype terminal did a better job than them
06:18 activelow; i don't care, mac, wintel, it's the same type of rubbish
06:18 activelow; unstable, short-lived, consumer oriented electronics waste production
06:18 matey; 1970s teleypes were cool
06:18 matey; too bad there isnt a reusable paper for them
06:19 matey; and acousting shielding
06:19 matey; acoustic
06:19 activelow; fanfeed paper is available still, yet i only print and archive important mails
06:19 matey; if you are accosted with sound, you are acousted
06:20 matey; fanfeed paper is available still <- this is true, as long as jk rowling doesnt put out yet another series, causing the global paper economy (well, trees as a species) to collapse
06:20 matey; thank god for film, which offsets this disaster a bit
06:21 activelow; and show me any operating system, which fit onto a floppy disk, could print onto 9pin matrix, and send/receive some mail
06:21 activelow; a typical IBM Wintel OS, how much, a DVD sized monstrosity, 4GiB compressed, it cannot do it
06:22 matey; i mean even your os doesnt target that sort of footprint
06:22 activelow; or a typical mac os installation? could i attach a 9pin matrix printer, open vim, and echo "holy shit" >/dev/lp0
06:22 matey; could i attach a 9pin matrix printer, open vim, and echo "holy shit" >/dev/lp0 <- no but you could probably pipe it to... what was the one BEFORE cups?
06:23 activelow; CUPS printing, another such glorious innovation, this time, from apple inc.
06:23 matey; the printer will need an adapter obviously
06:23 matey; as the mac wont have the port
06:23 matey; echo "holy shit" would still be supported
06:23 matey; whichever utility predated cups might work, /dev/lp0 likely would not
06:23 activelow; cups is awful
06:24 matey; the original pipe symbol was actually >
06:24 activelow; lpr-ng, i still keep it, just in case i wanted unix print spooling for /dev/lp0, i got that here
06:24 matey; i believe im thinking of lpr
06:24 activelow; lpr-ng was wiped from the trees everywhere too
06:24 matey; echo "holy shit" | lpr
06:24 matey; but to be fair, youre asking about a mac.
06:25 activelow; no thanks.
06:25 matey; <activelow> or a typical mac os installation? could i attach a 9pin matrix printer, open vim, and echo "holy shit" >/dev/lp0
06:25 matey; <activelow> no thanks.
06:25 matey; i mean, you asked.
06:25 matey; im not actually sure lpr works on a mac anyway
06:25 matey; i wouldnt be surprised if it did actually
06:25 activelow; it is probably wrapped into cups
06:26 activelow; i wiped all cups support from baphometos
06:26 matey; that is why
06:26 matey; and i dont blame you for it
06:26 activelow; /dev/lp0 doesn't require a spooler, yet even this is available with lpr-ng, easily administered, and btw. lpd does not require root-privileges, cupsd does
06:26 activelow; another moment of clarity, what to think of it
06:27 matey; when something requires root privs, theres often a good reason why
06:27 activelow; so yes, i keep it as is, as it was 25 years ago, lpr-ng received the last updated 2006 iirc, and it's still good
06:27 matey; i spent years wondering why fbdev did, until i had a moment of clarity
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06:30 matey; i used to think "what is love" was cheesy, but now its a classic
06:30 matey; if you watch the video, the song isnt cheesy anymore, because next to the video for it, nothing is
06:31 *activelow doesn't watch any youtube
06:31 *Seaduck| has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb2+b1 - https://znc.in)
06:31 *Seaduck- (~seaduck@ys9kag65kxsiu.irc) has joined #techrights
06:31 matey; <activelow> ACTION doesn't watch any youtube <- there ought to be a medal for this
06:34 *prurigro (~prurigro@uzfeivw9fp6ba.irc) has joined #techrights
06:35 *XFaCE (~XFaCE@uzfeivw9fp6ba.irc) has joined #techrights
06:38 matey; "In exchange for software with more churn, more bloat, less choice and less user control and reliability they get cooler software tools, larger sponsorships, bigger marketing and events that feature their software everything they would enjoy if we took over their world and did things our way. And we still get royalties and the chance to steer development away from things that help our competitors more than they help us."
06:39 matey; "The plan has never actually changed, but our way of framing it has changed entirely. We de-commoditize protocols. We add features we want and deprecate ones that people rely on, and we tell them to get with the program. We create the same kind of lock-in (in practice) by decreasing the compatibility with trusted development tools and utilities, so we can move more quickly (and drag users along) from one industry fad to another."
06:39 matey; that is what youre complaining about. you choose to focus on tying in c++ to c, which imo is a fair point
06:39 matey; but its an example of a very large trend with MANY examples
06:40 matey; many of which are unfortunate
06:40 activelow; the technical terms are: interoperability (components interacting), and compatibility (components being replaceable)
06:40 matey; and you focus on the c/c++ to the exclusion of all the others (i do not focus only on github or systemd)
06:41 matey; the technical terms are: interoperability (components interacting), and compatibility (components being replaceable) <- okay, but "interoperability" is a term microsoft rode straight to hell
06:41 matey; it probably means the opposite of what it used to today
06:41 activelow; the strategy is typically this, maximize interoperability, to approach competition, the extend upon to create an incompatibility (vendor lock-in), and finally remove interopability against competition
06:41 matey; the strategy is typically this, maximize interoperability, to approach competition, the extend upon to create an incompatibility (vendor lock-in), and finally remove interopability against competition <- youve got it
06:41 activelow; this is what they do, strategically, all of them, M$ IBM Wintel FB AAPL
06:41 matey; thats exactly it
06:42 activelow; add to this some pentagon/rand corp. related dominance strategies, semiconductor protection act 1984
06:42 matey; big arsehole companies who want to turn free software back into user controlling software
06:42 matey; add to this some pentagon/rand corp. related dominance strategies, semiconductor protection act 1984 <- some or all is likely enough
06:43 activelow; freedom, in 1984, was attacked long before FSF existed, and it is no coincidence i think, FSF focuses on "free software", which is a misnomer
06:43 matey; long before FSF existed <- obviously, as the fsf was intended as a response to it
06:43 matey; responses tend to come after
06:43 activelow; on the side of interoperability, which serves to push proprietary malicious hardware controlled by "5 eyes", which is with such hardware the software freedom is less of a concern
06:43 matey; FSF focuses on "free software", which is a misnomer <- though i dont entirely agree, im sympathetic to the reason you say it
06:44 matey; free software to the exclusion of free hardware helps defeat free software itself
06:44 matey; rms doesnt see that. others do.
06:44 activelow; matey: FSF didn't respond to the semiconductor protection act 1984, they explicitely designated themselves free _software_, which is a misnomer
06:44 matey; his "view" of free hardware is from him aiming the telescope opposite the way its intended
06:44 matey; "youre holding it wrong"
06:45 activelow; i do not blame rms or the fsf
06:45 matey; i think they could justify ignoring hardware at that time
06:45 matey; at least ignoring it as much as they did
06:46 activelow; nonetheless, i am very sceptical about what is marketed as "free software", given the fact even this is a label which applied to what was available 25 years ago
06:46 matey; i dont think they can justify that approach today
06:46 activelow; what is distributed with the banner of "free software" nowadays is totally different quality, by the lines of code alone measured
06:46 matey; i am very sceptical about what is marketed as "free software" <- you ought to be, they are oblivious to constant attacks on freedom 3
06:46 activelow; GCC again being a #1 trouble source, which implements hundreds of extensions for proprietary malicious hardware
06:47 matey; despite esr handing them a book which said "here is what they will do, here is how they will do it, here is what will result" and being right about all three
06:47 matey; which ought to, and somehow doesnt (even in my book) make him a hero. though it should.
06:47 activelow; wake me up, when GNU announces they cut away 90% of LoC from GCC; or them supporting TinyCC and linux kernel compilation with it
06:47 activelow; guess what? won't happen
06:47 matey; indeed, tell me when theyre even headed in that direction!
06:47 activelow; they rather implement another 100 compiler extensions for malicous hardware vendors (IBM Wintel)
06:48 matey; wont happen <- rms resigned again at the second libreplanet, i dont think most people heard it (and im quite certain it wasnt deliberate)
06:48 matey; and i know he wouldnt agree
06:48 matey; i should say the second libreplanet this year
06:48 TR News; Julian did not commit a crime the people who did commit the crimes which he exposed have never been charged https://theowp.org/julian-assange-to-be-given-extradition-order-in-three-days/ | Source: OWP
06:48 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: theowp.org | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://theowp.org/julian-assange-to-be-given-extradition-order-in-three-days/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://theowp.org/julian-assange-to-be-given-extradition-order-in-three-days/
06:48 TR Bot; Julian Assange To Be Given Extradition Order In Three Days The Organization for World Peace
06:48 matey; there was one in march and then one in april
06:48 TR News; "RONALD L Haeberle was a combat photographer with the US army whose pictures exposed the horrors of the My Lai massacre in Vietnam" https://www.newagebd.net/article/168068/a-requiem-for-fine-journalism | Source: India
06:48 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: newagebd.net | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.newagebd.net/article/168068/a-requiem-for-fine-journalism https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.newagebd.net/article/168068/a-requiem-for-fine-journalism
06:48 TR Bot; A requiem for fine journalism
06:49 TR News; "Since the inception of WikiLeaks, organizations devoted to civil liberties, press freedom and human rights have argued that any government infringement on WikiLeaks right to publish would violate the First Amendment." https://www.pressenza.com/2022/04/as-biden-pursues-julian-assange-a-major-test-of-press-freedom-looms/ |
06:49 TR Bot; As Biden Pursues Julian Assange, a Major Test of Press Freedom Looms
06:49 matey; a lieplanet for lieplanet and a separate but equal lieplanet for rms
06:50 matey; in 2011 rms became entirely dependent on gnu/linux
06:51 matey; it was a step backwards
06:51 matey; in 2022 he became entirely dependent on people joining the fsf
06:51 matey; both of these were mistakes
06:51 matey; the second one is more rhetorical than the first however
06:52 matey; it has a valid point, but its made in a more rhetorical fashion
06:52 activelow; i consider RMS the developer, who implemented early emacs and gcc, not any recent versions of those
06:52 matey; he says himself he really doesnt code anymore
06:52 matey; however, development is more than coding
06:53 matey; leading a project can simply mean deciding what goes in and what doesnt
06:53 activelow; roughly 15 years ago or more, and this was when "software freedom" was represented by rms and fsf with what GPL is applied to
06:53 matey; and thats pretty important both from a technical and political standpoint
06:53 TR News; "The relative success of the welfare state in Europe owes much to its trade union history." https://jacobinmag.com/2022/04/us-unions-weak-welfare-state-universal-programs-health-care/ | Source: Jacobin Magazine
06:53 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: jacobinmag.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://jacobinmag.com/2022/04/us-unions-weak-welfare-state-universal-programs-health-care/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://jacobinmag.com/2022/04/us-unions-weak-welfare-state-universal-programs-health-care/
06:53 TR Bot; Unions Must Fight for a Universal Welfare State
06:53 matey; roughly 15 years ago or more <- interesting that you chose 15
06:53 activelow; the gcc move to c++ was year 2013, the EGCS move don't remember roughly 10 years before
06:54 activelow; and both were _wrong_
06:54 matey; ive put the worst compromises at 2011 and 2014-2015
06:54 matey; still 2013 is RIGHT in there
06:55 matey; if we ask enough people when the fsf started to :P
06:55 matey; id love to see that graph.
06:57 matey; EGCS 1.1 is based on an June 6, 1998 snapshot of the GCC 2.8 development sources; it contains all of the new features found in GCC 2.8.1 as well as all new development from GCC up to June 6 ... https://gcc.gnu.org/egcs-1.1/index.html
06:57 TR Bot; EGCS 1.1 - GNU Project
06:57 matey; whats bad about egcs?
06:58 activelow; the bootstrapping precedure of GCC (implemented and documented with GUIX), ended with gcc-2.7 iirc, roughly at the same time
06:58 activelow; *procedure
06:58 matey; because it was no longer "c compiler" but "compiler collection"
06:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 20.18 k/sec., IPFS upstream 44.48 average k/sec., average swarm size 247.73
06:59 activelow; matey: egcs aggressively implemented "free software" extensions for proprietary/non-standard hardware extensions (intel MMX SIMD in this case), to boast about mostly useless performance data
06:59 activelow; and the bootstrapping precedure of GCC (implemented and documented with GUIX), ended with gcc-2.7 iirc, roughly at the same time
07:00 TR News; Microsoft Windows kills https://krebsonsecurity.com/2022/04/contis-ransomware-toll-on-the-healthcare-industry/ | Source: Krebs On Security
07:00 TR Bot; Contis Ransomware Toll on the Healthcare Industry Krebs on Security
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07:02 TR News; Updated today: "It makes me livid when people talk about climate change as if it is inevitable. It is a political choice that we are actively making." gemini://alex.flounder.online/journal.gmi
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07:06 AltLink_c52c; [:E] > ClownFlare has trashed.....eradicate this web-cancer // well we have the term Covflare (Spread like COVID) image to describe current situation - https://archive.org/download/crimeflare/covflare.jpg
07:08 TR News; Ask Soylent: What Software Do You Still Use On a Daily Basis? - SoylentNews https://soylentnews.org/article.pl?sid=22/04/16/1827205 Source: soylentnews
07:08 TR Bot; Ask Soylent: What Software Do You Still Use On a Daily Basis? - SoylentNews
07:10 TR News; "At the Chevrolet dealer to get the Buick fixed, I noticed that nobody was in there to buy a car." https://baronhk.wordpress.com/2022/04/19/at-the-chevrolet-dealer-to-get-the-buick-fixed-i-noticed-that-nobody-was-in-there-to-buy-a-car/
07:10 TR Bot; At the Chevrolet dealer to get the Buick fixed, I noticed that nobody was in there to buy a car. BaronHK's Rants
07:10 *XFaCE (~XFaCE@uzfeivw9fp6ba.irc) has joined #techrights
07:11 schestowitz-TR; AltLink_c52c: lol!
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07:14 TR News; "According to the CDC, vaccine development normally takes 5-10 years, while the COVID-19 vaccines were rolled out in one year" https://www.projectcensored.org/covid-19-vaccine-safety-and-data-integrity-concerns/ | Source: Project Censored
07:14 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: projectcensored.org | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.projectcensored.org/covid-19-vaccine-safety-and-data-integrity-concerns/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.projectcensored.org/covid-19-vaccine-safety-and-data-integrity-concerns/
07:14 TR Bot; ( status 520 @ https://www.projectcensored.org/covid-19-vaccine-safety-and-data-integrity-concerns/ )
07:15 TR News; silence governments, throttle supply, shift risk and maximize profits in the middle of a global public health crisis. https://www.projectcensored.org/in-push-for-profits-pfizer-pre-empting-national-governments-powers/ | Source: Project Censored
07:15 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: projectcensored.org | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.projectcensored.org/in-push-for-profits-pfizer-pre-empting-national-governments-powers/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.projectcensored.org/in-push-for-profits-pfizer-pre-empting-national-governments-powers/
07:15 TR Bot; ( status 520 @ https://www.projectcensored.org/in-push-for-profits-pfizer-pre-empting-national-governments-powers/ )
07:32 matey; <activelow> matey: egcs aggressively implemented "free software" extensions for proprietary/non-standard hardware extensions (intel MMX SIMD in this case), to boast about mostly useless performance data <- /me wonders how much this had to do with changing from an older standard to a new one
07:32 matey; or just to support changes in the linux kernel
07:33 matey; it may not matter all that much, its still good to know where these things actually come from
07:34 mjg59_; How is MMX more non-standard than cmov?
07:34 matey; G++ is also converting toward the ISO C++ standard; as a result code which was previously valid (and thus accepted by other compilers and older versions of g++) may no longer be accepted. https://gcc.gnu.org/egcs-1.1/caveats.html
07:34 TR Bot; EGCS 1.1 Caveats - GNU Project
07:36 mjg59_; Intel specced MMX, AMD implemented it as part of 3DNow!
07:45 activelow; mmx is proprietay simd
07:45 TR News; "Weve tried to make this point many times before." https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/18/new-study-shows-section-230-protects-small-companies-much-more-than-big-ones/ | Source: Techdirt
07:45 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: techdirt.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/18/new-study-shows-section-230-protects-small-companies-much-more-than-big-ones/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/18/new-study-shows-section-230-protects-small-companies-much-more-than-big-ones/
07:45 TR Bot; Study Shows Section 230 Protects Small Companies Much More Than Big Ones | Techdirt
07:45 TR News; Brutes like copyrights https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/18/cops-are-still-playing-copyrighted-music-to-thwart-citizens-recording-their-actions/ | Source: Techdirt
07:45 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: techdirt.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/18/cops-are-still-playing-copyrighted-music-to-thwart-citizens-recording-their-actions/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/18/cops-are-still-playing-copyrighted-music-to-thwart-citizens-recording-their-actions/
07:45 TR Bot; Are Still Playing Copyrighted Music To Thwart Citizens Recording Their Actions | Techdirt
07:46 activelow; predating EGCS the FSF was mentioned as conservative, rejecting "innovation", and kept the compiler codebase relatively clean
07:46 mjg59_; activelow: Proprietary in what way?
07:46 mjg59_; What SIMD isn't proprietary?
07:46 activelow; mjg59_: the only verilog available from intel is i8086
07:46 TR News; "Musk Social"... are YOU still active in Twitter? TIME TO RETHINK. https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/18/former-reddit-ceo-content-moderation-teams-dont-care-about-your-politics-they-just-want-you-to-stop-being-a-jerk/ | Source: Techdirt
07:46 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: techdirt.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/18/former-reddit-ceo-content-moderation-teams-dont-care-about-your-politics-they-just-want-you-to-stop-being-a-jerk/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/18/former-reddit-ceo-content-moderation-teams-dont-care-about-your-politics-they-just-want-you-to-stop-being-a-jerk/
07:46 TR Bot; Reddit CEO: Content Moderation Teams Dont Care About Your Politics, They Just Want You To Stop Being A Jerk | Techdirt
07:47 mjg59_; activelow: So any compiler that targets 286 is targeting non-standard proprietary hardware?
07:48 activelow; mjg59_: exactly, i am not aware of any free/open-source SIMD (not sure about RISC-V, not interested, since RISC-V requires recent c++ compilers >gcc-5 or llvm/clang)
07:48 activelow; mjg59_: yes
07:48 mjg59_; Ok so it feels like talking about MMX is a red herring
07:48 TR News; Twitter censorship https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/18/fascinating-new-study-suggests-again-that-twitter-moderation-is-biased-against-misinformation-not-conservatives/ | Source: Techdirt
07:48 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: techdirt.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/18/fascinating-new-study-suggests-again-that-twitter-moderation-is-biased-against-misinformation-not-conservatives/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/18/fascinating-new-study-suggests-again-that-twitter-moderation-is-biased-against-misinformation-not-conservatives/
07:48 TR Bot; New Study Suggests (Again) That Twitter Moderation Is Biased Against Misinformation, Not Conservatives | Techdirt
07:49 activelow; it is not, because the amount of extensions blew up the free software, (dozens of millions of lines of code for GCC alone)
07:52 matey; predating EGCS the FSF was mentioned as conservative, rejecting "innovation", and kept the compiler codebase relatively clean <- this is a good place to start
07:52 matey; extensions shouldnt (as a rule) be replacements
07:52 matey; they should be extensions
07:52 matey; of course thats not possible all the time, thats a given. thats why i say as a rule-- it shouldnt be upside-down
07:52 matey; when it goes upside-down, we see what happens
07:53 matey; not always exactly what activelow is talking about
07:53 matey; though he talks about it as often as anyone, just not in the terms i would
07:53 matey; the eaxmples are (a little) weird sometimes. but not always
07:53 activelow; it is practically _impossible_ to roll back GCC to 2.7 quality, and it is not possible to reverse gcc implentation language back to C (gcc-4.7) anymore
07:54 matey; when languages get extended, projects start using the extensions
07:54 matey; this isnt a neutral statement. it isnt always bad, and i think it is bad sometimes
07:54 activelow; and the starting nowadays, is tinycc, together with support for linux kernel (x86,64, aarch32, 64, sparc, mips)
07:54 matey; "features" arent neutral
07:55 matey; / considered harmful
07:55 activelow; with the nice side effect, tinycc is/was known being capable to bootstrap gcc-4.7, given the fact GUIX bootstrapping procedure for gcc quit with gcc-2.7 already (at the time egcs took the lead)
07:56 matey; consider a diet made entirely of sugar, and the alternative is sanity, maybe not a sugar-free diet
07:56 matey; sanity is a good goal. ive NEVER seen a project that was "pure" but i have (rarely, but just the same) seen a sane one
07:56 TR News; 2020 election used proprietary software in voting machines. Voting confidence won't be improved until this gets eradicated completely. https://truthout.org/articles/efforts-to-build-trust-in-elections-face-thriving-2020-election-denier-community/ | Source: TruthOut
07:56 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: truthout.org | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://truthout.org/articles/efforts-to-build-trust-in-elections-face-thriving-2020-election-denier-community/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://truthout.org/articles/efforts-to-build-trust-in-elections-face-thriving-2020-election-denier-community/
07:56 TR Bot; Efforts to Build Trust in Elections Face Thriving 2020 Election Denier Community
07:56 matey; of course we cant say sanity anymore, it might make someone crazy
07:57 matey; but sanity is still a good design goal
07:57 matey; whatever we choose to call it
07:57 matey; corporations spread addiction as a business model
07:57 matey; i dont want prohibtion, i want sobriety to remain an option in tech
07:58 matey; but corporations are at odds with this
07:58 matey; constantly shoving new vices in everyones face
07:58 matey; but theyre just features
07:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 17.71 k/sec., IPFS upstream 63.61 average k/sec., average swarm size 283.38
07:59 matey; drunkenness is a feature, passing out and waking up in a puddle of vomit is a feature
07:59 *activelow smokes another one
07:59 matey; you should have the option of getting drunk, but its the other option that makes it an option
08:00 matey; <activelow> ACTION smokes another one <- thats a feature
08:01 matey; if i get a bottle of vodka, fortunately i get to say how much i drink too
08:01 matey; so i drink less than it takes to make me sick
08:01 matey; if microsoft sold vodka my choices would be dehydration and waking up not knowing where i was
08:02 matey; "im just thirsty"
08:02 matey; "no problem, have some vodka"
08:02 matey; if apple sold vodka it wouldnt be vodka, it would be patron
08:03 matey; not gold or silver obviously-- they would have a new one: chrome
08:04 matey; it tastes exactly like platinum patron but it smells faintly of starbucks
08:05 matey; if microsoft sold vodka my choices would be dehydration and waking up not knowing where i was <- they would buy all the water companies from nestle
08:05 matey; ban water collection (like they did in bolivia)
08:05 matey; then kill all brands of water
08:05 matey; of course a lot of people would die as a result
08:06 matey; but its not like microsofts business model doesnt kill people already
08:06 matey; https://yewtu.be/watch?v=0oMEuyhBkRo
08:07 TR Bot; Freeland - We Want Your Soul (Official Video) - Invidious
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08:14 matey; we are getting more features soon
08:15 matey; im looking around at the few things i own and realising most of them dont have bluetooth or Ng or wifi
08:15 matey; they dont even have touchscreens
08:15 matey; ive got a fan sitting on the floor, its a dumbfan, its got a manual-only switch on it
08:16 matey; im hoping to upgrade it, give it a big battery so its wireless, add a mobile plan, touchscreen controls, run linux on it
08:16 matey; why am i using just a plan old fan? its 2022!
08:17 matey; ive got doors in the place that dont even have electronics in them
08:17 matey; theyre just wood (sort of) and brass ffs
08:17 matey; wtf
08:18 matey; i dont use that much electricty, im sure i could have a wireless refrigerator
08:19 matey; im using an old corded one-- its not like they dont have batteries for this sort of thing
08:19 matey; just plug it in when it gets to 20% or better yet, move it onto a spot on the floor that can charge it wirelessly
08:20 matey; we need to live like the cybermen
08:20 matey; You Will Be Upgraded Or You Will Be Deleted
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08:22 matey; https://yewtu.be/watch?v=66xDgFJyDBk everybodys happy, everybodys free
08:22 TR Bot; Typical Situation - Invidious
08:22 matey; happiness is mandatory, freedom is also mandatory
08:24 matey; you will be free so theres no need to question it
08:24 matey; questioning whats already free makes it non-free
08:29 TR News; "police force arrested the alleged mastermind" [sic] but still no banksters? https://torrentfreak.com/freelance-torrent-site-admins-life-still-in-turmoil-5-years-after-arrest-220418/ | Source: Torrent Freak
08:29 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: torrentfreak.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://torrentfreak.com/freelance-torrent-site-admins-life-still-in-turmoil-5-years-after-arrest-220418/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://torrentfreak.com/freelance-torrent-site-admins-life-still-in-turmoil-5-years-after-arrest-220418/
08:29 TR Bot; Torrent Site Admin's Life Still in Turmoil, 5 Years After Arrest * TorrentFreak
08:29 TR News; CPUC https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/04/california-may-require-low-cost-broadband-subsidized-networks | Source: EFF
08:29 TR Bot; California May Require Low-Cost Broadband from Subsidized Networks | Electronic Frontier Foundation
08:33 TR News; Cox https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/18/cox-cable-customers-bond-together-to-fight-bullshit-fees/ | Source: Techdirt
08:33 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: techdirt.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/18/cox-cable-customers-bond-together-to-fight-bullshit-fees/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/18/cox-cable-customers-bond-together-to-fight-bullshit-fees/
08:33 TR Bot; Cable Customers Bond Together To Fight Bullshit Fees | Techdirt
08:34 TR News; Just avoid these devices. You do not need them anyway. https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/interview-with-marco-demello-psafe/ | Source: PIA
08:34 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: privateinternetaccess.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/interview-with-marco-demello-psafe/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/blog/interview-with-marco-demello-psafe/
08:34 TR Bot; Interview With Marco DeMello PSafe
08:35 TR News; Chinese Republic of Macron https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/18/french-president-again-calls-for-an-end-to-online-anonymity/ | Source: Techdirt
08:35 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: techdirt.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/18/french-president-again-calls-for-an-end-to-online-anonymity/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.techdirt.com/2022/04/18/french-president-again-calls-for-an-end-to-online-anonymity/
08:35 TR Bot; President (Again) Calls For An End To Online Anonymity | Techdirt
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08:51 TR News; How patents kill us https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/04/18/corruption-drug-patents-take-away-money | Source: Common Dreams "corruption of the patent system in recent decades"
08:51 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: commondreams.org | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/04/18/corruption-drug-patents-take-away-money https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.commondreams.org/views/2022/04/18/corruption-drug-patents-take-away-money
08:51 TR Bot; Opinion | Corruption in Drug Patents: Take Away the Money | Dean Baker
08:54 TR News; You do not need MOAR money, you need to CANCEL THE PATENTS https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/04/18/biden-urged-fight-hell-global-covid-funds-new-summit-announced | Source: Common Dreams
08:54 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: commondreams.org | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/04/18/biden-urged-fight-hell-global-covid-funds-new-summit-announced https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/04/18/biden-urged-fight-hell-global-covid-funds-new-summit-announced
08:54 TR Bot; Biden Urged to 'Fight Like Hell' for Global Covid Funds as New Summit Announced
08:54 matey; [C[Chttps://validator.w3.org/ still works, its just blocked by clownflare
08:55 matey; here is the page i got there from https://gcc.gnu.org/egcs-1.1/caveats.html
08:55 TR Bot; EGCS 1.1 Caveats - GNU Project
08:56 matey; so im pretty sure gcc.gnu.org is recommending people run non-free js now
08:56 TR News; Linux Mint Releases LMDE Upgrade Tool for Beta Testing http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163850#comment-33388
08:56 TR Bot; Beta of LMDE Upgrade Tool | Tux Machines
08:56 matey; though they also recommend a browser that blocks non-free js
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08:56 TR News; Well, mobile phones and "Freedom" are paradoxical https://fossforce.com/2022/04/is-freedom-phone-the-trump-university-of-mobile-devices/ | Source: Unicorn Media
08:56 TR Bot; Is Freedom Phone the Trump University of Mobile Devices? - FOSS Force
08:58 matey; https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Contributors.html "Tim Josling for the sample language treelang based originally on Richard Kenners toy language."
08:58 TR Bot; Contributors (Using the GNU Compiler Collection (GCC))
08:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 15.93 k/sec., IPFS upstream 103.55 average k/sec., average swarm size 241.63
08:59 TR News; IRC Proceedings: Monday, April 18, 2022 | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/04/19/irc-log-180422/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/04/19/irc-log-180422/
08:59 TR Bot; IRC Proceedings: Monday, April 18, 2022 | Techrights
09:00 matey; oh now this is rich!
09:00 matey; It was developed by Tim Josling, based on a language called Toy created by Richard Kenner. During the GCC 4.3 release cycle, a patch was committed to remove the language, because of high maintenance costs outweighing its benefits and also because it was no longer considered a good front-end example by GCC developers.
09:00 matey; a patch was committed to remove the language, because of high maintenance costs outweighing its benefits
09:00 matey; BUT SYSTEMD IS FINE!
09:00 matey; what "high maintenance costs"
09:01 matey; fancy that gcc removed it before deletopedia did https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treelang
09:01 TR Bot; Treelang - Wikipedia
09:02 matey; "Treelang is a sample language, useful only to help people understand how to implement a new language front end to GCC. It is not a useful language in itself other than as an example or basis for building a new language. Therefore only language developers are likely to have an interest in it."
09:03 TR News; On retrocomputers https://hackaday.com/2022/04/18/the-epic-journey-of-repairing-an-hp-9830a-desktop-computer-from-the-1970s/ | Source: Hackaday
09:03 TR Bot; Epic Journey Of Repairing An HP 9830A Desktop Computer From The 1970s | Hackaday
09:04 TR News; "Robotic pets are sci-fi material" https://hackaday.com/2022/04/18/build-your-own-cat-some-assembly-required/ | Source: Hackaday
09:04 TR Bot; Your Own Cat Some Assembly Required | Hackaday
09:05 SomeH4x0r; no, fuck the future
09:06 *gooseheaded (~gooseheaded@9ucczhkmm895g.irc) has joined #techrights
09:06 SomeH4x0r; it is not "happier". It brings me into further depression and I become suicidal.
09:07 TR News; Boycott Starbucks https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/04/18/starbucks-workers-urge-congress-grill-ceo-howard-schultz-union-busting | Source: Common Dreams
09:07 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: commondreams.org | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/04/18/starbucks-workers-urge-congress-grill-ceo-howard-schultz-union-busting https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/04/18/starbucks-workers-urge-congress-grill-ceo-howard-schultz-union-busting
09:07 TR Bot; Starbucks Workers Urge Congress to Grill CEO Howard Schultz on Union-Busting
09:09 SomeH4x0r; I don't really understand the purpose of a cat. It walks around one's home doing stuff necessary for its existence, such as eating food or sleeping.
09:10 SomeH4x0r; a robotic cat doesn't have this stuff. The only thing the owner should be worried about is to keep its battery charged.
09:11 matey; I don't really understand the purpose of a cat. <- it lowers blood pressure and assists immune function
09:11 TR News; "We demand a liveable future" https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/04/18/no-wars-no-warming-extinction-rebellion-marches-nyc | Source: Common Dreams
09:11 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: commondreams.org | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/04/18/no-wars-no-warming-extinction-rebellion-marches-nyc https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/04/18/no-wars-no-warming-extinction-rebellion-marches-nyc
09:11 TR Bot; 'No Wars, No Warming': Extinction Rebellion Marches on NYC
09:11 matey; also if gives you exercise when you change the box and carry around litter
09:11 matey; you have not examined a cat closely enough, therefore you are unfamiliar with its function
09:13 schestowitz-TR; [09:06] <SomeH4x0r> it is not "happier". It brings me into further depression and I become suicidal.
09:13 schestowitz-TR; Join good causes
09:13 matey; https://fs.blog/chestertons-fence/ In its most concise version, Chesterton's Fence states the following: Do not remove a fence until you know why it was put up in the first place. Chesterton went on to explain why this principle holds true, writing that fences don't grow out of the ground, nor do people build them in their sleep or during a fit of madness.
09:13 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: fs.blog | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://fs.blog/chestertons-fence/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://fs.blog/chestertons-fence/
09:13 TR Bot; Chestertons Fence: A Lesson in Second Order Thinking - Farnam Street
09:13 schestowitz-TR; to change or ameliorate the future
09:13 schestowitz-TR; the sadists rely on obedient sons00mer
09:14 matey; chestertons fence gives people too much credit, and is otherwise a reasonable maxim
09:15 TR News; "It is time to reignite the radical history of community utilities" https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/04/18/report-details-how-community-utilities-can-usher-green-energy-transition | Source: Common Dreams
09:15 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: commondreams.org | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/04/18/report-details-how-community-utilities-can-usher-green-energy-transition https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/04/18/report-details-how-community-utilities-can-usher-green-energy-transition
09:15 TR Bot; Report Details How Community Utilities Can Usher In Green Energy Transition
09:15 matey; Melvin Edward Conway is a computer scientist, computer programmer, and hacker who coined what is now known as Conway's law: "Organizations, who design systems, are constrained to produce designs which are copies of the communication structures of these organizations." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melvin_Conway
09:15 TR Bot; Melvin Conway - Wikipedia
09:16 matey; https://libreplanet.org/wiki/LibrePlanet:Participate "Add this box to your profile page to indicate you support these documents and agree to work in accordance with LibrePlanet's Mission Statement and Code of Conduct."
09:16 TR Bot; LibrePlanet:Participate - LibrePlanet
09:16 matey; we are fucked
09:16 TR News; "Movie Prop Electronics Hack Chat" https://hackaday.com/2022/04/18/movie-prop-electronics-hack-chat/ | Source: Hackaday
09:16 TR Bot; Prop Electronics Hack Chat | Hackaday
09:18 matey; conways law makes codes of conduct a lot more menacing
09:18 TR News; "While its true that Hackaday scribes and their families are sadly unable to compete in our contests, Hackaday alum are more than welcome to throw their hat in the ring." https://hackaday.com/2022/04/18/2022-sci-fi-contest-schrodingers-trigger-is-trained-on-electrons-not-cats/ | Source: Hackaday
09:18 TR Bot; Sci-Fi Contest: Schrdingers Trigger Is Trained On Electrons, Not Cats | Hackaday
09:18 matey; as if they werent enough already
09:18 schestowitz-TR; CoC Rule #1:
09:18 schestowitz-TR; you cannot question the CoC
09:18 schestowitz-TR; OED
09:19 schestowitz-TR; CoCCCers 2017: don't worry, we are protecting minorities
09:19 schestowitz-TR; CoCCCers 2021: we need tro protect LF STAFF... from "unprofessional" words
09:19 matey; CoCCCers 2022: April LibrePlanet is separate but equal
09:20 schestowitz-TR; did you see the #fsf channel during rms talk?
09:20 schestowitz-TR; it was not pleasant
09:20 schestowitz-TR; people flooding the channel with things like "n**** n**** n**** n****n****n****n****n****n****"
09:20 schestowitz-TR; multi line
09:20 schestowitz-TR; it was not n****
09:20 schestowitz-TR; and it was all CAPS
09:21 schestowitz-TR; so it turned out Libera Chat having a CoC they're so proud of did not prevent vandalism
09:21 schestowitz-TR; who would have THUNK DAT!
09:22 TR News; BillBC https://hackaday.com/2022/04/18/honey-did-you-feed-the-lamp-company-wants-to-create-living-light-bulbs/ | Source: Hackaday
09:22 TR Bot; Did You Feed The Lamp? Company Wants To Create Living Light Bulbs | Hackaday
09:24 matey; <schestowitz-TR> so it turned out Libera Chat having a CoC they're so proud of did not prevent vandalism <- nor did all-rights-reserved and license notices on his personal website prevent anything from being taken out of context
09:24 matey; licenses do not protect context
09:24 matey; anymore than drm protects sales
09:28 matey; licenses work better on the whole than on snippets
09:28 matey; no license really affects snippets, and yet its invariably snippets that are used to take things out of context
09:29 matey; the more of a work you include, the more context you include, and the more you need a license to create a derivative work
09:29 schestowitz-TR; matey: yes, you've hit the nail on the head
09:29 schestowitz-TR; basically
09:29 schestowitz-TR; some words on paper
09:29 schestowitz-TR; do not beget behaviour
09:30 matey; i can create an entirely new work, slap stallmans name on it, and licenses dont enter into it
09:30 schestowitz-TR; not do laws you can barely enforce
09:30 matey; of course its fraud-- but its not a license violation
09:30 *gooseheaded has quit (connection closed)
09:30 schestowitz-TR; "who yoooou gonna sue, PUNK?"
09:30 *SomeH4x0r has quit (connection closed)
09:30 matey; <schestowitz-TR> some words on paper <schestowitz-TR> do not beget behaviour <- this is actually an overly broad interpretation of what i was saying
09:31 schestowitz-TR; no, no
09:31 matey; what i was saying was that context is outside the scope of what a license is capable of doing
09:31 schestowitz-TR; this is not you
09:31 schestowitz-TR; that's me
09:31 matey; okay
09:31 schestowitz-TR; words on paper = lawyers, MBA, politician
09:31 schestowitz-TR; technicians don't think like this
09:31 schestowitz-TR; they make solutions
09:31 matey; there actually are some things that can help though
09:31 matey; lawyers believe it or not, also make solutions
09:31 matey; its just a question of what youre trying to solve
09:32 matey; and the right tool for the job
09:32 TR News; Ubuntu 22.04 LTS Vs Ubuntu 20.04 LTS: Whats Changing? Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163879
09:32 TR Bot; Ubuntu 22.04 LTS Vs Ubuntu 20.04 LTS: What's Changing? | Tux Machines
09:32 matey; lawyers enjoy creaeting tools that do weird things
09:32 schestowitz-TR; OK, I need to think of an example here. Sill thinking...
09:33 schestowitz-TR; Take speech restrictions
09:33 matey; mmhmm
09:33 schestowitz-TR; A lawyer can issue papers to threaten some bad outcome
09:33 matey; that would never happen
09:33 matey; /me is being funny
09:33 schestowitz-TR; shadowbans are a bad technical counterargument
09:34 mjg59_; What's the technical solution for preventing transphobia?
09:34 matey; What's the technical solution for preventing transphobia? <- make everybody trans
09:34 schestowitz-TR; Debian and ICBM tried a lot to silence some Fedora and Debian volunteer
09:34 matey; i didnt say it was ethical, just that it would technically work
09:34 mjg59_; schestowitz-TR: That's a gross mischaracterisation of the Pocock situation
09:34 schestowitz-TR; But for both ICBM and Debian it mostly backfires
09:35 matey; also it wouldnt be 100% effective because yknow, self-hate etc
09:35 schestowitz-TR; and results in further escalations in tone
09:35 schestowitz-TR; and in style
09:35 schestowitz-TR; to the point where the style repels me
09:35 schestowitz-TR; but in the process is damages the brands
09:35 mjg59_; matey: Right, thinking about these problems purely from the perspective of a technologist doesn't work - social problems frequently require social solutions
09:35 schestowitz-TR; both Debian's and ICBM's
09:35 matey; thinking about these problems purely from the perspective of a technologist doesn't work <- we are on the same page with that
09:35 schestowitz-TR; if they were smart about this, they would seek a resolution years ago
09:36 schestowitz-TR; but they were run by total moroms
09:36 schestowitz-TR; and then some more morons
09:36 schestowitz-TR; looking tro blindly defend prior morons
09:36 schestowitz-TR; so we can morontocracy
09:36 matey; "prior morons" sounds like the sort of term youd come up with after reading too many epo discussions
09:36 matey; "whats your justification for such a remark"
09:36 matey; "im sorry about that, there are prior morons"
09:37 schestowitz-TR; matey: yes, EPO always
09:37 schestowitz-TR; corrupt officials only leave other corrupt officials in charg
09:37 *SomeH4x0r (~someh4xx@uyycfdpcfwkrc.irc) has joined #techrights
09:37 schestowitz-TR; otherwise people might be held accountable
09:37 matey; broken window legal theory
09:37 mjg59_; CoCs are not intended to directly solve social problems, they're intended to provide a framework where a subset of social problems can be handled in a defined way rather than nobody knowing how to respond
09:37 schestowitz-TR; you could call it that
09:37 schestowitz-TR; but all in all this results in kakistocracy
09:37 schestowitz-TR; and dooms the org/company
09:38 matey; CoCs are not intended to directly solve social problems, they're intended to provide a framework where a subset of social problems can be handled in a defined way rather than nobody knowing how to respond <- we can however, use technological thinking to illustration some SPECTACULAR failures in how well this works
09:38 schestowitz-TR; like companies hiring CFOs to cover up the morbid state
09:38 schestowitz-TR; and thus doing nothing to prevent or reverse the demise
09:38 matey; even if there are problems that technological thinking doesnt solve well
09:38 schestowitz-TR; just kicking the can further down the road
09:38 schestowitz-TR; CoCs have destroyed projects
09:39 schestowitz-TR; because people misused them
09:39 schestowitz-TR; they gave too much power to reckless people
09:39 matey; the "we have a problem" "heres a solution" "okay its fixed lets ignore any problems with the solution" approach applies to technology and social issues
09:39 schestowitz-TR; who never had power
09:39 matey; but with social issues it really finds its niche
09:39 schestowitz-TR; and didn't know how to handle power
09:39 mjg59_; Projects that didn't have CoCs have died because nobody was willing to work with them
09:39 schestowitz-TR; and went about hitting the hammer on anything they found mildly inconvenient
09:39 schestowitz-TR; not foreseeing what this can entail
09:39 schestowitz-TR; LF is like this now
09:39 schestowitz-TR; and people are seeing that
09:40 schestowitz-TR; LF is , at thig point,a leech sucking up to corporations
09:40 *gooseheaded (~gooseheaded@idx2hgwaipuwq.irc) has joined #techrights
09:40 matey; "Projects that didn't have CoCs have died because nobody was willing to work with them" <- this sounds suspiciously 1. untrue and 2. like another fallacious argument that open source makes about projects and their viability
09:40 schestowitz-TR; and the corporations will toss it out the moment LF is no longer "useful" to them
09:40 matey; when i say "like another fallacious argument" this is an understatement
09:40 matey; projects die for ALL SORTS of reasons. sometimes they are killed.
09:41 matey; in other words, foul play DOES exist
09:41 schestowitz-TR; self-fulfilling prophecy
09:41 schestowitz-TR; let's set up a social control media mob
09:41 schestowitz-TR; attack p-eople who don't agree with us
09:41 matey; more like kill projects and then blame your opponents.
09:41 schestowitz-TR; and then it's "proof"
09:42 matey; although i wouldnt imagine this explains everything
09:42 matey; there probably are loads of projects that only attract social justice warrior types in the first place
09:42 matey; those im sure, would die without a coc.
09:42 matey; but you could just as easily s/coc/github/ and say projects die without that too
09:43 matey; and thats why github has taken over
09:43 matey; and it would be, for some value of-- utter bullshit.
09:43 matey; its network effects, posing as necessity
09:43 matey; by the same argument, we need facebook.
09:43 matey; and various other crap that does more harm than good.
09:44 matey; at the core is survivorship bias-- but its more sinister than that
09:44 matey; its marketing.
09:45 matey; x died because they refused to use alternatives to android
09:45 matey; thats why we need facial recognition.
09:46 matey; the problem with cocs isnt what they try to accomplish
09:46 matey; its the side effects
09:46 matey; like im not against curing hiv, but if the cure makes your fucking head fall off, its not very useful
09:47 matey; also im vaxxed, so
09:47 matey; just wanted to point that out
09:47 matey; im not particularly thrilled that im a medical experiment, though im not dead, so theres that
09:48 *gooseheaded has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)
09:51 matey; <matey> the problem with cocs isnt what they try to accomplish <- actually this is half true
09:51 matey; theyre really just fucking horribly designed, and ride their good intentions all the way to hell
09:52 matey; theres 100 years of debate that would warn a more reasonable person against such a scheme, without ever having an iota of anything against the (higher) goals
09:53 matey; because it would be hijacked and used against people who are JUST AS GOOD as the people they aim to help
09:53 matey; but cocs arent written in a way that allows diversity
09:53 matey; theyre written in a way that makes diversity a crime, and conformity a virtue
09:54 matey; and in practice provide a wedge that MUST be used wherever it fits
09:54 matey; the wording right on the thing says otherwise. and yet, here is practice to show how much that means in the real world
09:55 matey; how do things turn into their exact opposite? poor planning, poor design, poor followup
09:55 matey; the perfect storm for convenient bullshit
09:55 matey; throw in a poor understanding of history, as these things are comprised mostly of lessons that could have been learned by now
09:56 matey; but like technologists, people get this idea that an idea is new because they havent been around long enough
09:56 matey; "its the same idea, its the same idea"-- eddie izzard (who now claims to be trans, which is fine with me)
09:57 matey; i believe he uses the same pronouns and hes not the most common sort of trans person, but ive always liked him and hoped to speak of him in a way that would make him happy
09:57 matey; hes spent his career making fun of a LOT of stupid ideas. like wwii.
09:58 matey; but of course it was a good idea! we had to go do wwii because of hitler
09:58 matey; wrong
09:58 matey; wwii was a bandage over a very long series of FUCKING AWFUL ideas
09:58 matey; like supporting hitler in the first place
09:59 matey; its about as good an idea as stabbing yourself in the arm repeatedly and then tying a tourniqet around it
09:59 matey; try not stabbing yourself over and over in the arm if you get the chance
10:00 matey; once you have of course, youll need to take measures
10:00 matey; wwii was one of the dumbest things humanity ever did
10:00 matey; why? because we could have avoided it.
10:01 matey; think about the number of times we had to fuck up royally just to end up in a situation where wwii was a reasonable response
10:02 matey; and im not just saying hindsight is 2020
10:02 matey; im saying not being the worlds dumbest species isnt that hard
10:02 matey; just stop doing the dumbest shit possible, thats a good start
10:02 matey; might have been enough to avoid wwii actually
10:04 matey; companies like microsoft do well because society likes to do the dumbest shit it can over and over and then say:
10:04 matey; "oh shit, NOW what do we do?"
10:05 matey; well, do a bunch of really stupid things, someone will come up with a bunch of really dumb solutions
10:05 matey; nice little feedback loop
10:06 matey; the security on my fan is pretty good by the way
10:06 matey; no wifi, no mobile network, no li-ion batteries
10:06 matey; add a bunch of dumb shit to it, and now we have more problems to solve
10:07 matey; that will take "better solutions"
10:07 matey; of course this would NEVER happen to free software
10:07 matey; its impossible, people would just remove it.
10:08 matey; Melvin Edward Conway is a computer scientist, computer programmer, and hacker who coined what is now known as Conway's law: "Organizations, who design systems, are constrained to produce designs which are copies of the communication structures of these organizations." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melvin_Conway
10:08 TR Bot; Melvin Conway - Wikipedia
10:09 matey; the fates of gnu and the fsf are closely linked, how much so time will tell
10:09 matey; oliva obviously never heard of conways law
10:10 matey; neither did rms, because he would understand the threat ibm poses to gcc
10:10 matey; he would have understood it even before ibm bought red hat
10:11 TR News; The Great Resignation Is a Great Exaggeration https://www.thenation.com/article/economy/great-resignation-workers/ the crooks who run the system pretend that the system failing is the fault of its VICTIMS!
10:11 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: thenation.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.thenation.com/article/economy/great-resignation-workers/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.thenation.com/article/economy/great-resignation-workers/
10:11 TR Bot; The Great Resignation Is a Great Exaggeration | The Nation
10:11 TR News; The sociopaths who run ICBM constantly blame the staff, esp. senior staff, for the company's demise. ICBM also spreads many ruinous lies, not only buzzwords.
10:12 matey; he might have even understood the threat the fsf poses to it
10:12 matey; and here we are
10:13 matey; here is an extreme interpretation of free software + conways law
10:13 TR News; ICBM supports the free software community like viruses support vaccines. You know who emulates who....
10:13 matey; "dont let corporations control users. let a small non-profit with a few thousand members do that instead"
10:14 matey; "but we dont want to control users!"
10:14 matey; okay, so dont!
10:27 *gooseheaded (~gooseheaded@9ucczhkmm895g.irc) has joined #techrights
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10:47 TR News; "Last years allocation came at zero cost to the United States, and has proved invaluable for developing countries around the world." https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/04/18/righting-the-record-claims-that-sdrs-help-us-enemies-are-baseless/ | Source: Counter Punch
10:47 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: counterpunch.org | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/04/18/righting-the-record-claims-that-sdrs-help-us-enemies-are-baseless/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/04/18/righting-the-record-claims-that-sdrs-help-us-enemies-are-baseless/
10:47 TR Bot; the Record: Claims that SDRs Help US Enemies Are Baseless - CounterPunch.org
10:49 AltLink_c52c; [:T] SomeH4x0r https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/98432
10:49 TR Bot; Cat Owners Have Lower Heart Attack Risk, Study
10:49 SomeH4x0r; hi, are you bot?
10:50 AltLink_c52c; [:T] Every person who use Linux already own a cat. $ cat
10:50 schestowitz_log__; which cat
10:51 AltLink_c52c; [:T] $ which cat -- /bin/cat
10:51 schestowitz_log__; AltLink_97e: richer people have pets
10:51 AltLink_97e; https://framagit.org/dCF/deCloudflare/-/issues/34
10:51 AltLink_c52c; New Issue | richer people have pets | https://framagit.org/dCF/deCloudflare/-/issues/34
10:51 TR Bot; richer people have pets (#34) Issues Crimeflare / deCloudflare GitLab
10:51 schestowitz_log__; and richer people have better health
10:51 matey; rofl
10:52 schestowitz_log__; AltLink_97e: lol my ticket system was hijacked by RUSSIANS!!
10:52 SomeH4x0r; do I have higher risk of heart attack if I'm depressed?
10:52 AltLink_97e; schestowitz_log__, why?
10:54 schestowitz; Confucius Says man who depress risk heart attack
10:54 schestowitz; Confucius Says man who dead cannot get heart attack
10:55 matey; AltLink_97e: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=_yeaFPSrJ5E
10:55 TR Bot; DIY voice control robot using arduino || VD Tech Creator - Invidious
10:56 TR News; Steam Deck Client Update out, plus Valve dev clarifies a tweak for Gaming Mode | GamingOnLinux https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/04/steam-deck-client-update-out-plus-valve-dev-clarifies-a-tweak-for-gaming-mode/ Source: Gaming On Linux | GNU | Linux | Games
10:56 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: gamingonlinux.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/04/steam-deck-client-update-out-plus-valve-dev-clarifies-a-tweak-for-gaming-mode/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/04/steam-deck-client-update-out-plus-valve-dev-clarifies-a-tweak-for-gaming-mode/
10:56 TR Bot; Deck Client Update out, plus Valve dev clarifies a tweak for Gaming Mode | GamingOnLinux
10:56 schestowitz; Confucius Says man who has friends has support network
10:56 schestowitz; Confucius Says man who has kids has network to support
10:57 SomeH4x0r; IRC network support
10:57 SomeH4x0r; being an admin
10:57 schestowitz; hello, how can I help|?
10:57 matey; computer says no
10:57 SomeH4x0r; I have "/uplink" for "Hello. Do you need any Uplink help?" which I send on UplinkIRC sometimes a few times a day, when players join.
10:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 22.66 k/sec., IPFS upstream 46.31 average k/sec., average swarm size 291.05
11:00 matey; ConfuciusConf 2022
11:01 schestowitz; sponsored by MetaBook
11:02 matey; "if the mat was not straight, the main would not sit"
11:03 matey; later he was cancelled for not being lgbt-friendly
11:03 TR News; Game manager Lutris continues Flatpak improvements | GamingOnLinux https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/04/game-manager-lutris-continues-flatpak-improvements/ Source: Gaming On Linux | GNU | Linux | Games
11:03 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: gamingonlinux.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/04/game-manager-lutris-continues-flatpak-improvements/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/04/game-manager-lutris-continues-flatpak-improvements/
11:03 TR Bot; manager Lutris continues Flatpak improvements | GamingOnLinux
11:03 matey; "i didnt mean that kind of straight"
11:04 TR News; "Between 2022-04-12 and 2022-04-19 there were 21 New Steam games released with Native Linux clients. For reference, during the same time, there were 190 games released for Windows on Steam, so the Linux versions represent about 11.1 % of total released titles." https://boilingsteam.com/new-steam-games-native-linux-2022-04-19/
11:04 TR Bot; New Steam Games with Native Linux Clients - 2022-04-19 Edition - Boiling Steam
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11:07 TR News; Puppy Linux A Collection of Multiple Linux Distributions Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163880
11:07 TR Bot; Puppy Linux A Collection of Multiple Linux Distributions | Tux Machines
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11:36 TR News; SkiffOS minimal Linux for embedded containers now supports Sipeed Nezha RISC-V board Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163881
11:36 TR Bot; SkiffOS minimal Linux for embedded containers now supports Sipeed Nezha RISC-V board | Tux Machines
11:36 TR News; Games:Steam, Lutris, and Portal 3 Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163882
11:36 TR Bot; Games:Steam, Lutris, and Portal 3 | Tux Machines
11:36 TR News; 5 Best Free and Open Source C# Object-Relational Mapping Software Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163883
11:36 TR Bot; 5 Best Free and Open Source C# Object-Relational Mapping Software | Tux Machines
11:36 TR News; Google #Android Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163884
11:36 TR Bot; Android Leftovers | Tux Machines
11:38 schestowitz-TR; [11:03] <matey> later he was cancelled for not being lgbt-friendly
11:38 schestowitz-TR; I didn't get the joke
11:38 schestowitz-TR; anyway, you left out the q and the plus
11:38 schestowitz-TR; that's not inclusive enough
11:39 schestowitz-TR; Confucius jokes are always good
11:39 schestowitz-TR; but soon it'll be considered racist
11:39 schestowitz-TR; Confucius is old, not white, at least Confucius is male
11:39 schestowitz-TR; so maybe it's OK to joke about Confucius
11:39 schestowitz-TR; "fucking dinobaby!" =>ICBM
11:43 schestowitz; I bet ICBM calls RMS dinobaby internally :-) http://techrights.org/wiki/IBM#Ageism
11:43 TR Bot; IBM - Techrights
11:43 schestowitz; ICBM is all abouti inclusion
11:43 schestowitz; except old people
11:43 schestowitz; "die already motherfucker" -ICBM shareholders
11:43 schestowitz; no li,e no pension
11:43 schestowitz; *life
11:44 schestowitz; tghey got sued for drivbing older people to suicide
11:44 schestowitz; nice company
11:44 schestowitz; run a hate campaign against RMS
11:44 schestowitz; taking out of context cultural references from the 70s
11:44 schestowitz; like rocky horror show
11:45 *bnchs (~bnchs@xt2erdtrfhfy4.irc) has joined #techrights
11:46 schestowitz; ICBM+Microsoft to our community: do you want a help with that noose?
11:46 schestowitz; "no community" -> assets up for grabs
11:46 schestowitz; "who wants to have grandpa's code?"
11:57 DaemonFC; Great, now I think I have a thermostat that's stuck open.
11:57 DaemonFC; Oh well, those aren't the end of the world.
11:57 DaemonFC; Another nuisance.
11:58 DaemonFC; schestowitz, My aunt is bipolar. My other aunt told me one time that when the bipolar aunt applied for disability, they took so long deciding on it that she got a backpay check for over $10,000.
11:59 DaemonFC; They accidentally sent it to her instead of her caseworker.
11:59 DaemonFC; That was on a Friday, and by Monday the entire thing was gone. I asked what she had spent it on and she says "She paid some guy to work on her car and stuff.". I said, "What kind of work was she having done on a car in 1980 that was $10,000?".
12:00 *gooseheaded (~gooseheaded@idx2hgwaipuwq.irc) has joined #techrights
12:00 DaemonFC; You could go buy a Mercedes, new, for about twice that.
12:00 *gooseheaded has quit (Quit: A Book which I am writing, and would love to share: https://executingreality.com/pdfs/TheNOTES/NOTES.pdf)
12:00 schestowitz-TR; Mercedes is expensive to maintain
12:00 schestowitz-TR; purchase price is just a first installment
12:00 schestowitz-TR; they sell them refurbished here for under $`10k
12:00 schestowitz-TR; across the road from our house
12:01 DaemonFC; I'm swinging by Chevy today to get that heater thing looked at.
12:01 schestowitz-TR; you got yourself a full-time job with this buick
12:01 schestowitz-TR; while mandy labours away at walton-ville
12:02 DaemonFC; Either they left some air bubbles that worked into the core yesterday, in which case, they need to burp it and I don't expect them to charge me, or something stupid is going on with the thermostat most likely.
12:02 DaemonFC; Oh, GM decided to put coolant pipes in a tensioner.
12:02 DaemonFC; <schestowitz-TR> Mercedes is expensive to maintain
12:02 DaemonFC; Yes, which is why they lose 80% of their retail value in three years.
12:02 TR News; Linux Mint's Upgrade Tool is now available for beta testing http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163852#comment-33389
12:02 TR Bot; Linux Mints New Upgrade Tool Enters Public Beta Testing, Heres How to Use It | Tux Machines
12:02 DaemonFC; The original owner doesn't want to be anywhere near it when it goes bad.
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12:03 DaemonFC; schestowitz-TR, Leaving a car sitting can be as bad or worse than driving it.
12:03 DaemonFC; All sorts of stuff gets gunked up and rots.
12:04 DaemonFC; It's possible that flushing the coolant just went ahead and crapped up the thermostat, I suppose.
12:04 DaemonFC; They're made so that they try to stick open if they fail.
12:04 DaemonFC; Then the most common thing you'll notice is your heater starts working poorly.
12:04 *Skywave (~SkywaveC3@fici29dumxqp6.irc) has joined #techrights
12:05 DaemonFC; A few days ago the heater was working so well it would burn you out of the car.
12:05 DaemonFC; So I think that it's not the core.
12:05 DaemonFC; There's no signs that it would be the core.
12:06 DaemonFC; The core usually fails, and not only does the heat go out entirely (while mine is blowing lukewarm air now), but you start hearing coolant sloshing around in it, or smelling coolant, or ending up with coolant on the floorboard of your car (at which point you definitely smell it).
12:06 DaemonFC; It's one of those things that just sort of works or it doesn't.
12:07 DaemonFC; This morning, the heater was blowing lukewarm and the engine temperature gauge was on the colder side, which screams stuck open thermostat to me.
12:07 DaemonFC; The engine warms up but not enough to reach ideal operating temperature, and as a result, your coolant never gets hot enough to put out old lady heat on you.
12:08 DaemonFC; So there's a few things it could be that are stupid and relatively inexpensive before we start talking about a core.
12:08 schestowitz-TR; she should have paid you to take it OFF her palms
12:08 DaemonFC; Well, this is always how buying a used car goes.
12:08 schestowitz-TR; seeing what a nanny-begging bag of shit this car is
12:08 schestowitz-TR; it's an impala with a designer purse
12:09 DaemonFC; schestowitz-TR, People buy them and then if you ask for service records you're lucky if they can pull out Midas oil change receipts.
12:09 DaemonFC; People don't take care of their stuff.
12:09 schestowitz-TR; do with I do:
12:09 schestowitz-TR; order a taxi if you need one
12:09 DaemonFC; Eventually, you work through the problems you didn't notice when you bought it and it works okay for a while.
12:09 schestowitz-TR; it's a lot cheaper and less trouble
12:10 schestowitz-TR; it also provides local jobs
12:10 schestowitz-TR; just make sure it doesn't say "lyft" or "uber" on it
12:10 schestowitz-TR; that's saudi
12:10 DaemonFC; schestowitz-TR, Well, the dealer is more expensive than an independent or chain shop....
12:10 DaemonFC; But those chain places and independents seem to mostly hire younger mechanics who don't want very much salary.
12:11 DaemonFC; Then you get what you pay for because they're constantly misdiagnosing problems or calling it and tapping out and handing you the car back because it'll take too long to diagnose.
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12:13 DaemonFC; Just one or two misdiagnosed problems that lead to incorrect or incompetent repair can cost you more than paying the dealer a bit higher labor hours to fix it right the first time.
12:13 DaemonFC; For maybe $25 more per labor hour, you're much less likely to get someone throwing parts at it.
12:14 DaemonFC; schestowitz-TR, There's no way I'm replacing a TPMS sensor at the dealer though.
12:14 DaemonFC; I can go over to Discount Tire and pay $63.75 and have them replace the malfunctioning sensor and save $100.
12:15 DaemonFC; A good rule of thumb is if it's simple, go to an independent or a chain, if you can like, you know, point at it and say "That's the problem! Replace THAT!" and you're sure.
12:15 DaemonFC; But if it's complicated, some of those less trained mechanics might do thousands in unneeded parts replacement while your car is still doing the thing.
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12:17 DaemonFC; More suitable jobs for less trained mechanics might include tires, tire sensors, fluid changes (but not at Jiffy Lube), brake jobs, and engine trouble codes that have an obvious cause. Right? Like "O2 sensor bank 2 failure" or "Problem with EGR system".
12:17 DaemonFC; Don't go to the dealer for that.
12:18 DaemonFC; If something is going to possibly involve an expensive job where numerous cheaper things may actually be to blame, go to the dealer and pay for a diagnostic.
12:18 DaemonFC; Because if the mechanic starts guessing, sucks to be you.
12:22 schestowitz-TR; when it comes to cars, each small fix costs like a new computer
12:22 schestowitz-TR; when it comes to homes, each fix (new room, new kitchen) costs like a new car
12:22 schestowitz-TR; of course you can avoid both
12:24 DaemonFC; With car repair costs, that's exactly why you don't want the "guessing mechanic" problem.
12:24 DaemonFC; They also might do other things to run up the tab that a dealership probably won't do.
12:24 TR News; Links 19/04/2022: The state of the Free Software movement and SkiffOS | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/04/19/skiffos/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/04/19/skiffos/
12:24 TR Bot; Links 19/04/2022: The state of the Free Software movement and SkiffOS | Techrights
12:25 DaemonFC; Like come out and tell you your car will explode if you don't replace a list of things there's nothing wrong with.
12:25 schestowitz-TR; honest mechanic
12:25 schestowitz-TR; poor lawyer
12:26 schestowitz-TR; well-meaning politician
12:26 schestowitz-TR; nice landlord
12:26 schestowitz-TR; good luck finding them
12:26 schestowitz-TR; oh, the gentle taxi driver
12:26 schestowitz-TR; they're aggressive on the road
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12:29 TR News; SHAME ON YOU SHAME SHAME SHAME W3C!!!!! To use your site I need to go through ClownFlare, which gives me CAPTCHAs (do I need to help them, train "HEY HI" by clicking trains?). Does w3C give a SHIT about BLIND PEOPLE? "Provide feedback on the hCaptcha you just saw..." oh, yeah, just send blind people jumping through hoops now. The Web has become an expression of hatred against disabled people.
12:29 SomeH4x0r; so it *did* outsource now?
12:30 TR News; Who is running W3C? DRM pushers and Pentagon contractors who commit crimes. IOW, it increasingly seems like the Web is controlled by mobsters and crooks. Don't participate in their little sandbox. Explode Gemini.
12:30 TR News; Who is running W3C? DRM pushers and Pentagon contractors who commit crimes. IOW, it increasingly seems like the Web is controlled by mobsters and crooks. Don't participate in their little sandbox. Explore Gemini instead.
12:30 DaemonFC; schestowitz-TR, Yeah, like if you go in because your car says bank one oxygen sensor.
12:30 TR News; Programming Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163885
12:30 TR Bot; Programming Leftovers | Tux Machines
12:30 DaemonFC; And the guy comes out with a list of 12 engine problems that the car wasn't even complaining about...
12:30 DaemonFC; Go somewhere else.
12:31 TR News; Open Hardware/Modding Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163886
12:31 TR Bot; Open Hardware/Modding Leftovers | Tux Machines
12:31 TR News; Todays #HowTos | #UNIX Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163887
12:31 TR Bot; today's howtos | Tux Machines
12:31 DaemonFC; Don't even tell them what the first guy said.
12:31 TR News; Todays Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163888
12:31 TR Bot; today's leftovers | Tux Machines
12:31 DaemonFC; Eventually you'll get someone ho just replaces that sensor and then all your problems are gone again and the other 11 things were bullshit.
12:31 DaemonFC; They have to bullshit at independents because they work on commissions.
12:31 DaemonFC; They don't get paid well unless they stuff the bill.
12:32 DaemonFC; So they do!
12:32 schestowitz-TR; SomeH4x0r: not just now
12:32 schestowitz-TR; a few months ago
12:32 schestowitz-TR; but it got WORSE
12:32 DaemonFC; And then it doesn't matter anymore what each job costs, because they recommend a lot of unnecessary services.
12:32 DaemonFC; Anyway....bbiab.
12:32 schestowitz-TR; now I need to solve CAPTCHAs
12:32 *DaemonFC has quit (Quit: Leaving)
12:32 schestowitz-TR; w3c!!!
12:32 schestowitz-TR; fucking w3c!!
12:33 schestowitz-TR; That's like the Olympic committee pushing mcdonalds and coca cola
12:33 schestowitz-TR; ohm wait a sec...
12:33 schestowitz-TR; (it does)
12:33 schestowitz-TR; w3c: adhere to WEB STANDARDS!!!
12:33 schestowitz-TR; w3c passing DRM (EME) as a standard!!!)
12:34 schestowitz-TR; these ***ers should be buried along with the Web
12:34 schestowitz-TR; the web became not a web
12:34 schestowitz-TR; but a family of proprietary browsers
12:34 *GNUmoon2 has quit (connection closed)
12:34 *GNUmoon has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
12:34 schestowitz-TR; that act as little but a VM/canvas with malware running in it
12:34 schestowitz-TR; complete with DRM
12:35 schestowitz-TR; because criminals aren't the companies but the users/clients of those companies
12:35 *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights
12:35 *GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@cbwgpji3y5p7s.irc) has joined #techrights
12:35 schestowitz-TR; and the browsers should treat them all as "pirates" (their term)
12:36 schestowitz-TR; VM/malware container (aka "Web browser"): we cannot let you visit this page
12:36 schestowitz-TR; you: WHY?
12:36 schestowitz-TR; VM/malware container (aka "Web browser"): Zemlin with Microsoft's fist up his back end, jumping for Pentagon dollars while Ukraine is bombed to rubble, says your Web site must register with his pyramid scheme
12:36 schestowitz-TR; to be "trusted" ("permitted to operate") site
12:38 TR News; Todo Lists gemini://ainent.xyz/gemlog/2022-04-18-todo-lists.gmi "I read through most of the documentation before starting this migration in earnest, and was actually a bit overwhelmed. This tool is *huge*. You can configure (per command or with a configuration file) *everything* and add metadata for anything"
12:38 bnchs; schestowitz-TR, EME helped lock out other browsers
12:39 bnchs; google widevine is the most used DRM scheme that supports EME
12:39 schestowitz-TR; esp. the "nastry" (freedom-respecting) ones
12:39 schestowitz-TR; Gulag wants us all back in the gulag
12:39 schestowitz-TR; it can settle on Firefox too, for now
12:39 *gooseheaded (~gooseheaded@idx2hgwaipuwq.irc) has joined #techrights
12:39 schestowitz-TR; because it has us herded in that, too
12:40 schestowitz-TR; vanilla firedox does NOTHING to protect from spying and ads
12:40 schestowitz-TR; use librewolf instead
12:40 schestowitz-TR; if you need gecko
12:40 schestowitz-TR; don't use even Firefox clones
12:40 schestowitz-TR; netsurf is OK
12:41 TR News; "Everyone felt heard, nobody interrupted each other (well they did a bit, but the timekeeper added more time to account for it), and we suffered far less repetition. When a subject arose I didn't have any care for, I remained silent, which shortened the debate." gemini://malinfreeborn.com/gen/symposium.gmi
12:41 bnchs; you can choose not to implement EME
12:42 TR News; "Further to my post Why i like mdoc(7) for man pages[a], i've now written a quickstart guide to encourage people to use mdoc(7)[b] when authoring man pages." gemini://republic.circumlunar.space/users/flexibeast/gemlog/2022-04-19.gmi
12:42 bnchs; and get people complain about netflix not working
12:42 bnchs; or their DRM bullshit
12:42 schestowitz-TR; netflix is a bit of a bubble
12:42 schestowitz-TR; and here's why
12:42 schestowitz-TR; there are more companies entering the same space
12:42 schestowitz-TR; streaming+drm
12:42 schestowitz-TR; like disney+
12:42 bnchs; lol
12:42 schestowitz-TR; and they can barely get people on board
12:42 schestowitz-TR; netflix wasn't profitable for a long time
12:43 bnchs; it will burst when consumers got sick of paying tons of shit
12:43 schestowitz-TR; they hope they can turn things around
12:43 schestowitz-TR; tesla the same
12:43 schestowitz-TR; barely any profits
12:43 bnchs; consumers paying for tons of streaming services
12:43 schestowitz-TR; and the other automobile companies ACTUALLY make REAL vewhicles
12:43 schestowitz-TR; not vapourware and noise
12:43 schestowitz-TR; so they lower the market value of tesla hype machine
12:43 bnchs; elon musk is the one making vaporware and noise
12:43 bnchs; and retarded memes on twitter
12:43 bnchs; he puts them on telsa
12:43 schestowitz-TR; for netflix and spotify (losses also) more competition makes them like Uber...
12:43 schestowitz-TR; an elusive dream
12:44 schestowitz-TR; many idiots can cobble together ride-sharing "apps"
12:44 schestowitz-TR; and so without monopoly power their whole business model crumbles
12:44 schestowitz-TR; gulagtube is swqueezing the goose
12:44 schestowitz-TR; and many leave
12:44 schestowitz-TR; EME on the Web will hopefully fail like music DRM
12:44 schestowitz-TR; it just drives people to sharing raw files
12:45 schestowitz-TR; and so only the "legit" "users" suffer
12:45 schestowitz-TR; netflix tries to 'tackle password sharing" (straw man) to implement price hikes
12:45 schestowitz-TR; so there's hope that enough people will say "NO!"
12:45 schestowitz-TR; or #CancelNetflix
12:45 schestowitz-TR; like FSF says
12:45 schestowitz-TR; and those companies will become toilet papes
12:45 schestowitz-TR; *paper
12:46 bnchs; people are resorting to torrenting again
12:46 schestowitz-TR; like spotify after it tried to reinvent itself as "poscast" company
12:46 schestowitz-TR; by bringing a crank onboard
12:46 schestowitz-TR; *podcast
12:46 schestowitz-TR; if not a crank, then a man who invites crank to his show
12:46 schestowitz-TR; including "pedo guy" Musk
12:46 schestowitz-TR; BTW, Twitter STILL loses money
12:46 *gooseheaded_ (~gooseheaded@idx2hgwaipuwq.irc) has joined #techrights
12:46 schestowitz-TR; Musk knows he's inreasingly hated
12:47 schestowitz-TR; he thinks running this thing at a loss (like shithub) will bring him respect
12:47 schestowitz-TR; like Microsofgt thought shithub would bring developers to windows/azure
12:47 schestowitz-TR; it did not work, or hardly
12:47 schestowitz-TR; skype was a ramp for "teams"
12:47 schestowitz-TR; and short of bribery microisoft still makes noi headway
12:47 bnchs; tesla made more vaporware than actual products
12:47 schestowitz-TR; yeah
12:47 schestowitz-TR; and it compared a whistleblower to a mass shooter
12:48 *horseface__ (~gooseheaded@9ucczhkmm895g.irc) has joined #techrights
12:48 schestowitz-TR; because he debunked the bubble of tesla being green
12:48 schestowitz-TR; musk is a dangerous monster
12:48 schestowitz-TR; even corporate shills like Garrett do not like musk
12:48 schestowitz-TR; and that tells you a lot!
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12:52 bnchs; i'm still waiting for the big cybervaporware
12:52 bnchs; i mean cyber truck
12:52 bnchs; pushed to early 2023
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12:54 schestowitz-TR; according to tweets?
12:54 schestowitz-TR; in MuskSocial?
12:55 schestowitz-TR; is that posted for customers?
12:55 schestowitz-TR; or for shareholders?
12:55 schestowitz-TR; who sold the stock and when?
12:55 schestowitz-TR; before and after the "tweets"?
12:55 bnchs; https://www.engadget.com/tesla-cybertruck-delay-2022-150309858.html
12:55 TR Bot; quietly delays Cybertruck to 2022 | Engadget
12:55 bnchs; https://www.reuters.com/technology/exclusive-tesla-delays-initial-production-cybertruck-early-2023-source-2022-01-13/
12:55 TR Bot; Tesla delays initial production of Cybertruck to early 2023 - source | Reuters
12:55 bnchs; future news: tesla delays cybertruck to 2030
12:58 bnchs; people thought early microsoft was a big vaporware maker
12:58 bnchs; but now it's tesla
12:58 schestowitz-TR; what the fork is "cybertruck"?
12:58 schestowitz-TR; I thought you were joking
12:58 schestowitz-TR; can you buy it with cybercoin?
12:58 bnchs; it's this big obviously crash-unsafe truck
12:59 bnchs; that will crumble your legs upon impact
12:59 bnchs; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Cybertruck
12:59 TR Bot; Tesla Cybertruck - Wikipedia
12:59 schestowitz-TR; CyBORG-TRUCK
12:59 schestowitz-TR; YOU WILL ASSIMILATE! YOUR LEGS TOO!!
13:00 bnchs; "Particular concerns highlighted by these two bodies include the high stiffness of the "exoskeleton" exterior resulting in a lack of crumple zones, as well as the tall, flat front of the truck, which could increase the severity of leg injuries"
13:01 *horseface__ has quit (Quit: A Book which I am writing, and would love to share: https://executingreality.com/pdfs/TheNOTES/NOTES.pdf)
13:01 bnchs; i'm pretty sure the cybertruck that was on elon's stage was a big prop
13:02 bnchs; this shit would be illegal on the streets
13:02 schestowitz-TR; just some fake product
13:03 schestowitz-TR; like elon's hair
13:03 schestowitz-TR; to keep the market manipulated
13:03 *gooseheaded (~gooseheaded@9ucczhkmm895g.irc) has joined #techrights
13:03 schestowitz-TR; and maybe he can do a PIA
13:03 schestowitz-TR; and use Musk Social to try to sell some fakecoin
13:03 bnchs; vaporware is what brings the fans
13:03 schestowitz-TR; and make his own "joseon" fakeEmpire
13:03 bnchs; "oh look he announced this cool product, he's so kewl"
13:03 schestowitz-TR; "hhhhhheeee sooo fuuunny!!"
13:06 TR News; Ubuntu 22.04: Whats New? [Video] https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2022/04/ubuntu-22-04-video-jammy-jellyfish
13:06 TR Bot; Ubuntu 22.04: What's New? [Video] - OMG! Ubuntu!
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13:16 TR News; Vim Color Schemes: How to Change and Use Them https://linuxhandbook.com/vim-color-schemes/ Source: LinuxHandbook | GNU | Linux
13:16 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: linuxhandbook.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://linuxhandbook.com/vim-color-schemes/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://linuxhandbook.com/vim-color-schemes/
13:17 TR Bot; Vim Color Schemes: How to Change and Use Them
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13:20 TR News; "its easy to think its a virus"... and it is, like Microsoft Windows itself https://www.maketecheasier.com/fix-tiworker-exe-issue/
13:20 TR Bot; How to Fix TiWorker.exe High CPU or Disk Usage Issues - Make Tech Easier
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13:32 TR News; Firmware - what are we going to do about it? Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163889
13:32 TR Bot; Firmware - what are we going to do about it? | Tux Machines
13:34 TR News; The Big GNU/Linux Switch Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163890 Now criminals from Microsoft know where to go and who to bribe (as usual): http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/162988
13:34 TR Bot; The Big Linux Switch | Tux Machines
13:34 TR Bot; Microsoft Run by Criminals, Who Expel Those Who Don't Participate in the Crimes | Tux Machines
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13:37 TR News; "Long time no see, my dear reader! I was planning a lot for this blog, as well as for the Advanced Raku For Beginners series. But you know what they say: wanna make the God laugh tell him your plans!" https://vrurg.github.io/2022/04/18/will-complain-trait
13:37 TR Bot; A New will complain Trait - LFlat, The Home of Vrurg
13:39 TR News; The Free Software community mourns the loss of Pedro Francisco (MasGNULinux) Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163891
13:39 TR Bot; The Free Software community mourns the loss of Pedro Francisco (MasGNULinux) | Tux Machines
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13:42 TR News; Todays #HowTos | #UNIX Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163892
13:42 TR Bot; today's howtos | Tux Machines
13:51 TR News; New Java Articles, Especially From Red Hat Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163893
13:51 TR Bot; New Java Articles, Especially From Red Hat | Tux Machines
13:52 TR News; Based on reports, ICBM drives workers to burnout. Maybe it should take a different company's advice? https://enterprisersproject.com/article/2022/4/burnout-5-leadership-tips
13:52 TR Bot; Burnout busters: 5 tips to give your team motivation and purpose | The Enterprisers Project
13:53 TR News; "The EC90A-GH is a compact sized computer that is designed to function as a secured AI edge computing and IoT platform." https://linuxgizmos.com/dfi-industrial-mini-pc-features-amd-ryzen-embedded-r1000-processor/
13:53 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: linuxgizmos.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://linuxgizmos.com/dfi-industrial-mini-pc-features-amd-ryzen-embedded-r1000-processor/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://linuxgizmos.com/dfi-industrial-mini-pc-features-amd-ryzen-embedded-r1000-processor/
13:53 TR Bot; ( status 520 @ https://linuxgizmos.com/dfi-industrial-mini-pc-features-amd-ryzen-embedded-r1000-processor/ )
13:54 TR News; LOL. HPC in the clown. Meaningless garbage. Redefining servers. https://ubuntu.com//blog/high-performance-computing-hpc-anywhere-part-2
13:54 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: ubuntu.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://ubuntu.com//blog/high-performance-computing-hpc-anywhere-part-2 https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://ubuntu.com//blog/high-performance-computing-hpc-anywhere-part-2
13:54 TR Bot; computing (HPC) clusters anywhere [part 2] | Ubuntu
13:56 TR News; Celebrating surveillance? Seriously? https://cloudyday.tech.blog/2022/04/19/the-wonders-of-modern-life/
13:56 TR Bot; The Wonders of Modern Life blog.theuse.net
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13:57 TR News; SysLinuxOS 11.3 is out. https://syslinuxos.com/
13:57 TR Bot; - SysLinuxOS
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13:59 TR News; Software Patents Pool. NOT the solution to the problem! https://finance.yahoo.com/news/advantest-joins-open-invention-network-090000110.html
13:59 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: yahoo.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://finance.yahoo.com/news/advantest-joins-open-invention-network-090000110.html https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://finance.yahoo.com/news/advantest-joins-open-invention-network-090000110.html
13:59 TR Bot; Advantest Joins Open Invention Network
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14:00 TR News; "about the size of a credit card and equipped with up to 32GB RAM." https://www.cnx-software.com/2022/04/19/roc-rk3588s-pc-first-rockchip-rk3588s-sbc-32gb-ram/
14:00 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: cnx-software.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.cnx-software.com/2022/04/19/roc-rk3588s-pc-first-rockchip-rk3588s-sbc-32gb-ram/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.cnx-software.com/2022/04/19/roc-rk3588s-pc-first-rockchip-rk3588s-sbc-32gb-ram/
14:00 TR Bot; ROC-RK3588S-PC is the first Rockchip RK3588S SBC, supports up to 32GB RAM - CNX Software
14:01 schestowitz-TR; psydroid2: ^^
14:02 TR News; "As we mentioned in our last blog post about OP-TEE 3.16, Bootlin planned to and contributed some interesting features in the recently released OP-TEE 3.17 ! Here is a short presentation of our contributions to this release" https://bootlin.com/blog/bootlin-contributions-to-op-tee-3-17/
14:02 TR Bot; contributions to OP-TEE 3.17 - Bootlin's blog
14:11 psydroid2; schestowitz-TR, things are becoming serious
14:12 psydroid2; if only that chip was a bit faster, but it's not that far removed from my most recent laptops
14:16 TR News; Convert Audio File Formats on Ubuntu with SoundConverter Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163894
14:16 TR Bot; Convert Audio File Formats on Ubuntu with SoundConverter | Tux Machines
14:16 schestowitz-TR; psydroid2: depends on the use case
14:18 psydroid2; RK3588 is 9 times faster than Allwinner A64, so it will be a great speedup anyway
14:22 TR News; Nushell: A Flexible Open-Source Cross-platform Shell Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163895
14:22 TR Bot; Nushell: A Flexible Open-Source Cross-platform Shell | Tux Machines
14:23 TR News; Jesse Afolabi: let's slap a new date on an article from one decade ago and give it a change... again https://www.tecmint.com/ubuntu-budgie/
14:23 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: tecmint.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.tecmint.com/ubuntu-budgie/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.tecmint.com/ubuntu-budgie/
14:23 TR Bot; Installation and Review of Ubuntu Budgie [Lightweight OS]
14:25 TR News; Skanlite A Simple Image Scanning Tool for Linux Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163896
14:25 TR Bot; Skanlite A Simple Image Scanning Tool for Linux | Tux Machines
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14:28 TR News; Anna Collard on the Essence of Improved Cybersecurity in this [buzzwords] Era https://techeconomy.ng/2022/04/anna-collard-on-the-essence-of-improved-cybersecurity-in-this-5g-era/
14:28 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: techeconomy.ng | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://techeconomy.ng/2022/04/anna-collard-on-the-essence-of-improved-cybersecurity-in-this-5g-era/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://techeconomy.ng/2022/04/anna-collard-on-the-essence-of-improved-cybersecurity-in-this-5g-era/
14:28 TR Bot; Anna Collard on the Essence of Improved Cybersecurity in this 5G Era
14:30 TR News; It seems like DebConf at least stopped accepting bribes from Microsoft criminals https://bits.debian.org/2022/04/debconf22-itp-prizren-platinum.html
14:30 TR Bot; ITP Prizren Platinum Sponsor of DebConf22 - Bits from Debian
14:31 TR News; Oh, dear. This was outsourced to Microsoft (criminals) proprietary software https://egastablog.wordpress.com/2022/04/19/fedora-media-writer-nextgen-builds-for-all-platforms/
14:31 TR Bot; Fedora MediaWriter (nextgen) on MacOS egasta Blog
14:31 TR News; IBM slave program https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedora-ambassadors-kick-off-call-wrap-up-whats-next-and-how-to-get-involved/
14:32 TR Bot; Fedora Ambassadors Kick-Off Call Wrap Up: what's next and how to get involved! Fedora Community Blog
14:32 TR News; FEX-Emu also outsourced to Microsoft (criminals) proprietary software https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=FEX-Emu-2204
14:32 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: phoronix.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=FEX-Emu-2204 https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=FEX-Emu-2204
14:32 TR Bot; 2204 Released With Fixes For Running x86/x86_64 Binaries On AArch64 - Phoronix
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14:38 TR News; "Everything that becomes popular turns to crap. So now I have to ditch DuckDuckGo and find an alternative. No, I'm not telling you what I'm moving to, lest they get enough users to dictate their terms to us. #rant" gemini://tobykurien.com/microblog.gmi DuckDuckGo was a SCAM from the get-go http://techrights.org/wiki/DuckDuckGo
14:38 TR Bot; DuckDuckGo - Techrights
14:39 TR News; "Computers were "good enough" 5 years ago, and we're still using them for the exact same purposes. So why do we have gigs of software updates every week, and why do our computers get slow and "out-of-date" every 2 years?" gemini://tobykurien.com/microblog.gmi
14:39 XRevan86; Is this about https://torrentfreak.com/duckduckgo-restores-pirate-sites-and-points-to-bing-220419/ ?
14:39 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: torrentfreak.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://torrentfreak.com/duckduckgo-restores-pirate-sites-and-points-to-bing-220419/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://torrentfreak.com/duckduckgo-restores-pirate-sites-and-points-to-bing-220419/
14:39 TR Bot; 'Restores' Pirate Sites and Points to Bing as Culprit * TorrentFreak
14:40 TR News; "We Value Your Privacy" gemini://warmedal.se/~bjorn/posts/2022-04-19-we-value-your-privacy.gmi "No you don't. If you did you wouldn't have to hand me a long list of vendors and purposes and so called "legitimate interests" (what does that even mean, anyway?) that I have to manually disable. In fact you wouldn't have any of those in the first place."
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14:41 TR News; "The long Easter weekend was a good opportunity to relax and recharge a little, and of course test gemlogging via Lagrange in the terminal." gemini://skyjake.fi/gemlog/2022-04_long-weekend.gmi
14:47 schestowitz; https://tildegit.org/solderpunk/CAPCOM/src/branch/master/capcom.py
14:47 TR Bot; CAPCOM/capcom.py at master - CAPCOM - tildegit
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15:00 TR News; ZDNet is a webspam site bribed by 'Linux' Foundation for a diploma mill ("The best Linux Foundation classes in 2022: Intro to Linux, Cloud Engineer Bootcamp, and more".) ZDNet will be gone for good in a few years... now it's just presstituting
15:03 TR News; Microsoft planning to 'spam' XBox with ads. Lacking a source of revenue. Too many units operate at a loss? There are layoffs in spite of Trump and Biden bailing out Microsoft with military (taxpayers) money...
15:04 *gooseheaded (~gooseheaded@9ucczhkmm895g.irc) has joined #techrights
15:04 TR News; Thurrott is pushing WSL again so you know. 1) WSL is indeed an ATTACK on GNU/Linux. 2) Real GNU/Linux REALLY scares Microsoft and Microsofters
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15:06 TR News; Software patents shored up by hostile corporations that create pools instead of abolishing fake patents https://www.electronicsweekly.com/news/business/advantest-joins-open-invention-network-linux-cooperation-2022-04/
15:06 TR Bot; Advantest joins Open Invention Network for Linux cooperation
15:07 TR News; While many of us fight to abolish software patents Keith Bergelt and other people who never ever use Linux are trying to 'normalise' such patents
15:08 TR News; Ukraine is crowdsourcing digital evidence of war crimes https://www.accessnow.org/digital-rights-ukraine-russia-conflict/
15:08 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: accessnow.org | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.accessnow.org/digital-rights-ukraine-russia-conflict/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.accessnow.org/digital-rights-ukraine-russia-conflict/
15:08 TR Bot; Updates: Digital rights in the Russia-Ukraine conflict - Access Now
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15:09 AltLink_c52c; [:T] w3c adhere to WEB STANDARDS // Many web-standards sites and Linux sites joined CF club.
15:09 AltLink_c52c; [:T] Letsencrypt, IETF, LinuxFoundation, Mozilla, etc
15:09 AltLink_c52c; [:T] Someone once said to us, 'when you cannot beat them join them'
15:09 AltLink_c52c; [:T] Maybe he/she is right, why boycott against it when you are already failure (sarcasm)
15:09 TR News; Internet under attack because of NATO and Russia https://www.repubblica.it/tecnologia/2022/04/15/news/i_colossi_americani_di_internet_possono_continuare_a_fare_affari_con_la_russia_e_ce_un_motivo-345500159/
15:09 TR Bot; I colossi Usa di Internet possono continuare a lavorare in Russia, e c un motivo - la Repubblica
15:11 TR News; NO! You should SHUN social control media. PROBLEM SOLVED -> "However, social media companies need to adjust their content moderation policies in order to preserve material with evidential value, and guarantee that eyewitness accounts will not be blocked for sharing content with violent elements." https://www.accessnow.org/digital-rights-ukraine-russia-conflict/
15:11 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: accessnow.org | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.accessnow.org/digital-rights-ukraine-russia-conflict/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.accessnow.org/digital-rights-ukraine-russia-conflict/
15:12 TR News; Any social control media = war propaganda machine. Scooping up spoils of war, just like the military contractors which make bombs. Wanna stop the war? Stop supporting those who PROFIT from it. http://techrights.org/2022/04/10/conflict-of-interest-epoi/
15:12 TR Bot; Conflict of Interest: Battistelli/CEIPI/EPO and AstraZeneca | Techrights
15:13 schestowitz-TR; hmmm... wrong link :/
15:13 TR News; Any social control media = war propaganda machine. Scooping up spoils of war, just like the military contractors which make bombs. Wanna stop the war? Stop supporting those who PROFIT from it. http://techrights.org/2022/03/01/twitter-happier-during-wars/
15:13 TR Bot; Twitter Profits From Conflict | Techrights
15:16 TR News; Web BLOAT is a contributor to outsourcing (to datacentres) and CDN [sic] consolidation that spies on everyone, e.g. ClownFlare. The solution should start with making the Web a lot "thinner" (or replacing it with something thin). Bloat is a convert form of vendor lockin.
15:17 TR News; I would go further and say Microsoft GitHub is iself a virus. And look who's running it: spies (NSA) and criminals. Some even got arrested recently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzoDeoSPQ0U
15:17 TR Bot; https://yt.artemislena.eu/watch?v=OzoDeoSPQ0U
15:17 TR Bot; reports incompatible or unsupported protocol version. ( status 0 @ https://yt.artemislena.eu/watch?v=OzoDeoSPQ0U )
15:18 TR News; STATEMENT ON REPEATED INTERNET SHUTDOWNS IN VARIOUS STATES IN RESPONSE TO VIOLENCE https://internetfreedom.in/statement-on-repeated-internet-shutdowns-in-various-states-in-response-to-violence/ Source: internetfreedom
15:18 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: internetfreedom.in | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://internetfreedom.in/statement-on-repeated-internet-shutdowns-in-various-states-in-response-to-violence/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://internetfreedom.in/statement-on-repeated-internet-shutdowns-in-various-states-in-response-to-violence/
15:18 TR Bot; STATEMENT ON REPEATED INTERNET SHUTDOWNS IN VARIOUS STATES IN RESPONSE TO VIOLENCE
15:22 TR News; Biden should collect footage of American war crimes, too https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2022/04/14/ukraine-russia-war-images-us-democracy-impact-technology instead, US puts in prison people who shows such footage, e.g. Assange and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdulelah_Haider_Shaye
15:22 TR Bot; How real-time images from Ukraine impact U.S. democracy
15:22 TR Bot; Abdulelah Haider Shaye - Wikipedia
15:22 TR News; Todays #HowTos | #UNIX Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163897
15:22 TR Bot; today's howtos | Tux Machines
15:23 TR News; Biden, are you against war crimes? Good. Then stop doing them.
15:24 TR News; If Biden is the world's moral compass, then the compass is broken or part of an elaborate practical joke
15:24 TR News; kernel/git/pabeni/net-next.git - pabeni net-next tree https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/pabeni/net-next.git/commit/?id=2a38de067bace34e7315ce6af027fd785c31fe0f Source: git
15:24 TR Bot; kernel/git/pabeni/net-next.git - pabeni net-next tree
15:25 TR News; kernel/git/geert/linux-m68k.git - Linux/m68k Kernel Development Tree https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/geert/linux-m68k.git/commit/?h=for-next&id=05d51e42df06f0211c7029ab9aa46c492ee85043 Source: git
15:25 TR Bot; kernel/git/geert/linux-m68k.git - Linux/m68k Kernel Development Tree
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15:28 TR News; Adobe reminding us why proprietary software should be avoided https://palant.info/2022/04/19/adobe-acrobat-hollowing-out-same-origin-policy/
15:28 TR Bot; Adobe Acrobat hollowing out same-origin policy | Almost Secure
15:29 *gooseheaded (~gooseheaded@9ucczhkmm895g.irc) has joined #techrights
15:29 TR News; Call for testing: 22.04 release candidate images ready! Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163898
15:29 TR Bot; Call for testing: 22.04 release candidate images ready! | Tux Machines
15:32 TR News; AVL-MXE 21.1 and MXDE Release-a-palooza! Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163899
15:32 TR Bot; AVL-MXE 21.1 and MXDE Release-a-palooza! | Tux Machines
15:33 TR News; Security Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163900
15:33 TR Bot; Security Leftovers | Tux Machines
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15:36 TR News; tidelift is joining the Microsoft-led FUD campaign https://blog.tidelift.com/finding-1-security-is-open-source-developers-most-urgent-challenge-while-complying-with-government-requirements-is-a-rising-concern see http://techrights.org/2022/01/14/white-house-security-theatre/
15:36 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: tidelift.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://blog.tidelift.com/finding-1-security-is-open-source-developers-most-urgent-challenge-while-complying-with-government-requirements-is-a-rising-concern https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://blog.tidelift.com/finding-1-security-is-open-source-developers-most-urgent-challenge-while-complying-with-government-requirements-is-a-rising-concern
15:36 TR Bot; Finding #1:Security is open source developers most urgent challenge, while complying with government requirements is a rising concern
15:36 TR Bot; White House Asking Proprietary Software Companies That Add NSA Back Doors About Their Views on Open Source Security | Techrights
15:39 TR News; Arduino turns to Linux for the heavy lifting Portenta X8 Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163901
15:39 TR Bot; Arduino turns to Linux for the heavy lifting Portenta X8 | Tux Machines
15:41 TR News; Tidelift is a longtime Microsoft booster, in effect trying to reform the image of a company that commits crimes and attacks Free software https://tidelift.com/about/lifter/microsoft_commits https://blog.tidelift.com/wtf-the-data-behind-microsofts-surprising-open-source-track-record
15:41 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: tidelift.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://tidelift.com/about/lifter/microsoft_commits https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://tidelift.com/about/lifter/microsoft_commits
15:41 TR Bot; Which open source projects has Microsoft committed to?
15:41 TR Bot; WTF? The data behind Microsoft's surprising open source track record
15:42 TR News; Don't ask Tidelift about Stalin. It might say something about Hitler being bad and thus Stalin being good. Tidelift = corporate shills.
15:44 TR News; No, proprietary software from an awfully dodgy firm like Sophos will make you worse off when it comes to security, not better. https://www.itweb.co.za/content/mYZRXv9aBbnvOgA8
15:44 TR Bot; Sophos unveils powerful Cloud Workload Protection advancements with new Linux, container security offerings | ITWeb
15:47 TR News; Sophos: buy our rubbish secret software. You'll be safer. Or LESS safe! https://www.eyerys.com/articles/timeline/sophos-warns-customers-about-data-leak-following-security-breach
15:47 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: eyerys.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.eyerys.com/articles/timeline/sophos-warns-customers-about-data-leak-following-security-breach https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.eyerys.com/articles/timeline/sophos-warns-customers-about-data-leak-following-security-breach
15:47 TR Bot; Warns Customers About Data Leak Following A Security Breach | Eyerys
15:51 TR News; WebKit frame delivery - ChrisLord.net https://www.chrislord.net/2022/04/19/webkit-frame-delivery/ Source: chrislord
15:51 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: chrislord.net | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.chrislord.net/2022/04/19/webkit-frame-delivery/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.chrislord.net/2022/04/19/webkit-frame-delivery/
15:51 TR Bot; ( status 403 @ https://www.chrislord.net/2022/04/19/webkit-frame-delivery/ )
15:53 TR News; "These days, many C++ projects are built using build tools like cmake and meson in addition to GNU make (gmake). In this blog, I have already written on how to compile and run LibreOffice SDK examples using gmake." https://dev.blog.documentfoundation.org/2022/04/19/using-cmake-to-build-libreoffice-cpp-sdk-examples/
15:53 TR Bot; Using cmake to build LibreOffice C++ SDK examples - LibreOffice Development Blog
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16:00 TR News; CISA cannot be taken too seriously (NSA agenda) if it floats this clown computing lunacy; this is where spies are collecting a lot data. https://us-cert.cisa.gov/ncas/current-activity/2022/04/18/cisa-releases-secure-cloud-business-applications-scuba-guidance
16:00 TR Bot; CISA Releases Secure Cloud Business Applications (SCuBA) Guidance Documents for Public Comment | CISA
16:01 TR News; Mourning Pedro Francisco [LWN.net] http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163891#comment-33391
16:01 TR Bot; The Free Software community mourns the loss of Pedro Francisco (MasGNULinux) | Tux Machines
16:02 TR News; Wow. What a bunch of corporate corrupt shills https://www.computerweekly.com/feature/Positive-benefits-in-the-new-experience-economy disguised as experts. In reality professional CON MEN. http://techrights.org/wiki/index.php/Gartner_Group
16:02 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: computerweekly.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.computerweekly.com/feature/Positive-benefits-in-the-new-experience-economy https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.computerweekly.com/feature/Positive-benefits-in-the-new-experience-economy
16:02 TR Bot; Positive benefits in the new experience economy
16:02 TR Bot; Gartner Group - Techrights
16:03 TR News; 274: What Makes A Linux Distro Good For Beginners? - Destination Linux https://destinationlinux.org/episode-274/ Source: destinationlinux
16:03 TR Bot; 274: What Makes A Linux Distro Good For Beginners? - Destination Linux
16:10 *techrights-ipfs-bot (~techrights-ipfs-bot@s44cwn8sugddy.irc) has joined #techrights
16:10 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 18.31 k/sec., IPFS upstream 44.91 average k/sec., average swarm size 257.13
16:10 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 18.31 k/sec., IPFS upstream 44.91 average k/sec., average swarm size 257.13
16:10 TR News; Fedora and IBM/Red Hat Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163902
16:10 TR Bot; Fedora and IBM/Red Hat Leftovers | Tux Machines
16:10 TR News; Should I Switch from Windows to Linux OS? Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163903
16:10 TR Bot; Should I Switch from Windows to Linux OS? | Tux Machines
16:11 TR News; "LFNW hasn't been in person since the start of the pandemic. I don't think it was even held in 2020. Anyhoo, they played it safe for 2022... and put in a bit of effort with planning what will hopefully be a very successful virtual event for 2022... this weekend." http://www.montanalinux.org/lfnw-2022-virtual.html
16:11 TR Bot; NorthWest VIRTUAL this weekend | www.montanalinux.org
16:13 TR News; "This simple tutorial shows how to replace the default Snap Store (Ubuntu Software) with Gnome Software with Flatpak support in Ubuntu 22.04 LTS." https://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2022/04/gnome-software-ubuntu-2204/
16:13 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: ubuntuhandbook.org | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2022/04/gnome-software-ubuntu-2204/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/2022/04/gnome-software-ubuntu-2204/
16:13 TR Bot; Install Gnome Software as Ubuntu Software with Flatpak Support in Ubuntu 22.04 | UbuntuHandbook
16:13 TR News; Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt, and Bad Security Advice Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163904
16:13 TR Bot; Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt, and Bad Security Advice | Tux Machines
16:17 TR News; Regarding TideLift, it's funded by 'former' Microsoft as the General Manager of General Gatalyst (Quentin Clark)
16:22 schestowitz; 20 years at Microsoft, not behind tidelift https://www.thetwentyminutevc.com/uncategorised/quentinclark/
16:22 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: thetwentyminutevc.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.thetwentyminutevc.com/uncategorised/quentinclark/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.thetwentyminutevc.com/uncategorised/quentinclark/
16:22 TR Bot; 20VC: Lessons From Working with Bill Gates, How To Lead Without Authority and The Difference Between Leadership and Management & How Fundraising Changes In A COVID World with Quentin Clark, Managing Director @ General Catalyst - 20VC
16:27 TR News; "There is significant commonality between the Tab 11 and Tab 10 as they both use Android 11. The Tab 10 has Blackviews Doke OS_P 1.0 on top of Android 11, whereas the Tab 11 has Doke OS_P 2.0 which has several additional features (split screen functionality, for example)." https://fitzcarraldoblog.wordpress.com/2022/04/19/blackview-tab-11-a-good-budget-tablet/
16:27 TR Bot; Blackview Tab 11, a good budget tablet | Fitzcarraldo's Blog
16:30 TR News; 7 of the Best LaTeX Editors for Linux Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163905
16:30 TR Bot; 7 of the Best LaTeX Editors for Linux | Tux Machines
16:33 TR News; 10 Fun Games to Play in the Linux Terminal Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163906
16:33 TR Bot; 10 Fun Games to Play in the Linux Terminal | Tux Machines
16:39 TR News; Firmware by default in Debian? Suggested by anti-RMS people. Maybe RMS wasn't their problem; maybe software freedom is something they don't agree with, so they go ad hominem
16:39 TR News; Programming Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163907
16:39 TR Bot; Programming Leftovers | Tux Machines
16:43 TR News; Links 19/04/2022: Debians Latest Firmware Debate; RIP, Pedro Francisco (MasGNULinux) | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/04/19/rip-pedro-francisco-masgnulinux/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/04/19/rip-pedro-francisco-masgnulinux/
16:43 TR Bot; Links 19/04/2022: Debians Latest Firmware Debate; RIP, Pedro Francisco (MasGNULinux) | Techrights
16:44 TR News; Todays Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163908
16:44 TR Bot; today's leftovers | Tux Machines
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16:56 MinceR; https://nitter.eu/pic/media%2FEB8kmtVUcAEz7AC.jpg%3Fname%3Dorig
16:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 22.25 k/sec., IPFS upstream 22.53 average k/sec., average swarm size 358.01
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17:19 MinceR; (cat) https://imgur.com/t/cats/RMQciWF
17:19 TR Bot; is chaos including these memes I have to get off my phone #2 - Album on Imgur
17:19 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: imgur.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://imgur.com/t/cats/RMQciWF https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://imgur.com/t/cats/RMQciWF
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17:48 *matey (~matey@u6tbsk2f5y7xa.irc) has joined #techrights
17:48 SomeH4x0r; hi
17:51 matey; hi
17:51 matey; schestowitz-TR I didn't get the joke anyway, you left out the q and the plus <- they are implied. lg isnt inclusive enough because of bi-erasure and the lgb orgs selling out trans, when lgbt does too much to gloss over q+ issues then it wont be implied, it will be "necessary" (not sarcasm, just relative)
17:52 matey; for example if youre looking for an lgbt org in the states to support, youre better off with pflag because of their record on trans representation
17:52 matey; while theres another famous lgb org that is famous for selling them out, and theyre (probably) where all the terfs go, though im sure its not (strictly) a terf org
17:52 matey; giving them money just says "sell out anyone who is trans, please"
17:53 matey; of course i think all 501c3s sell people out eventually, but thats no reason to focus your support on the ones who do it first. if my only choices were to support osi or fsf it would still be fsf
17:54 matey; the joke was about a quote about confucious who said "if the mat was not straight, the master would not sit"
17:54 matey; and if its still not clear, explaining it wont help
17:55 matey; also if your wife is chinese and she thinks your confucius jokes are funny, then you can get away with it
17:56 matey; it wont help with a coc or the fake left, but theres no pleasing people on twitter anyway
17:58 MinceR; http://www.engrish.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/explodes-the-large-intestine.jpg ( https://www.engrish.com/2020/11/dont-believe-it-c4-yourself/ )
17:58 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: engrish.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/http://www.engrish.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/explodes-the-large-intestine.jpg https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/http://www.engrish.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/explodes-the-large-intestine.jpg
17:58 TR Bot; Dont believe it? C4 yourself.
18:06 matey; the other thing thats arse backwards about a coc is that with its endless reach and scope, it practically says who youre allowed to speak to. of course this is in the enforcement, not the letter, but that doesnt mean its not implied or a logical outcome. zero tolerance policy is (by nature) difficult if not impossible to contain its own scope
18:06 matey; and heres the big political problem with that
18:07 matey; if its just about "events" as it starts out, whatever, right? but it goes farther. the scope "escapes" into the wild
18:07 *DaemonFC (~daemonfc@apf382x4ci78a.irc) has joined #techrights
18:08 DaemonFC; Okay, so I'm going to need to flush the coolant again.
18:08 DaemonFC; GM has a TSB about this.
18:08 matey; and then you know, it becomes a thought crime to talk to people, even/especially those you (passionately) disagree with
18:08 DaemonFC; Old dirty DexCool can plug up the heater core.
18:08 DaemonFC; Heater cores are expensive, so GM recommends trying a super coolant flush with Blue Devil first.
18:08 DaemonFC; That's actually what they tell their dealers to use!
18:09 matey; this drives wrongthink into more isolation, where it already has a cult-like nature
18:09 *gooseheaded (~gooseheaded@idx2hgwaipuwq.irc) has joined #techrights
18:09 DaemonFC; Drain coolant, rinse, drain again, blue devil and water, run car for 4 hours with the heater on, and drain, fill and drain with water, then add 50/50 coolant.
18:09 matey; without engaging with sanity, cults become even more dangerous and "potentially" violent
18:09 DaemonFC; So I get to do that tomorrow.
18:10 matey; so in the short run the coc keeps things "pure" but in the long run it guarantees bigger conflicts with extremists
18:10 matey; it helps them recruit
18:11 matey; cocs martyr people and the result is more cults of personality, even if theyre not violent ones
18:12 matey; people think this is hyperbole, its not
18:12 matey; school shooters are often motivated by suicide, they dont want to "go alone"
18:13 matey; cocs pose a greater threat to people who already have angst and difficulties
18:13 matey; than they do to those they claim to help us with
18:14 matey; and above all they build a wall that dares the world to knock it down
18:14 *techrights-ipfs-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)
18:14 matey; whenever you build a wall like that, you create more people devoted to bringing it down
18:15 matey; then idiots say "theyre motivated by hate"
18:15 matey; some are, absolutely
18:15 matey; more of them just fucking hate walls
18:16 matey; not all walls, but the dumbest ones to be sure
18:16 matey; walls between germany and east germany
18:16 matey; walls between users and their computer
18:17 matey; walls between friends who make their own rules (within reason, but some people are never happy)
18:17 matey; and the defenders of such nonsense have to play stupid, because its the only way to get away with it
18:18 matey; devils advocate as a service
18:18 matey; we take two evils-- hate and stupidity
18:18 matey; we ban one and allowlist the other, for the sake of keeping out the first one
18:19 matey; so no hate is allowed (yet some at least is truly harmless!) but we will allow whatever amount of stupidity it takes to make it happen
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18:19 matey; but its a LOT of stupid. so much that only time will tell how much
18:20 matey; it already destroyed the fsf, its just falling in slow motion
18:21 matey; thats a lot of stupid. and the stupid will continue until society improves.
18:21 matey; great plan
18:22 matey; the people who say it will lead to stalinism are not only not exaggerating, and even right (maybe not for the right reasons, but correct nonetheless) but there are three (or more) examples from history, including stalinism itself
18:23 matey; zero tolerance policy leads to idiocy and politics based around idiocy
18:23 matey; politics based around idiocy and zero tolerance policy pave the way for leaders like stalin
18:23 matey; this is what we learn from history
18:24 matey; and you have people warning the world 100 years ago of the sort of shit we are seeing now, who were proven right by famines that killed millions
18:24 matey; not that the coc will necessarily go that far of course
18:24 matey; only that unchecked, it would
18:24 matey; if it destroys free software and stops there, thats one thing i guess
18:24 *gde33 has quit (Quit: KVIrc 5.0.0 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/)
18:25 matey; still a huge problem
18:25 matey; the thing is, theres no "wait and see" point where it becomes an idea that isnt stupid, destructive and even self-defeating
18:25 matey; its a plan that looks like a good (to some people) and will let them and everyone else down
18:25 matey; but who wants to learn from history. thats boring.
18:25 matey; its more fun to be right.
18:27 matey; zero tolerance demands megalomania
18:28 *gooseheaded (~gooseheaded@idx2hgwaipuwq.irc) has joined #techrights
18:28 matey; and putting qualifiers in zero tolerance policy only guarantees that the qualifiers will be ignored or occasionally used in a biased way
18:29 matey; if they actually worked as qualifiers, it wouldnt be zero tolerance policy. the only purpose they serve is to make it look like its not
18:29 matey; you only have to wait a little while to see the qualifiers dont work
18:29 matey; they were never part of the actual purpose of the thing, and they are rarely used
18:30 matey; a bit like sunset policy on the pat-riot act
18:30 matey; the purpose of the sunset policy isnt to limit the amount of time its on the books
18:31 matey; the purpose of the sunset policy is to make people think its safe to rip human rights policies in two, because we have sticky tape and will mend the "real" rules in a few years, dont worry
18:31 matey; we always keep our promises. just ask the native americans.
18:32 matey; native americans werent willing to abide by our reasonable and agreed upon community standards. so we just "showed them the door" as randall put it.
18:33 matey; with africans it wasnt their fault they were on the land in the first place, but they COULDNT (it wasnt within their natural capabilities) to follow reasonable community standards
18:33 matey; so we kept them away from a free society from the beginning.
18:34 matey; the first time, with native americans, it was a fiction-- the community standards were a farce.
18:34 matey; the second time, with africans, it was a fiction-- the standards of a "polite society" were a farce. it was as "polite" as regular beatings and human exploitation.
18:35 matey; but the THIRD TIME, with the coc, the standards are REAL. NON-fiction.
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18:35 matey; THIS TIME, we have a damned good reason.
18:35 matey; so of course it will work out.
18:35 *gooseheaded (~gooseheaded@idx2hgwaipuwq.irc) has joined #techrights
18:35 matey; its NOT built on pure hypocrisy and self-serving biases.
18:35 matey; so be happy for that. its mandatory
18:36 matey; (dfcs husband is conservative, but if he were british he would be mandytory)
18:37 *gooseheaded has quit (Quit: A Book which I am writing, and would love to share: https://executingreality.com/pdfs/TheNOTES/NOTES.pdf)
18:38 matey; polite society lynches people. people who dont follow "community standards" get lynched
18:38 matey; its a perfect system.
18:40 matey; when people from the south talk about how it used to be, they wax romantic about it, its disgusting
18:40 matey; they talk about how GENTEEL and POLITE it was
18:40 matey; full of grace!
18:41 matey; when people talk about trying to destroy stallmans life and career with lies
18:41 matey; they talk about how they admire him and like him
18:41 matey; he just wasnt right for the job. great guy though
18:41 matey; its just a bit different than what they said before.
18:41 matey; but you know, water under the bridge. just like doctor doctor doctor stockholm syndrome says.
18:42 matey; doctor separate but equal
18:42 matey; forward, to stalinism!
18:43 matey; "but you must admit dr stallman, it beats an ice pick anyday"
18:44 matey; "well, i dont think all ice picks are the same. if the ice pick is running free software at least, thats more ethical than an ice pick running non-free software"
18:44 matey; thats what i like about lieplanet
18:44 matey; its an ice pick running only free software. the very best kind.
18:49 matey; schestowitz-TR now I need to solve CAPTCHAs w3c!!! fucking w3c!!
18:49 matey; the captchas rely on standards-compliance in your browser, roy
18:50 matey; if your browser openly respects community standards, you shouldnt need to solve a captcha
18:50 matey; enable your standard features and continue. happiness is mandatory. the w3c is mother. the w3c is father.
18:50 *gooseheaded (~gooseheaded@idx2hgwaipuwq.irc) has joined #techrights
18:50 matey; js is standard, roy. why do you fight against standards?
18:51 matey; standards exist for the good of everyone.
18:51 matey; schestowitz-TR That's like the Olympic committee pushing mcdonalds and coca cola <- and fascism
18:51 matey; but its the other way around, mcdonalds and coca cola promote the olympics
18:52 matey; mcdonalds <3 olympians
18:52 matey; and since mcdonalds is microsoft, and microsoft is bill gates
18:52 matey; microsoft <3 olympics
18:53 matey; microsoft <3 standards
18:53 matey; ibm <3 community
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19:24 MinceR; (audio:important) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kADAHqaNRgw
19:24 TR Bot; https://y.com.sb/watch?v=kADAHqaNRgw
19:24 TR Bot; y.com.sb | The Tucker Testicle Tanner Is The Perfect Way To Re-Juice Your Carlsons - Invidious
19:24 *schestowitz-TR back
19:25 AdmFubar; you were gone?
19:26 AdmFubar; https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/04/a-year-after-apple-enforces-app-tracking-policy-covert-ios-tracking-remains/
19:26 TR Bot; Your iOS app may still be covertly tracking you, despite what Apple says | Ars Technica
19:26 schestowitz-TR; no way!
19:26 schestowitz-TR; "iphone is privacy!|!!"
19:27 schestowitz-TR; the ads say so
19:28 MinceR; lol
19:30 TR News; "It's really great to see Gemini mentioned and noticed outside of the pubnix/tildeverse/gopherspace/circumlunar communities. It comes up on Hacker News and lobste.rs quite frequently these days, I've seen it mentioned on Hackaday too." gemini://thelambdalab.xyz/phlog/2021-10-07-Gemini-roots.txt
19:31 TR News; Introversion classic Darwinia gets remastered with better Steam Deck support | GamingOnLinux https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/04/introversion-classic-darwinia-gets-remastered-with-better-steam-deck-support/ Source: Gaming On Linux | GNU | Linux | Games
19:31 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: gamingonlinux.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/04/introversion-classic-darwinia-gets-remastered-with-better-steam-deck-support/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/04/introversion-classic-darwinia-gets-remastered-with-better-steam-deck-support/
19:31 TR Bot; classic Darwinia gets remastered with better Steam Deck support | GamingOnLinux
19:32 SomeH4x0r; 16 players (I did count by nicknames, may be less) did connect to UplinkIRC today
19:32 AdmFubar; https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/github-notifies-owners-of-private-repos-stolen-using-oauth-tokens/
19:32 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: bleepingcomputer.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/github-notifies-owners-of-private-repos-stolen-using-oauth-tokens/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/github-notifies-owners-of-private-repos-stolen-using-oauth-tokens/
19:32 TR Bot; GitHub notifies owners of private repos stolen using OAuth tokens
19:33 TR News; Wobbly Life looks like pure silly joy and it added Steam Deck support | GamingOnLinux https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/04/wobbly-life-looks-like-pure-silly-joy-and-it-added-steam-deck-support/ Source: Gaming On Linux | GNU | Linux | Games
19:33 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: gamingonlinux.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/04/wobbly-life-looks-like-pure-silly-joy-and-it-added-steam-deck-support/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/04/wobbly-life-looks-like-pure-silly-joy-and-it-added-steam-deck-support/
19:33 TR Bot; Life looks like pure silly joy and it added Steam Deck support | GamingOnLinux
19:33 SomeH4x0r; however, fuck it. I seen no difference, but they overwritten the game on GOG afaik, so people might have lost GNU/Linux support and older hardware support if they auto-update
19:33 AdmFubar; UEFI oopsie doodles https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/lenovo-uefi-firmware-driver-bugs-affect-over-100-laptop-models/
19:33 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: bleepingcomputer.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/lenovo-uefi-firmware-driver-bugs-affect-over-100-laptop-models/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/lenovo-uefi-firmware-driver-bugs-affect-over-100-laptop-models/
19:33 TR Bot; Lenovo UEFI firmware driver bugs affect over 100 laptop models
19:34 TR News; "Hosted by Cristina Cochior, Karl Moubarak, Jara Rocha of The Cell for Digital Discomfort." https://www.fsf.org/events/libreplanet-workshop-april-25-installing-ourselves-into-libreplanet
19:34 TR Bot; LibrePlanet workshop - April 25 - Installing Ourselves into LibrePlanet Free Software Foundation Working together for free software
19:35 *u-amarsh04 has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)
19:36 TR News; Volla Phone 22 runs Ubuntu Touch or a privacy-focused Android fork... or both (crowdfunding) Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163909
19:36 TR Bot; Volla Phone 22 runs Ubuntu Touch or a privacy-focused Android fork... or both (crowdfunding) | Tux Machines
19:36 *u-amarsh04 (~amarsh04@v6xmmrhxmbafc.irc) has joined #techrights
19:37 TR News; Switch to these open source apps if youre stuck on Windows or Mac OS! - Invidious https://yewtu.be/watch?v=uundIaRNJ6A Source: Video | Invidious | Multimedia
19:37 TR Bot; Switch to these open source apps if you're stuck on Windows or Mac OS! - Invidious
19:38 TR News; "In this video, I am going to show an overview of Ubuntu Budgie 22.04 LTS and some of the applications pre-installed." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJKMx1c_Wpc
19:38 TR Bot; https://invidious.esmailelbob.xyz/watch?v=cJKMx1c_Wpc
19:38 TR Bot; invidious.esmailelbob.xyz | Ubuntu Budgie 22.04 LTS overview | Embrace the change - Invidious
19:39 TR News; Mourning Pedro Francisco Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163910
19:39 TR Bot; Mourning Pedro Francisco | Tux Machines
19:46 AdmFubar; You are a robot aren't you? https://www.databreaches.net/web-scraping-is-legal-us-appeals-court-reaffirms/
19:46 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: databreaches.net | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.databreaches.net/web-scraping-is-legal-us-appeals-court-reaffirms/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.databreaches.net/web-scraping-is-legal-us-appeals-court-reaffirms/
19:46 TR Bot; Web scraping is legal, US appeals court reaffirms
19:49 TR News; With Fedora 36, there might be a new gold standard for Linux distributions Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163911
19:49 TR Bot; With Fedora 36, there might be a new gold standard for Linux distributions | Tux Machines
19:51 schestowitz-TR; AdmFubar: I guess it depends on reason and amount
19:51 schestowitz-TR; rationalising it is usually not hard
19:51 schestowitz-TR; and if it's paced down, it's not DDOS
19:51 schestowitz-TR; that's just what the web does -- it serves pages
19:51 DaemonFC; Okay, I just went over the entire car twice with no water car wash and some microfiber towels.
19:51 DaemonFC; Very shiny.
19:51 schestowitz-TR; Microsoft fought AGAINST it
19:51 DaemonFC; I did a once over on the Impala too and got the bird shit and stuff off.
19:52 schestowitz-TR; so you fell in love again
19:52 schestowitz-TR; not the bird shit
19:52 schestowitz-TR; the car
19:52 DaemonFC; That stuff eats through car paint like battery acid because birds take a piss every time they shit.
19:52 DaemonFC; I like this waterless wash stuff.
19:52 DaemonFC; Much cheaper than going through the car wash every week.
19:53 DaemonFC; And you save water and you'll do a better job because it's your car, and you don't need to worry about the rocks and shit from the truck in front of you scratching off all your finish.
19:53 DaemonFC; schestowitz-TR, Yeah, I like the car.
19:53 DaemonFC; I'm going to have them flush the coolant out again tomorrow. The first flush actually seems to have clogged up the heater core.
19:54 DaemonFC; So GM says use Blue Devil on it and leave it running with the heater on for 4 hours and flush again.
19:54 TR News; Severity 9.8. But the media will ignore it unless "LINUX" something (FUD opportunity) https://www.cisa.gov/uscert/ics/advisories/icsa-21-119-04
19:54 TR Bot; Multiple RTOS (Update E) | CISA
19:54 DaemonFC; schestowitz-TR, You're supposed to flush the coolant every 5 years, but nobody does.
19:54 DaemonFC; I've never come across a car before though where you go to flush it and it craps up the heater core.
19:55 DaemonFC; It probably would have been a better idea to drain the radiator and the overflow tank out and just refill them with fresh coolant.
19:55 DaemonFC; Do it again next year.
19:55 DaemonFC; But...meh.
19:55 DaemonFC; Live and learn I guess.
19:56 TR News; Advance your penetration testing skills by mastering Kali Linux - Help Net Security https://www.helpnetsecurity.com/2022/04/15/penetration-testing-mastering-kali-linux-video/ Source: helpnetsecurity
19:56 TR Bot; Advance your penetration testing skills by mastering Kali Linux - Help Net Security
19:56 DaemonFC; bbiab
19:57 TR News; Low attack complexity/exploitable remotely https://www.cisa.gov/uscert/ics/advisories/icsa-22-109-02
19:57 TR Bot; Automated Logic WebCTRL | CISA
19:58 TR News; Google #Android Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163912
19:58 TR Bot; Android Leftovers | Tux Machines
19:58 *DaemonFC has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)
20:00 TR News; Gulag posing as security firm (while spying for the NSA, FBI etc.) https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2022/04/the-more-you-know-more-you-know-you.html
20:00 TR Bot; Project Zero: The More You Know, The More You Know You Dont Know
20:04 TR News; Sanctions & the End of a Financial Era with John Titus https://unlimitedhangout.com/2022/04/podcasts/sanctions-the-end-of-a-financial-era-with-john-titus-2/
20:04 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: unlimitedhangout.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://unlimitedhangout.com/2022/04/podcasts/sanctions-the-end-of-a-financial-era-with-john-titus-2/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://unlimitedhangout.com/2022/04/podcasts/sanctions-the-end-of-a-financial-era-with-john-titus-2/
20:04 TR Bot; Sanctions & the End of a Financial Era with John Titus
20:05 TR News; This chocolate bunny screams when its eaten | Arduino Blog https://blog.arduino.cc/2022/04/19/this-chocolate-bunny-screams-when-its-eaten/ Source: Arduino | Hardware | OpenHardware | Hacking
20:05 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: arduino.cc | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://blog.arduino.cc/2022/04/19/this-chocolate-bunny-screams-when-its-eaten/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://blog.arduino.cc/2022/04/19/this-chocolate-bunny-screams-when-its-eaten/
20:05 TR Bot; This chocolate bunny screams when it's eaten | Arduino Blog
20:05 TR News; Todays #HowTos | #UNIX Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163913
20:05 TR Bot; today's howtos | Tux Machines
20:09 TR News; WordPress 6.0 Beta 2 Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163914
20:09 TR Bot; WordPress 6.0 Beta 2 | Tux Machines
20:10 *bnchs__ (~bnchs@7jtdtx5bfxrng.irc) has joined #techrights
20:10 AdmFubar; this id system certainly has its flaws
20:10 AdmFubar; https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/check-the-number-of-sim-cards-issued-on-your-aadhaar-number-with-these-simple-steps-10573921.html
20:10 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: firstpost.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/check-the-number-of-sim-cards-issued-on-your-aadhaar-number-with-these-simple-steps-10573921.html https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/check-the-number-of-sim-cards-issued-on-your-aadhaar-number-with-these-simple-steps-10573921.html
20:10 TR Bot; the number of SIM cards issued on your Aadhaar number with these simple steps- Technology News, Firstpost
20:10 *techrights-ipfs-bot (~techrights-ipfs-bot@s44cwn8sugddy.irc) has joined #techrights
20:10 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 21.61 k/sec., IPFS upstream 36.48 average k/sec., average swarm size 331.98
20:11 AdmFubar; https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/explained-why-windows-11-failed-to-take-off-like-windows-7-and-10-10569611.html
20:11 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: firstpost.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/explained-why-windows-11-failed-to-take-off-like-windows-7-and-10-10569611.html https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/explained-why-windows-11-failed-to-take-off-like-windows-7-and-10-10569611.html
20:11 TR Bot; Why Windows 11 Failed To Take Off Like Windows 7 and 10- Technology News, Firstpost
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20:17 MinceR; https://ircz.de/p/22041619
20:17 TR Bot; IRCZ makes your life worth living https://i.redd.it/9hbt8dzg0nt81.jpg created on 2022-04-16 07:03:38.587988
20:23 AdmFubar; this is not a pregnant man... he has a beer gut! (why have a 6 pack when you can have a whole barrel?) https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/apple-releases-pregnant-man-other-gender-neutral-emojis-twitter-schools-them-in-biology-10572021.html
20:23 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: firstpost.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/apple-releases-pregnant-man-other-gender-neutral-emojis-twitter-schools-them-in-biology-10572021.html https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/apple-releases-pregnant-man-other-gender-neutral-emojis-twitter-schools-them-in-biology-10572021.html
20:23 TR Bot; Releases A Pregnant Man & Other Gender-Neutral Emojis, Twitter Schools Them In Biology- Technology News, Firstpost
20:24 MinceR; "Can u get pregante?"
20:24 schestowitz-TR; Monty Python: I'm pregnant! and so is my wife!
20:25 MinceR; :>
20:25 schestowitz-TR; anyway, this is troll dynamite
20:25 schestowitz-TR; no wonder they mention the twitter circus
20:25 schestowitz-TR; Musk Social
20:25 schestowitz-TR; I'd rather focus on 2 videos I'm about to record
20:25 schestowitz-TR; one is about Debian and firmware
20:25 schestowitz-TR; the other will be tidelift
20:26 schestowitz-TR; Ubuntu will have an LTS soon
20:26 schestowitz-TR; but it doesn't look like many people care
20:27 TR News; Exploitable remotely/low attack complexity https://www.cisa.gov/uscert/ics/advisories/icsa-22-109-03
20:27 TR Bot; FANUC ROBOGUIDE Simulation Platform | CISA
20:27 *acer-box has quit (Connection closed)
20:27 *schestowitz-TR has quit (connection closed)
20:28 TR News; "Folder".... "SYSTEM level privileges access"... yes, we're talking about Windows again, but NSA and CISA won't name that in a negative context. They want back-doored POS universally deployed.
20:28 *schestowitz-TR (~acer-box@s44cwn8sugddy.irc) has joined #techrights
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20:33 TR News; Severity: 9.8. "COMPANY HEADQUARTERS LOCATION: Russia" (so US espionage agencies now care about Russian holes?) https://www.cisa.gov/uscert/ics/advisories/icsa-22-109-04
20:33 TR Bot; Elcomplus SmartPPT SCADA | CISA
20:34 TR News; Why JavaScript is a POS from a security POV. https://www.cisa.gov/uscert/ics/advisories/icsa-22-109-05
20:34 TR Bot; Elcomplus SmartPPT SCADA Server | CISA
20:35 TR News; [PATCH 0/2] drm/nvdla: Add driver support for NVDLA - Cai Huoqing https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20220419135908.39606-1-cai.huoqing@linux.dev/ Source: linux
20:35 TR Bot; [PATCH 0/2] drm/nvdla: Add driver support for NVDLA - Cai Huoqing
20:36 TR News; "Imposter syndrome is an insidious problem within software communities. Many of us, especially members of marginalized communities, struggle to shake the feeling that we aren't as qualified as our peers. This makes us feel unqualified and undeserving compared to those around us." https://blog.rust-lang.org/inside-rust/2022/04/19/imposter-syndrome.html
20:36 TR Bot; Imposter Syndrome | Inside Rust Blog
20:36 schestowitz; Ariadne: https://blog.arduino.cc/2022/04/19/this-chocolate-bunny-screams-when-its-eaten/
20:36 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: arduino.cc | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://blog.arduino.cc/2022/04/19/this-chocolate-bunny-screams-when-its-eaten/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://blog.arduino.cc/2022/04/19/this-chocolate-bunny-screams-when-its-eaten/
20:36 TR Bot; This chocolate bunny screams when it's eaten | Arduino Blog
20:37 TR News; Bottles - Run Windows software on Linux with Bottles | Linux.org https://www.linux.org/threads/bottles-run-windows-software-on-linux-with-bottles.39294/ Source: linux
20:37 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: linux.org | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.linux.org/threads/bottles-run-windows-software-on-linux-with-bottles.39294/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.linux.org/threads/bottles-run-windows-software-on-linux-with-bottles.39294/
20:37 TR Bot; - Run Windows software on Linux with Bottles | Linux.org
20:39 TR News; Coming of Age: Desktop Organization with Plasma Activities Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163915
20:39 TR Bot; Coming of Age: Desktop Organization with Plasma Activities | Tux Machines
20:40 *koo5_ (~quassel@51.140.155.227) has joined #techrights
20:41 TR News; The LF "diploma mill" adds new "products" https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/tars-certification-testing-microservices-expertise-now-available-301528288.html see http://techrights.org/2021/09/23/lf-diploma-mill-and-narrative-control-by-fake-research/
20:41 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: prnewswire.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/tars-certification-testing-microservices-expertise-now-available-301528288.html https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/tars-certification-testing-microservices-expertise-now-available-301528288.html
20:41 TR Bot; TARS Certification Testing Microservices Expertise Now Available
20:41 TR Bot; Linux Foundation and Other Diploma Mills Say Theres Demand for Their Products in Their New Research (Marketing) | Techrights
20:42 TR News; Welcome Node.js 18 https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/welcome-nodejs-18 Red Hat | ICBM on BloatJS
20:42 TR Bot; Welcome Node.js 18
20:42 TR News; More BuzzwordOps https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/argocd-and-gitops-whats-next
20:42 TR Bot; ArgoCD and GitOps: Whats next?
20:46 TR News; Paradox announce Crusader Kings III: Fate of Iberia and Surviving Mars Content Packs | GamingOnLinux https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/04/paradox-announce-crusader-kings-iii-fate-of-iberia-and-surviving-mars-content-packs/ Source: Gaming On Linux | GNU | Linux | Games
20:46 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: gamingonlinux.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/04/paradox-announce-crusader-kings-iii-fate-of-iberia-and-surviving-mars-content-packs/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/04/paradox-announce-crusader-kings-iii-fate-of-iberia-and-surviving-mars-content-packs/
20:46 TR Bot; announce Crusader Kings III: Fate of Iberia and Surviving Mars Content Packs | GamingOnLinux
20:50 TR News; WTH is the point of "Open Source" whose whole purpose is advancing proprietary software of criminals (Microsoft)? https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/04/minecraft-launcher-polymc-120-out-now-supporting-the-quilt-loader/
20:50 -AltLink_97e/#techrights- CloudFlare: gamingonlinux.com | Alternative: https://web.archive.org/web/https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/04/minecraft-launcher-polymc-120-out-now-supporting-the-quilt-loader/ https://timetravel.mementoweb.org/memento/202204/https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/04/minecraft-launcher-polymc-120-out-now-supporting-the-quilt-loader/
20:50 TR Bot; launcher PolyMC 1.2.0 out now supporting the Quilt loader | GamingOnLinux
20:50 TR News; Security Leftovers Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163916
20:50 TR Bot; Security Leftovers | Tux Machines
20:51 TR News; Games: Wobbly Life, Darwinia, Crusader Kings III, and Bottles Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163917
20:51 TR Bot; Games: Wobbly Life, Darwinia, Crusader Kings III, and Bottles | Tux Machines
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20:57 DaemonFC; I may get a five gallon drum of waterless car wash concentrate.
20:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 44.01 k/sec., IPFS upstream 37.35 average k/sec., average swarm size 313.33
21:13 AdmFubar; https://www.maketecheasier.com/brata-malware/
21:13 TR Bot; Brata Malware Steals Your Money, then Activates Kill Switch - Make Tech Easier
21:40 TR News; Not updated in almost a week!! Our regime does not want to share data on COVID-19 with us, it's just not a priority because of holidays as if the virus takes a "break" https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=overview&areaName=United%20Kingdom
21:40 TR Bot; ( status 403 @ https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=overview&areaName=United%20Kingdom )
21:41 TR News; British government is "not available" "not available" "not available" "not available" when it comes to COVID-19 https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths?areaType=overview&areaName=United%20Kingdom they use the graphs to present the LACK of data as a "decline"
21:41 TR Bot; ( status 403 @ https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths?areaType=overview&areaName=United%20Kingdom )
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21:47 activelow; GNOME/GTK are a prime example, how cmake and c++ poisoned the depedency graph
21:53 MinceR; gnome and gtk have bigger problems than c++
21:53 MinceR; like systemd, udisks and dbugs
21:54 activelow; systemd/dbus/... are solved
21:55 MinceR; not in gnome
21:55 MinceR; and neither is the fact that they betrayed gimp
21:56 activelow; yes, i only try to keep GTK2/3, gnome is hopeless
21:58 MinceR; and you don't mind having half a window manager in gtk3?
21:59 activelow; gtk2/3 aren't a window manager, gtk is a widget toolkit
21:59 activelow; and i found a suitable window manager, which doesn't depend on anything such as cmake,c++,systemd/dbus
22:01 MinceR; gtk3 has half a window manager in it so that it can support CSD
22:01 activelow; csd?
22:01 MinceR; client side decorations
22:01 MinceR; Qt has another half for the same reason
22:02 *tpmd (~tpm@dnqp5euy36v3k.irc) has left #techrights
22:02 activelow; the only reason, currently, i am trying to keep GTK2/3, is netsurf browser
22:03 activelow; and it was a challenge too, finding a suitable terminal-emulator for x11, which is clean
22:03 MinceR; afaict all terminal emulators are garbage
22:04 MinceR; the one i'm using right now leaves blue pixels on my trackbar from time to time
22:04 activelow; xterm was OK, yet cannot use it anymore because it didn't support legacy BSD pty anymore last time i tried
22:04 MinceR; xterm hurts my eyes
22:07 activelow; thing is, GTK2/3 developers knew what they were doing, to implement it in C, not c++;
22:07 activelow; now, harfbuzz dependency attached, and freaks out
22:07 MinceR; yeah, it was pure genius to reimplement OOP in C
22:08 MinceR; not wasted effort and not bug-prone at all
22:08 activelow; other ones are ICU library, cmake
22:08 activelow; i don't recall GTK2/3 reporting many bugs, related to choice of C language
22:08 MinceR; if only the people who came up with C++ had known that the right way to implement the things they wanted was to hack them up in a library for C
22:09 activelow; glib iirc
22:09 MinceR; gobject
22:10 activelow; anyway, harfbuzz 2.7 is implemented in C++; either i can remove it, or downgrade to an earlier version without c++, or GTK3 is gone
22:11 schestowitz-TR; xterm is not just ugly, MinceR
22:12 schestowitz-TR; there are many purely practical limitations in it
22:12 schestowitz-TR; and each time I 'mistakenly' start xterm I sooner or later recall why it's an accident
22:12 schestowitz-TR; or mistake to start it
22:12 schestowitz-TR; some very basic functionality is absent
22:12 schestowitz-TR; not visual stuff
22:13 activelow; if xterm is configured with a decent font and color scheme it is good, same with rxvt
22:13 activelow; yet, those are configured with xresources, not gtk/qt
22:13 schestowitz-TR; but it's not about fonts
22:13 activelow; fonts, unicode, termcaps, i didn't have problems with xterm, which couldn't be solved
22:14 activelow; and, xterm is fast, with async scrolling
22:15 TR News; "I've been a big fan of ferdi for a very long time it's a great open source project but out of seemingly nowhere the project, the twitter, website, github and everything else completely vanished along with the open collective being archived." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmmj5JDRCUg
22:15 TR Bot; https://youtube.076.ne.jp/watch?v=Bmmj5JDRCUg
22:15 TR Bot; youtube.076.ne.jp | My Favourite Open Source Project Just Vanished? - Invidious
22:17 TR News; New GNU/Linux and Free Software Videos Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163918
22:17 TR Bot; New GNU/Linux and Free Software Videos | Tux Machines
22:17 MinceR; xterm can't even see decent fonts
22:18 MinceR; and if rxvt is anything like urxvt, then it's slow as molasses
22:18 TR News; 22718 Microsoft / Windows / Microsoft Windows Print Spooler Privilege Escalation Vulnerability https://us-cert.cisa.gov/ncas/current-activity/2022/04/19/cisa-adds-three-known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog
22:18 TR Bot; CISA Adds Three Known Exploited Vulnerabilities to Catalog | CISA
22:19 activelow; both urxvt and xterm were fast and stable here; if they're slow, then it is probably not xterm or urxvt at fault
22:20 activelow; for example, i chose the fbdev xorg video output, which is much faster, independent from the terminal emulator
22:21 activelow; with fbdev, if the kernel framebuffer device driver is fast, which it is, then xterm or urxvt are too
22:21 activelow; currently, i prefer urxvt, because with it legacy BSD pty support remained
22:23 activelow; anyway, the problem is GTK3, and harfbuzz
22:26 MinceR; "here" is probably a lot faster than an rpi1 so you can't really see how glacially slow urxvt is
22:26 MinceR; libvte and konsole were both far faster
22:29 activelow; cortex a53, no opengl, raw framebuffer xorg/fbdev
22:30 activelow; ironically, with the modesetting/opengl support active, xterm was slower on this device, than 2d-only/fbdev without any "acceleration"
22:30 activelow; i don't think it is xterm at fault, xterm was used on humble device with far less RAM; the RPI1 is a relatively powerful device already
22:31 activelow; whatever the problem was, it probably wasn't xterm nor the RPI1 at fault
22:34 activelow; anyway, GTK3, demands harfbuzz, and there isn't any harfbuzz version implemented in C; next i'll try to remove harfbuzz dependency from GTK3
22:34 activelow; if this is not possible, then GTK3 is dead
22:34 activelow; it cannot remain inside base system then
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22:39 activelow; gtk->pango->harfbuzz
22:43 activelow; that's the irony, GTK developers implemented gobject to avoid c++, and then harfbuzz locked in written in c++
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22:49 DaemonFC; https://www.tsbsearch.com/Chevrolet/PIT5818
22:49 TR Bot; PIT5818 Chevrolet Technical Service Bulletin
22:59 IPFS; IPFS downstream 60 minutes average 21.53 k/sec., IPFS upstream 46.68 average k/sec., average swarm size 335.28
23:08 DaemonFC; https://wgntv.com/news/coronavirus/illinois-drops-mask-mandate-to-align-with-court-ruling/
23:08 TR Bot; Illinois drops mask mandate to align with court ruling | WGN-TV
23:08 DaemonFC; I replied: And just before the election, the Democrats saw the polls and it went away, and here's $50 from Prickster, and we'll "freeze" the gas tax until exactly after the election is over, and whatever you need for the next few months. Yeah sure you betcha snookums."
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23:10 DaemonFC; https://wgntv.com/news/south-carolina-inmate-picks-firing-squad-over-electric-chair-2/
23:10 TR Bot; South Carolina inmate picks firing squad over electric chair | WGN-TV
23:10 DaemonFC; I replied: He shot his victim, he doesn't even deny it. The injustice is that it took 23 years for him to die the same way when it should have happened in 1999 in the convenience store, while the clerk went home to his family.
23:12 schestowitz-TR; going out with a bang
23:12 schestowitz-TR; leaving more impact, too
23:12 schestowitz-TR; being one of the first in a long time
23:12 schestowitz-TR; "Fame at last!"
23:15 *AltLink_97e (~AltLink_97e@2f7u5j6f87p9g.irc) has joined #techrights
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23:19 TR News; Debian GNU/Linux Means Free as in Freedom, But the Firmware Question Remains Relevant | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/04/19/proprietary-firmware-debian/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/04/19/proprietary-firmware-debian/
23:19 TR Bot; Debian GNU/Linux Means Free as in Freedom, But the Firmware Question Remains Relevant | Techrights
23:19 *Skywave (~SkywaveC3@5adyqrxsr3hiq.irc) has joined #techrights
23:24 DaemonFC; schestowitz-TR, I was reading about the GM Iron Duke Inline 4 earlier.
23:24 DaemonFC; They should have just kept making those.
23:25 DaemonFC; But that's what a company that wants you to have a trouble free car for a while would do.
23:25 DaemonFC; Apparently some of them were performance models with 3 liters of displacement, making them comparable in performance to a small V6.
23:26 DaemonFC; There's really no point making a V6 that has less than about 2.8 liters of displacement, so when I saw that GM had a 3 liter Iron Duke, that interested me.
23:30 *techrights-ipfs-bot has quit (Ping timeout: 2m30s)
23:31 TR News; LibrePlanet workshop - May 16 - Software localization (translation) of web-based project https://www.fsf.org/events/libreplanet-workshop-may-16-software-localization-translation-of-web-based-projects
23:31 TR Bot; LibrePlanet workshop - May 16 - Software localization (translation) of web-based projects Free Software Foundation Working together for free software
23:34 DaemonFC; schestowitz-TR, If this was green coolant and not orange, the entire system would be corroded to the point of the car not even working anymore.
23:34 DaemonFC; Which is a big reason why they switched to orange.
23:40 TR News; Tidelift is Connected to Microsoft and It Does Not Spread a Positive Message for the Free/Open Source Community | Techrights http://techrights.org/2022/04/19/tidelift-concern-troll/ | Gemini address: gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2022/04/19/tidelift-concern-troll/
23:40 TR Bot; Tidelift is Connected to Microsoft and It Does Not Spread a Positive Message for the Free/Open Source Community | Techrights
23:42 activelow; it is font-rendering library harfbuzz which terminated GTK2/3 support without c++
23:43 activelow; which is irritating, because font-rendering otherwise is available, including truetype for X11, however that's not good enough for GTK2/3 anymore, which insists on pango/harfbuzz
23:44 activelow; at least i know, who and what the trouble source is: harfbuzz
23:45 activelow; facebook, google, red hat, gnome
23:47 activelow; and it is noteworthy, because harfbuzz being implemented with c++ is inconsistent with GTK and gobject
23:47 activelow; if at least harfbuzz was _optional_, it isn't, this was drilled as a coffin nail into GTK
23:48 activelow; long before systemd/dbus, which are optional, this could be removed from GTK, harfbuzz cannot without re-implementing this
23:48 TR News; Today in #Techrights Tux Machines http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/163919
23:48 TR Bot; Today in Techrights | Tux Machines
23:52 activelow; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behdad_Esfahbod
23:52 TR Bot; Behdad Esfahbod - Wikipedia
23:52 activelow; Seyed Behdad Esfahbod MirHosseinZadeh Sarabi
23:52 activelow; he has led are the Cairo, fontconfig, HarfBuzz, and Pango libraries
23:52 activelow; was arrested by the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps intelligence
23:52 activelow; Iranian security forces let him go based on his promise to spy on his friends once he was back in the United States
23:52 DaemonFC; https://fortwayne.craigslist.org/ctd/d/kokomo-2005-ford-crown-victoria-standard/7472863898.html
23:52 TR Bot; 2005 Ford Crown Victoria Standard - cars & trucks - by dealer -...
23:54 DaemonFC; https://fortwayne.craigslist.org/ctd/d/churubusco-sporty-luxury-2004-mercedes/7472055022.html
23:54 TR Bot; SPORTY LUXURY!! 2004 MERCEDES-BENZ S500 4MATIC ALL WHEEL DRIVE!! -...
23:54 DaemonFC; Mercedes is at least better than BMW if you have to have a German luxury car.
23:54 activelow; long story short: GTK will be removed from the base system, once and for all; the pango/harfbuzz/c++ dependency chain is unacceptable
23:55 activelow; besides, farsi and arab font rendering aren't particularly important, and were available without harfbuzz before
23:55 *matey (~matey@hbb3pgaksxfbq.irc) has joined #techrights
23:55 SomeH4x0r; hi
23:56 schestowitz-TR; 0/
23:56 schestowitz-TR; hello all, shop closed ;p
23:56 SomeH4x0r; matey: can't remember if you were here when I said it, UplinkIRC had a lot of strangers today, though not really useful anyway.
23:57 matey; okay
23:57 matey; i saw your friend by the way
23:57 matey; borto
23:57 matey; activelow long story short: GTK will be removed from the base system \o/
23:58 matey; bye, gtk
23:58 SomeH4x0r; yes, they appeared once, and today they didn't appear anywhere
23:58 matey; i havent paid any attention to borto yet, but i noticed he was here and i didnt ignore him
23:58 matey; if he comes back ill probably notice
23:58 matey; i dont know him you know
23:59 activelow; matey: it is even more interesting _why_ it must be removed
23:59 activelow; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behdad_Esfahbod
23:59 TR Bot; Behdad Esfahbod - Wikipedia
23:59 matey; activelow which is irritating, because font-rendering otherwise is available, including truetype for X11, however that's not good enough for GTK2/3 anymore, which insists on pango/harfbuzz <- ive been whinging about harfbuzz for a year
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