gemini://gemini.techrights.org/2009/05/06/irc-boycottnovell-freenode-may-6th-2009-part-2/

_Hicham_they were the first to support KMSMay 06 02:05oiaohmKMS is low level tech.May 06 02:06oiaohmopengl is userspace tech.May 06 02:06oiaohmIts having all the parts.May 06 02:06_Hicham_but KMS is affecting OpenGL, no?May 06 02:06_Hicham_if I activate KMS, OpenGL windows freeze the systemMay 06 02:07oiaohmThat sounds like DRI1 driver trying to operate with KMS.May 06 02:07_Hicham_yesMay 06 02:08oiaohmOr DRI 1 opengl trying to operate with KMS.May 06 02:08_Hicham_that won’t work?May 06 02:08oiaohmYep.May 06 02:08oiaohmYou need all DRI2 support parts to operate with KMS.May 06 02:08oiaohm+ KMS support in X11 server.May 06 02:08_Hicham_so I should upgrade to xserver 1.6?May 06 02:08oiaohmProblem here last time I looked for ATI there was not a complete set of parts yet.May 06 02:09oiaohmNo matching opengl.May 06 02:09oiaohmSo 2d only worked.May 06 02:09_Hicham_what kernel was that?May 06 02:10_Hicham_2.6.29?May 06 02:10oiaohmopengl is a userspace part.May 06 02:11oiaohmmesa3d project. Still has not formully released the version required for DRI2.May 06 02:11*Balrog has quit ()May 06 02:12_Hicham_they have no release schedule?May 06 02:12oiaohm2.6.30 parts I have been looking at recently and its not released yet either. Might have been in 2.6.29May 06 02:12oiaohmMiddle of year was the planed release scheduleMay 06 02:12oiaohmBasically you are early.May 06 02:12_Hicham_I must go to sleepMay 06 02:15_Hicham_gnMay 06 02:15*_Hicham_ has quit (Remote closed the connection)May 06 02:15oiaohmhttp://www.williannogueira.com.br/blog/wp… May 06 11:11_Hicham_gcc can even be redesignedMay 06 11:11oiaohmCore design for gcc is not that bad.May 06 11:11oiaohmIts all the code rot on top.May 06 11:11oiaohmIt had 1 major design error no link time optmisiation.May 06 11:12*mib_0s7jfd (i=7d11ae06@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0271c1bf4609b162) has joined #boycottnovellMay 06 11:12mib_0s7jfdwhat’s this?May 06 11:12*mib_0s7jfd (i=7d11ae06@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0271c1bf4609b162) has left #boycottnovellMay 06 11:12_Hicham_I think that multithreading optimization can be addedMay 06 11:13_Hicham_it is not that bigMay 06 11:13_Hicham_plus Intel will hopefully contribute from some of its icc code baseMay 06 11:13oiaohmmultithreading is pointless if you don’t have no link time optmisation to split the threads up accross the complete program.May 06 11:16oiaohmLink time optimisation is very much a key stone to optimise programs correctly.May 06 11:17oiaohmWithout it you cannot.May 06 11:17_Hicham_hopefully it will be done in the next yearsMay 06 11:18oiaohmhttp://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/LinkTi… Its under way.May 06 11:18oiaohmIf lucky maybe end of year.May 06 11:19oiaohmIf not llvm might get there first.May 06 11:19schestowitz“I have a nagging suspicion Microsoft might shoot down this trial balloon before it expands into a full-blown marketing disaster. Acer and Intel, for example, are already complaining that Windows 7 Starter Edition simply won’t sell.” http://www.bmighty.com/blog/main/…May 06 11:22oiaohmStarter is going to be a disaster.May 06 11:23oiaohmSo far not one netbook maker has said they will ship it.May 06 11:23oiaohmMost have said they will stay with XP.May 06 11:24oiaohmOr go to Linux.May 06 11:24oiaohmEven Windows 7 starter is too heavy on resources.May 06 11:24*mib_fobnbl (i=c0a314e8@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-68e96dea82776518) has joined #boycottnovellMay 06 11:25_Hicham_why people stick to Windows?May 06 11:26oiaohmIts what they know.May 06 11:27oiaohmMost people are trained to fear anything different.May 06 11:27_Hicham_I try to make people use Linux in my classroom, but they do not want toMay 06 11:29_Hicham_they can’t even seem to know how to browse their folders in LinuxMay 06 11:29iwmwyou better show them how cool linux isMay 06 11:30_Hicham_which is really weirdMay 06 11:30oiaohmIt is not.May 06 11:30iwmwthey will migrate themselvesMay 06 11:30_Hicham_I already doMay 06 11:30oiaohmThey are trained to fear.May 06 11:30oiaohmUnder windows do the wrong thing it BSOD’s.May 06 11:30oiaohmexploring is punished.May 06 11:30iwmw_Hicham_: then show them how in a better way you do smth that they do with windowsMay 06 11:30_Hicham_I tried times and times againMay 06 11:31oiaohmI normally break the fear on windows before introducing linux.May 06 11:31_Hicham_I even give them pirated software that runs on LinuxMay 06 11:31iwmwthen they are just limitedMay 06 11:31_Hicham_commercial pirated softwareMay 06 11:31oiaohmDid you break there fear of crashing the machine _Hicham_May 06 11:32_Hicham_for example : MATLABMay 06 11:32_Hicham_yesMay 06 11:32_Hicham_as they always see me running LinuxMay 06 11:32_Hicham_for daily useMay 06 11:32oiaohmWhere they exploring applicatiosn before you indroduced Linux.May 06 11:32oiaohmIe trying new applications on windows without fear.May 06 11:32_Hicham_some don’t even want to try Firefox on WindowsMay 06 11:33_Hicham_it is fucking weirdMay 06 11:33oiaohmExactly.May 06 11:33_Hicham_I just gave up on themMay 06 11:33oiaohmYou have moved too far too soon.May 06 11:33_Hicham_Linux people should be more aggressiveMay 06 11:33_Hicham_and force Windows to go downMay 06 11:33_Hicham_no more gentle wayMay 06 11:33oiaohmIf they will not try firefox or openoffice… abiword…May 06 11:33oiaohmOn windows.May 06 11:34oiaohmWhen you get them on Linux they know nothing.May 06 11:34oiaohmSo they have strange interface.May 06 11:34oiaohmand strange software.May 06 11:34_Hicham_they all stick to fucking MS Office 2007May 06 11:34oiaohmso they go back to fear.May 06 11:34oiaohmAnd go back to what they know.May 06 11:34oiaohmSo you fail.May 06 11:34_Hicham_a professor was teaching us LaTeX with a pirated softwareMay 06 11:35_Hicham_!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????May 06 11:35oiaohmIts the same thing.May 06 11:35oiaohmFear.May 06 11:35_Hicham_that is why I say : Open Source should stop developing for WindowsMay 06 11:35oiaohmThat don’t help fight fear.May 06 11:35_Hicham_no more Open Source programs for WindowsMay 06 11:36oiaohmSo they will stick with commerical.May 06 11:36oiaohmNo win that path.May 06 11:36_Hicham_better focus on more important things than cross platformingMay 06 11:36oiaohmIts method.May 06 11:36oiaohmI guess lot would not even use 7-zipMay 06 11:36_Hicham_they will stay with commercial even with cross platformingMay 06 11:36_Hicham_7-zip have choosen the wrong way with MFCMay 06 11:37oiaohmYou are not getting my question.May 06 11:37_Hicham_what is ur question?May 06 11:37_Hicham_please Steve Ballmer?May 06 11:37iwmw_Hicham_: in university we were always taught with pirated softwareMay 06 11:37oiaohmIf these people fear using different applications for different tasks.May 06 11:37iwmwon every subjectMay 06 11:37oiaohmThere is no way for them to go to Linux.May 06 11:38_Hicham_“We want to see all of the Open Source innovation on our Platform”May 06 11:38oiaohmYou will find they are like stuck with 1 burning software.May 06 11:38oiaohm1 office suit.May 06 11:38_Hicham_that is not a solutionMay 06 11:38oiaohmBasically 1 of everything including OS.May 06 11:38_Hicham_the radical solution isMay 06 11:38oiaohmPeople like that cannot be moved in there current mind state.May 06 11:38_Hicham_bribe computer vendors to ship LinuxMay 06 11:39oiaohmThere are particular things Openoffice can do faster and simpler than MS office.May 06 11:39_Hicham_FSF should be more aggressiveMay 06 11:39_Hicham_we shouldn’t explain to peopleMay 06 11:39oiaohmJust like firefox’s extentions let it do things IE cannot.May 06 11:39_Hicham_no explanations for peopleMay 06 11:39_Hicham_we need actionsMay 06 11:39oiaohmBreaking the fear requires the right approce.May 06 11:40oiaohmIts like gimp vs photoshop.May 06 11:40_Hicham_we don’t have to break their fearMay 06 11:40iwmwyou won’t break the fear with aggressive actionsMay 06 11:40_Hicham_it is all about forcingMay 06 11:40oiaohmYes gimp does not beat photoshop everywhere but it does in some areas..May 06 11:40_Hicham_like pushing hardware vendors to not support WindowsMay 06 11:40oiaohmOnce the fear is broken introducing Linux goes over well.May 06 11:40*mib_o94uh2 (i=cbce4332@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4b6950bd4e3e62dc) has joined #boycottnovellMay 06 11:41_Hicham_what do u think if Nvidia and ATI stopped supporting Windows?May 06 11:41oiaohmThey will just explore and say I like that and I hate that and they will be talking about both OS’s.May 06 11:41_Hicham_what do u think if game developers stopped developing for Windows?May 06 11:41_Hicham_what do u think if adobe stopped developing flash for Windows?May 06 11:41oiaohmDid Mac users leave just because there software droped.May 06 11:42_Hicham_tell meMay 06 11:42mib_o94uh2“what do you think if pigs could fly?”May 06 11:42oiaohmThat line you are on will not work.May 06 11:42_Hicham_Mac users are more aware than Windows usersMay 06 11:42oiaohmFear will lock them in.May 06 11:42*mib_o94uh2 is now known as uda_May 06 11:42oiaohmNot all Mac users.May 06 11:42*uda (n=uda@203-206-67-50.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #boycottnovellMay 06 11:42oiaohmYou don’t understand the Fear that is the problem.May 06 11:42*uda_ has quit (Client Quit)May 06 11:42_Hicham_there is no fearMay 06 11:43_Hicham_people don’t even know what is an OSMay 06 11:43_Hicham_it is not about fearMay 06 11:43oiaohmWill they use programs they have never used before.May 06 11:43oiaohmIf no they have the fear.May 06 11:43_Hicham_for new users, yesMay 06 11:43_Hicham_a new user doesn’t know about OSMay 06 11:43oiaohmYou will find over 90 percent of windows users will not.May 06 11:44_Hicham_or office suiteMay 06 11:44oiaohmThey have fear.May 06 11:44oiaohmDon’t show it.May 06 11:44_Hicham_I am talking about first time usersMay 06 11:44oiaohmIn any other form than actions.May 06 11:44oiaohmFirst time users with no windows experince at all take quite well to Linux.May 06 11:44oiaohmJust there are almost none of them.May 06 11:45oiaohmMost have minor windows experince more often enough to have the fear.May 06 11:45_Hicham_because of shipping Windows on machinesMay 06 11:45oiaohmHuman nature is to fear anything different.May 06 11:46_Hicham_bribing software vendors will helpMay 06 11:46oiaohmThat has to be broken before you can get anywhere.May 06 11:46oiaohmAppling force just makes persons hidding fear worse.May 06 11:47_Hicham_to display a bios message like : “don’t use Windows, it is very dangerous!”May 06 11:47oiaohmThat will not work.May 06 11:47_Hicham_hardware vendors are the keyMay 06 11:47_Hicham_why it won’t work?May 06 11:47oiaohmTrying to create a new fear to distroy old now creates a person with 2 fears.May 06 11:48oiaohmInstead of 1.May 06 11:48oiaohmSo going backwards.May 06 11:48_Hicham_better than letting him confident in WindowsMay 06 11:48oiaohmPart of the problem most are not confident in there IT skills.May 06 11:49oiaohmSo fear can take hold of them.May 06 11:49_Hicham_Distros are now more user friendlyMay 06 11:50_Hicham_take for example Fedora,Ubuntu,Mandriva, OpenSuseMay 06 11:50oiaohmI still remember starting my mother off on a computer and bending the side of the case with foot. Saying this machine is a junker if you don’t use I am putting it in the crusher anyhow.May 06 11:50oiaohmSo you really cannot break it any worse than I am planing.May 06 11:50_Hicham_what do u suggest to break the market lock-in?May 06 11:51oiaohmuser friendly is worthless if user has fear that blocks some from exploring and experiencing the user friendlyness.May 06 11:51oiaohmFirst part is excepting the fear exists _Hicham_May 06 11:52oiaohmSecound part is taking it on in a positive way. Like with feature demos that doing particular things you can do better in other programs.May 06 11:52oiaohmFinaly leading up to that particular things are better in different OS’s.May 06 11:53oiaohmThis is a postive process you are providing users with faster/cheeper and better ways to get stuff down.May 06 11:53oiaohmOne of my normal Linux introductions is that windows has died and using a Linux livecd they can get there important files.May 06 11:54udasorry for a little off topic q, but i downloaded server08 trial to see what silverlight is all about, and suspect iso may be corrupt. anyone have crc/md5/sha for 6001.18000.080118-1840_x86fre_Se rver_en-us-KRMSFRE_EN_DVD.iso ?May 06 11:55oiaohmuda I am not touching silverlight with a ten foot pole.May 06 11:55oiaohmNotice somethign here _Hicham_ my Linux introduction is not about using it for everything it allowing them todo something they might need 1 day.May 06 11:56*mib_mhekfj (i=c910e07d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-a6c2989f6a8f1e7f) has joined #boycottnovellMay 06 11:56oiaohmAlso if you are downloading from MS there are checksums on the download page uda.May 06 11:58oiaohmuda so its really strange to be asking for checksums.May 06 11:59udaoiaohm, not from this one for some reasonMay 06 11:59udahttp://www.microsoft.com/downloads/de…May 06 11:59oiaohmOk its one of those.May 06 12:02oiaohmIts dated on download so unless 2 people download on the same day you cannot checksum.May 06 12:02oiaohmall you can do is run a iso defect check.May 06 12:03*mib_mhekfj is now known as Ap0G33May 06 12:09_Hicham_what do u think of deltarpms?May 06 12:14oiaohmdeltarpms most of the time will work.May 06 12:17oiaohmThere is always a risk of course of preexisting damage having side effects not expected.May 06 12:17schestowitzRed Hat States Its Case Against Software Patents http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/…May 06 12:18schestowitzMicrosoft Moonlight Reaches New Milestone So Microsoft Crowd Rejoices http://boycottnovell.com/2009/…May 06 12:19_Hicham_I think that it is easy to implementMay 06 12:19_Hicham_and wondering why linux lacked such an easy featureMay 06 12:20oiaohmEvery check sum can fail _Hicham_May 06 12:20oiaohmIn away that next check sum passes.May 06 12:20_Hicham_it is not related to checksumsMay 06 12:20oiaohmIt is.May 06 12:20_Hicham_checksums are download relatedMay 06 12:20oiaohmdelta contains a form of checksum so it don’t patch wrong file.May 06 12:21oiaohmIt has been avoided on the point of view it was just wiser to replace the lot.May 06 12:21schestowitzBallmer’s bunker speech: http://vowe.net/archives/010470.htmlMay 06 12:22_Hicham_it is about remanaging rpm databaseMay 06 12:24_Hicham_schestowitz : I won’t get upset if RedHat patented a piece of softwareMay 06 12:25oiaohmdelta cannot be patented.May 06 12:25oiaohmIts too old.May 06 12:25_Hicham_im not talking about patenting deltaMay 06 12:25oiaohmdelta rpmsMay 06 12:26oiaohmIs about reducing the storage of duplicate rpms by using deltaMay 06 12:26_Hicham_yes, i just answered schestowitzMay 06 12:26oiaohmThere are side effects.May 06 12:26_Hicham_side effects can be managedMay 06 12:27oiaohmHmmMay 06 12:27_Hicham_basically delta rpms are very simple theoreticallyMay 06 12:27oiaohmDo you know that the side effect are.May 06 12:27_Hicham_u have rpm version 1, and rpm version 2May 06 12:27_Hicham_then u need deltarpm2-1May 06 12:28_Hicham_the downloaded delta will modify rpm database to provide rpm version 2May 06 12:28_Hicham_so no rpm database corruption can occurMay 06 12:28oiaohmThe delta is the diff between versions. What if first version that delta is working on is damaged in a way you cannot detect.May 06 12:29oiaohmThings kinda can go south badly.May 06 12:30oiaohmIts not without its risks.May 06 12:30oiaohmFor a long time Linux developers have just avoided the path.May 06 12:31oiaohmThere are advantages to not patching a program over and over again and just putting in fresh versions.May 06 12:32oiaohmBasically both ways have downsides and advantages.May 06 12:32oiaohmYou will learn for almost every advantage in IT _Hicham_ there is a downside.May 06 12:32_Hicham_patched software equals fresh versionMay 06 12:34_Hicham_in theoryMay 06 12:34oiaohmReal world it don’t.May 06 12:34oiaohmMost of the time yes.May 06 12:34oiaohmBut there are odd cases were it will not due to damage.May 06 12:34oiaohmtheory you are using its not allowing for real world damage to files _Hicham_May 06 12:36_Hicham_that is QAMay 06 12:36_Hicham_not concept relatedMay 06 12:36oiaohmNop.May 06 12:36oiaohmQA don’t help you nere.May 06 12:36oiaohmhereMay 06 12:36oiaohmProblem happens in the machine user end.May 06 12:36oiaohmNot where you are developing the deltaMay 06 12:37oiaohmCheck sums are using with delta in rpm to try to prevent this event from happing.May 06 12:39oiaohmTry is the key word _Hicham_May 06 12:39oiaohmRemember I said they would work most of the time.May 06 12:40oiaohmThere will be the poor unlucky sods out there where it decides not to most likely 1 in 20 million or so.May 06 12:41schestowitzSome artwork: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/…May 06 12:42*_Hicham_1 (n=hicham@wana-104-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovellMay 06 12:43oiaohmOk what was the last line you got from me _Hicham_1May 06 12:43_Hicham_1that deltarpms are not gonna be that good in practiceMay 06 12:43schestowitzRed Hat should not patent softwareMay 06 12:44schestowitzI don’t agreeMay 06 12:44schestowitzThat opens the door to everyone and makes a patent minefieldMay 06 12:44schestowitzWhat you say is, “give a gun to this one person”May 06 12:44schestowitzWhy|?May 06 12:44oiaohm_Hicham_1 We are not talking large number here 1 in 20 million or less risk of deltarpms going south. When you have 1000 + users hanging of a machine minor risks worry you.May 06 12:45oiaohmSome of those would download files twice and compare them. So bandwidth saving is not a issue to them.May 06 12:46_Hicham_1package quality is up to the maintainerMay 06 12:46_Hicham_1also deltarpm qualityMay 06 12:46oiaohmProblem is the defect is not maintainer side.May 06 12:46oiaohmIts user machine side.May 06 12:46_Hicham_1what defect if it well tested?May 06 12:46oiaohmDamage to files due to drives and controllers.May 06 12:47_Hicham_1schestowitz : RedHat need to make more moneyMay 06 12:47oiaohmIt does happen.May 06 12:47_Hicham_1ah, I see nowMay 06 12:47schestowitzThe anti-Stallman crowd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?…May 06 12:47_Hicham_1ur thinking in term of data recoveryMay 06 12:47schestowitzPosing as LinuxMay 06 12:47oiaohmI am thinking since it a patch if what it is patch is screwed up but not detectable.May 06 12:48oiaohmPatch will still apply giving a not working program.May 06 12:48*_Hicham_ has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))May 06 12:48oiaohmAlso the file on the client end that has been on the drive all that time could be damaged.May 06 12:49*_Hicham_1 has quit (Remote closed the connection)May 06 12:49oiaohmIt comes down to if you detect the fault.May 06 12:49oiaohmschestowitz: I guess you alreadly understood everything I was saying to _Hicham_May 06 12:50*_Hicham_ (n=hicham@wana-104-245-12-196.wanamaroc.com) has joined #boycottnovellMay 06 12:50oiaohm_Hicham_: it basically comes down how to you know when you should not apply the patch.May 06 12:50_Hicham_so the risk is hardware failure related?May 06 12:50oiaohmDue to what you are lining up to patch is damaged but you cannot detect it.May 06 12:50oiaohmIts hardware glitch releated.May 06 12:51oiaohmLike a cable being bumped at the wrong time.May 06 12:51oiaohmNot broken hardware as such.May 06 12:51oiaohmReal world has such glitches.May 06 12:51schestowitzNew release of gnote (ping trmanco )May 06 12:51_Hicham_Yes, I see nowMay 06 12:51_Hicham_so deltarpms are a bad idea then?May 06 12:52oiaohmsaving in bandwidth most likely worth it.May 06 12:52oiaohmFor most people.May 06 12:52oiaohmBut it is use with care.May 06 12:52oiaohmAnd if you have ben deltarpm patching and a program goes strange.May 06 12:53_Hicham_only if u sure than u have no disk problems, include filesystem problems?May 06 12:53oiaohmIt might pay to download the full rpm and use that.May 06 12:53oiaohmfilesystem problems rarely cause a undetectable.May 06 12:53oiaohmBasically nothing is magical.May 06 12:54oiaohmIts how you manage the risk and being aware that you have the risk that X installed progroms might be damaged from the extreamally rare event.May 06 12:54*uda (n=uda@203-206-67-50.dyn.iinet.net.au) has left #boycottnovell (“Leaving”)May 06 12:54schestowitzWeird headline in Schneier: “Security Considerations in the Design of the Human Penis” http://www.schneier.com/blog/archiv…May 06 12:55schestowitz“I have been informed, multiple times, that sandals over socks are a revolting and unforgivable fashion sin.” http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200…May 06 12:57schestowitzIDG advertises Windows: http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?…May 06 13:00schestowitzNo Mac fans attacking this one yet? Slow day for them? http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cf…May 06 13:06schestowitzMicrosoft bought Massive just to lay off its employees: http://venturebeat.com/200…May 06 13:10oiaohmLot of MS staff must be praying it stops at 5000May 06 13:14*_Hicham_ has quit (“Leaving.”)May 06 13:17*mikankun has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))May 06 13:20iwmwi suspect that there should not be Massive at all… like there should be no ads. especially in gamesMay 06 13:23schestowitzMicrosoft’s Massive sheds off about 75% of its people: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/05/…May 06 13:27schestowitzLabels Losing Money With iTunes Variable Pricing http://techdirt.com/articles/20…May 06 13:32schestowitzWhat’s a “label”? May 06 13:33oiaohmDay MS shutdowns there seach engine we know they are in troubl.May 06 13:35oiaohmtrouble.May 06 13:35schestowitzYesMay 06 13:36schestowitzGiving up on the obsessionMay 06 13:36schestowitzThey could be in very deep debt had they bought YahooMay 06 13:36schestowitzLike $30bn in debtMay 06 13:36schestowitzAnd that’s BEFORE the fnancial meltdownMay 06 13:36oiaohmExactly what information do you think that search engine spider gives them.May 06 13:36schestowitzPersonal or site-wise?May 06 13:36schestowitzThey tried Ad Centre (?)May 06 13:37oiaohmFrom a PR point of view.May 06 13:37schestowitzNow it’s being castrated (April 2009)May 06 13:37schestowitzThey needed it to spy on surfersMay 06 13:37schestowitzThey also have IE7 and IE8 to spy on usersMay 06 13:37schestowitzLike Google’s ToolbarMay 06 13:37schestowitzoiaohm: it’s not PRMay 06 13:37schestowitzIt’s old Microsoft tacticvsMay 06 13:37oiaohmHow do you think MS finds sites that make bad comments agaisnt them.May 06 13:38schestowitzIt’s the “suffocate competitor” tacticMay 06 13:38schestowitz“Tily into death spiral” or “house of cards”May 06 13:38oiaohmWho is going to raise the eyes at a search engine spider.May 06 13:38schestowitzIf MS can steal GOogle’s revenue source then it limits Google’s ability to craql and maintain blacklistsMay 06 13:38schestowitz*crawlMay 06 13:38schestowitzGoogle has good blacklistsMay 06 13:38schestowitzI sent them some data too (Matt Cutts)May 06 13:38schestowitzThere’s loads of rubbish on the WebMay 06 13:39schestowitzIf you don’t know which half (or two thirds) to flush, you’re a no-starterMay 06 13:39schestowitzoiaohm: re: “How do you think MS finds sites that make bad comments agaisnt them.” see W-EMay 06 13:39schestowitzThey do this using their ‘methods’May 06 13:39schestowitzLike in TwitterMay 06 13:39*schestowitz gets linkMay 06 13:39oiaohmW-E still has to be getting access to spider information.May 06 13:40schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/12/mi…May 06 13:40schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2009/03/25…May 06 13:40oiaohmThere are cases of them finding sites before many users visit.May 06 13:40schestowitzThe consequence: http://boycottnovell.com/2009/0…May 06 13:40schestowitzThey do lots of this for ODF now, I think. Pretending MS supports it.May 06 13:41schestowitzThey can create dummy accounts or whatever to spout out rubbish c(PR)May 06 13:41schestowitzTwitter is FULL of rubbishMay 06 13:41schestowitzLike half the ‘users’ who make me a ‘friend’ are botsMay 06 13:41schestowitzSpammers or botsMay 06 13:41schestowitzoiaohm: like SurfaceMay 06 13:42schestowitzThey pulled the review within less than a dayMay 06 13:42schestowitzMSMay 06 13:42oiaohmLike the Surface case.May 06 13:42schestowitzMaybe Waggener alerted themMay 06 13:42oiaohmThere are many like that.May 06 13:42schestowitzBecase that’s how it worksMay 06 13:42schestowitzI’ll get you an exampleMay 06 13:42oiaohmWaggener is most likely getting access to MS search spider cache.May 06 13:42schestowitzRead this: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/…May 06 13:42schestowitzwaggener edstrom ensures first Vista7 reviews are bribed for: waggener-edstromMay 06 13:43schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/…May 06 13:43oiaohmThat is only half there job.May 06 13:43oiaohmThe other half is detecting where problems are.May 06 13:44schestowitzWE corrupts journalists: http://boycottnovell.com/2008/12/10/…May 06 13:44schestowitzOr just MS in this caseMay 06 13:44schestowitzWho knowsMay 06 13:44oiaohmWE job is to corrupt media.May 06 13:44schestowitzWE planted stories using Maureen OgaraMay 06 13:44schestowitzProbably for SCO tooMay 06 13:44oiaohmAlso monitor it.May 06 13:44schestowitzTo create fearMay 06 13:44oiaohmNothing creates more fear in a person than the appearce of the hand of god.May 06 13:45schestowitzMS and waggener edstrom ban reviewer from touching Vista7: waggener edstromMay 06 13:45schestowitzhttp://boycottnovell.com/2008/11/01/…May 06 13:45schestowitzThey prevented this guy from writiing about itMay 06 13:45schestowitzWhy?May 06 13:45schestowitzCause they did intelligenceMay 06 13:45oiaohmYepMay 06 13:45schestowitzThey say he wrote nagative things beforeMay 06 13:45schestowitzSo they have dossiersMay 06 13:45schestowitzThey got caught leaking dossiersMay 06 13:45schestowitzThen, they know which people to track and harrassMay 06 13:46schestowitzMary Jo Foley told me about itMay 06 13:46schestowitzJournalists are being assigned ‘buddies’ by MicrosoftMay 06 13:46schestowitzPeople who police youMay 06 13:46schestowitzEquivalent of some neo-StatsiMay 06 13:46oiaohmMS is not the only one in this kind of game.May 06 13:46schestowitzI knowMay 06 13:46schestowitzBut show me this for other companiesMay 06 13:46schestowitzYou can’tMay 06 13:46schestowitzLike lobbyingMay 06 13:47schestowitzMicrosoft is BY FAR the dirtiest in this areaMay 06 13:47schestowitzIt built itself on itMay 06 13:47schestowitzWatch how much coverage they get May 06 13:47schestowitzCompare to IBMMay 06 13:47schestowitzSoon you realise that MS is a marketing movementMay 06 13:47schestowitzAbove most elseMay 06 13:47oiaohmAnd some of MS operations exist just to hide what they are doing.May 06 13:48schestowitzTwitter Shuts Down StatTweets May 06 13:48schestowitzoiaohm: yes, covering one’s own tracksMay 06 13:48oiaohmWhy else would have MS maintained a search engine department making loss after loss.May 06 13:48schestowitzThat too is PRMay 06 13:48schestowitzThe PR of PRMay 06 13:48schestowitzWatching the watcher. Covering up for coverupMay 06 13:48oiaohmAlso search engine losses always go up when a new OS is coming out too.May 06 13:49oiaohmThat is kinda sus.May 06 13:49iwmwi don’t get it… does m$ have patents on opengl?May 06 13:49schestowitzThis new case discusses privacy: Supreme Court Justice Scalia Given Lesson In Internet Privacy http://techdirt.com/articles/2…May 06 13:50schestowitzIt is eerily similar to what they did to eEric Schmidt around 2006May 06 13:50oiaohmNo Ms does not have any patents on opengl why iwmwMay 06 13:50schestowitzDo you think this case might have MS involvement?May 06 13:50schestowitzMS overplays the “privacy” card by funding groups that attack GoogleMay 06 13:50schestowitzThere are maybe 3 like theseMay 06 13:50schestowitzSome are confirmedMay 06 13:50oiaohmPrivacy card should be turned on MS.May 06 13:50iwmwoiaohm: i just read http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/07…May 06 13:50schestowitzSome were created by Microsoft, for a factMay 06 13:50schestowitzoiaohm: yes, MS is worse privacy violatorMay 06 13:51schestowitzWindows for exampleMay 06 13:51schestowitzIEMay 06 13:51schestowitzLiveMay 06 13:51schestowitzMSNMay 06 13:51schestowitzHotmailMay 06 13:51schestowitzZuneMay 06 13:51schestowitz(surveillance device)May 06 13:51schestowitzThe End Of The IPO Drought Is Coming . Sounds far from plausible. The economic meltdown has not even begun yet. The nation is just borrowing more money.May 06 13:53oiaohmThat is a very old artical iwmwMay 06 13:53oiaohmMS for a while though they had.May 06 13:54

● 05.06.09

●● IRC: #boycottnovell @ FreeNode: May 6th, 2009 – Part 2