●● IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 ●● ● Nov 18 [00:03] CrystalMath and what is this crap? https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/11/16/21570072/obama-internet-threat-democracy-facebook-fox-atlantic [00:03] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Obama says internet, social media are threat to democracy - Vox [00:03] XRevan86 What's the tl;dr? They kind of are, but they also aren't, depends on the angle. [00:05] *psymin has quit (Quit: Leaving) [00:06] CrystalMath well nothing, Obama says that the fact that people live in information bubbles is a problem [00:06] CrystalMath but he also blames big tech for it [00:06] CrystalMath i don't see how [00:07] CrystalMath i mean, i hate big tech, but is QAnon their fault? no way [00:08] MinceR blaming objects for the faults of humans is a big thing in uhmerica [00:08] MinceR and also elsewhere on this planet [00:09] XRevan86 Well, there's no regulation that would solve "personalisation". Maybe something that stricten data collection on people, that would kill it off. [00:10] MinceR (cat) https://ircz.de/p/2008166 [00:10] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4826830) [00:10] XRevan86 * strictens [00:10] MinceR which is why i'd just personally kill evildoers instead of screwing around with regulations :> [00:12] XRevan86 MinceR: Isn't that the same thing, except with executions as penalty? [00:12] MinceR no, i'd do it without a state [00:12] MinceR states have failed, it's time to stop forcing them [00:12] XRevan86 mother anarchy, got it [00:13] CrystalMath XRevan86: you want to strengthen surveillance? [00:14] XRevan86 CrystalMath: The opposite. I think anti-surveillance regulation can fix the bubble effect %). [00:14] XRevan86 but it's also something they won't be willing to do [00:14] CrystalMath that won't stop people going to 4chan [00:15] CrystalMath and talking about the latest UFO Obamanton landed from to kidnap children and make cigarettes out of them [00:15] *inky (~inky@141.136.76.178) has joined #techrights [00:16] CrystalMath (that's a joking reference to pizzagate :P) [00:16] CrystalMath (as well as other conspiracies) [00:16] XRevan86 CrystalMath: Yea, but if someone goes to 4chan then they kind of know what kind of rabbit hole they're diving into. [00:18] XRevan86 I can't believe I managed to write it in such an ugly way but still technically correctly. [00:23] *TechrightsBot-tr has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [00:54] *mmu_man has quit (Quit: reboot) ● Nov 18 [01:09] *TechrightsBot-tr (~TR@199.19.78.19) has joined #techrights [01:09] TechrightsBot-tr Hello World! I'm TechrightsBot-tr running phIRCe v0.77 [01:11] oiaohm CrystalMath: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/03/australian-and-nz-isps-blocked-dozens-of-sites-that-host-nz-shooting-video/ This is where things get tricky. [01:11] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-arstechnica.com | 4chan, 8chan blocked by Australian and NZ ISPs for hosting shooting video | Ars Technica [01:14] oiaohm There is a legal responsibility on those providing content in most countries that is in the printed press or on free to air tv to be based on facts.. [01:15] oiaohm Of course with Australia carrier laws this does technically go to anyone hosting stuff in Australia on ISPs as well. [01:16] oiaohm The reality is as the laws of most countries catch up with the internet places like 4chan will either go away or have todo some level of content moderation. [01:16] CrystalMath that would be bad [01:16] *zoobab has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [01:16] oiaohm There are a lot of things you are not allowed todo in public spaces. [01:17] CrystalMath also 4chan does have moderation [01:17] oiaohm And if the courts rule the internet to be a public space there will be quite a bit of restriction. [01:17] oiaohm when 4chan started it did not have that much modernation. Its been growing it as the laws catching up. [01:18] CrystalMath well the big problem is pedophilia, which had to be eliminated from 4chan [01:18] *mmu_man (~revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #techrights [01:18] CrystalMath understandably [01:18] oiaohm That was they eliminate it or be totally blocked everywhere. [01:19] oiaohm But that was really the start of law forced moderation. [01:19] oiaohm There are other things other than pedophilia that the laws most countries say you cannot be doing either. [01:19] CrystalMath of course, however [01:19] oiaohm Still need to be moderated out. [01:20] CrystalMath the problem will be when governments start abusing this [01:20] CrystalMath to silence criticism and stuff [01:20] CrystalMath which is why we must fight for free speech [01:20] oiaohm There is risk of government abuse I do agree. [01:20] CrystalMath actually, the risk to free speech is the greatest risk to democracy [01:21] oiaohm But there are things like videod murder and other horrible things that need to be restricted. This includes people providing fake cures and other horrible things that cause deaths. [01:21] oiaohm The problem is the blance. [01:21] CrystalMath i would disagree with protecting people from themselves [01:21] oiaohm There is a list of things that need to be moderated out of existance because they are not safe/good for anyone. [01:22] CrystalMath a person's will should be manipulated with information [01:22] oiaohm Problem is false information and correct information can manipulate a person equally. [01:23] CrystalMath well, that's true [01:23] CrystalMath but many things are also not clearly true / false [01:24] oiaohm There is also the problem of desensitisation. Like with the process of desensitisation you can make it easier to kill. This is why some image times on tv are mandated sensored by law. [01:24] CrystalMath there's also the problem of people being overly sensitive [01:24] CrystalMath which is a huge problem nowadays [01:25] oiaohm There is also the reverse as well. [01:25] CrystalMath only for some things [01:26] oiaohm Its sensitivity is a balance. We don't want people mega sensitive to stuff and we don't want them totally insesistive to differenet bad stuff. [01:26] CrystalMath i'd say people are really densitized to pornographic stuff, but also too sensitive to criticism and different opinions [01:27] CrystalMath *desensitized [01:28] oiaohm Some of the pornographic densitized links to people ignoring domestic volicence events that have lead to death. [01:28] CrystalMath maybe? i'm not sure what the link is though [01:28] CrystalMath i'd rather focus on exposing people to different opinions [01:28] CrystalMath having them think for themselves [01:29] CrystalMath be more philosophical [01:29] CrystalMath not just listen to others [01:29] MinceR we could prevent people from being desensitized to anything by removing their sensory organs [01:29] oiaohm Having different options is not that useful either. Remember you have people arguing points like flat earth that really basic tests prove as false. [01:30] CrystalMath oiaohm: so what? [01:30] CrystalMath i know a flat earth theorists [01:30] CrystalMath *theorist [01:30] oiaohm Then you have people doing the same things with medical stuff. [01:30] oiaohm That is just as simple to disprove. [01:30] CrystalMath and i don't really mind his opinion, even if i disagree [01:30] CrystalMath that's the point [01:30] CrystalMath i think you need to learn this as well [01:31] CrystalMath the fact that it's simple to disprove means that most people will believe the truth [01:31] CrystalMath but a certain % will be dumb or contrarian [01:31] CrystalMath there's also things like religion [01:31] oiaohm And that % of dumb could come the president of the USA. [01:32] CrystalMath oiaohm: how, if it's a small number? [01:32] MinceR looks like that % is close to 50 [01:32] oiaohm Trump believes a stack of stuff known to be 100 percent false. [01:32] CrystalMath like what? [01:33] MinceR like that vaccines don't work but instead cause autism [01:33] CrystalMath he doesn't actually believe in injecting bleach or light, he just asked a silly question [01:33] MinceR or like that finland is part of russia [01:33] CrystalMath what? [01:33] CrystalMath when did he say that? [01:33] MinceR no, he let his idiocy slip [01:33] MinceR and later he tried to claim it was a joke [01:33] MinceR no one laughed [01:33] oiaohm CrystalMath: he pushed a drug that all the results said did not work. [01:33] oiaohm Not much different to inject bleach really. [01:33] CrystalMath oiaohm: i'm quite sure someone else told him about hydroxychloroquine [01:33] *mmu_man has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [01:33] CrystalMath it didn't come from him [01:34] MinceR well if someone else says it, it's got to be true [01:34] MinceR like the Earth being flat, for example [01:34] oiaohm So CrystalMath he had a idiot feeding him invalid information and he was running with it right. [01:34] oiaohm This is the problem with false information. [01:35] CrystalMath it probably came from a doctor [01:35] MinceR the problem is not with false information but with stupid people [01:35] CrystalMath one of the so-called experts [01:35] MinceR well, they hand doctorates out to just about anyone nowadays [01:36] oiaohm Again doctor who has been bribed to provide false information. [01:36] CrystalMath there are also papers about hydroxychloroquine providing some protection against viruses [01:36] oiaohm No proper peer review of information. [01:36] MinceR there's an alleged physician who acts as the speaker for the nazi government of hungary in COVID-19-related matters who said things like "masks don't protect you from the virus" and "you can't stop the pandemic with testing" [01:36] CrystalMath not in the case of SARS-CoV-2 [01:36] oiaohm All those papers after proper peer review have turned out to be false. [01:36] MinceR there's another nazi in hungary who has a medical doctorate who claimed that people get ill because they violate the ten commandments [01:37] CrystalMath oiaohm: are you sure? [01:37] oiaohm hydrooxychloroquine does not work against viruses at all with proper reviewed studies. [01:37] CrystalMath oiaohm: because malaria's entry into cells is very similar to a virus's [01:37] CrystalMath for example, both malaria and influenzavirus bind to hemagluttinin [01:37] CrystalMath SARS-CoV-2 is different as it binds to ACE2 [01:37] MinceR (that second nazi i mentioned is a minister, though he sucks so hard at his job even his own government started working around him) [01:38] CrystalMath influenzavirus can also bind to neuraminidase [01:38] oiaohm hydrooxychloroquine in fact works against malaria itself. Not the redblood cells. [01:38] CrystalMath there are other coronaviruses that bind to N-acetyl-neuraminic acid receptors (NANAR) [01:39] oiaohm All the proper studides hydrooxychloroquine just does not work at all with a virus case increases risk of deaht. [01:39] CrystalMath it's possible that there's a risk [01:41] oiaohm One of the catches with hydrooxychloroquine is that is used to treat autoimmune diseases. So in case of virus infection you need immune system to work better. hydrooxychloroquine is the exact other direction. [01:41] CrystalMath well, there's also immune overreaction [01:41] superkuh Binding to ace2 is just the start, then extracellular proteases cleave the spike protein and the hydrophobic region that acts as an anchor for membrane fusion comes into play. [01:42] superkuh Get too much of that going on and you get not only viral membranes fusing, but cells fusing. [01:42] superkuh And that leads to chronic inflammation. [01:44] oiaohm CrystalMath: there are a few different ways to treat immune over reaction. hydrooxychloroquine reduces anti-bodies in general way. So you reduce the immune over reaction but you also reduce the immune system means to stop the virus so the virus goes on to kill more cells. [01:45] oiaohm Autoimmune disease crippling the immune system because you have no better treatment can be fine while the person does not have any other infection. [01:46] oiaohm When in infected with a virus any 100% immune system crippling path is not right. [01:49] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Firefox 84 Promises to Finally Enable WebRender By Default on Linux/X11 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144477 [https://pleroma.site/objects/fcc0a089-d777-4c54-b301-5b7dd393a619] [01:49] CrystalMath sorry i was reading about the syncitial pneumocytes from COVID-19 [01:49] CrystalMath *syncytial [01:49] oiaohm CrystalMath: It is believed that hydroxychloroquine interferes with the communication of cells in the immune system. << This is what the studies appear to show hydrooxychloroquine doing. This is a immune system communication disruption. [01:50] oiaohm Basically able to stall out the immune system from fighting back at all. [01:50] CrystalMath likely SARS-CoV-1 is the same [01:51] CrystalMath anyway i think it's clear to everyone at this point that hydroxychloroquine is not a cure [01:52] oiaohm and its not a treatment either. [01:52] oiaohm because it adjust totally the wrong thing. [01:53] oiaohm The fact it was known to adjust totally the wrong thing was documented before the Covid-19 with athrisis people being on hydroxychloroquine having higher risks of getting the common cold and having adverise effects. [01:54] oiaohm What happens when fake information not backed by proper data gets into the system. [01:54] CrystalMath in the end, it was not Trump who gave people this drug, but doctors in hospitals [01:54] CrystalMath sometimes the entire world can be deceived, even [01:55] oiaohm Its never normally the entire world. [01:55] oiaohm But a large enough can be to cause extra deaths. [01:56] CrystalMath and don't forget this was a new virus back in march [01:56] CrystalMath people were desperate [01:56] CrystalMath they wanted to try anything [01:56] oiaohm Exactly the dangerous problem with false information getting out. [01:56] CrystalMath but we didn't really know for sure that it's false [01:57] oiaohm When humans are desperate they don't make best choices. [01:57] CrystalMath desperate situations happen [01:57] CrystalMath it's no use to judge from hindsight [01:57] oiaohm Australia blocked hydroxychloroquine studies here before it was given to anyone. [01:57] oiaohm Because of the requirement of proper peer review information. [01:57] CrystalMath ah [01:58] CrystalMath well, that's being really careful [01:58] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #OpenInventionNetwork Turns 15 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144478 [https://pleroma.site/objects/8ae7ed16-b0ce-4ecc-afb2-1c05a395c85d] [01:58] CrystalMath in other scenarios that can be bad too [01:58] oiaohm More often than not its bad not to be careful. [01:58] oiaohm Is a rare scenario with medical where that level of careful does not work. [01:59] CrystalMath well against ebola many experimental drugs were given [01:59] CrystalMath out of desperation [01:59] CrystalMath and there was one that had some success ● Nov 18 [02:00] oiaohm Lot did pass peer review of being possible with the ebola tests. [02:00] oiaohm Possible and working are totally different things. [02:00] oiaohm The one that had some success with ebola did pass peer review to be possible before any usage. [02:01] oiaohm every one in the ebola experimental drugs that did not pass peer review totally failed. [02:02] CrystalMath either way i think we went way off topic [02:02] CrystalMath i still stand by freedom of speech [02:03] oiaohm There is a handful of rare exceptions Lorenzo's Oil case where peer review says is dangerous. Yet it was the right treatment. These are rare and due to the risk you want to start with a single test subject. [02:04] oiaohm When I say handful over the complete human medicial history there are 4 cases. [02:05] oiaohm The odds of you being right doing something not peer reviewed as possible is almost zero with medicial. [02:05] oiaohm Same with construction and many other fields. [02:07] oiaohm CrystalMath: freedom of speech is one thing false representation is another. You can say anything and state that you have no evidence that its true and should not be used as true without more tests as in a untested theory. [02:08] oiaohm Problem is you get a lot of people making stuff out as absolutely true that is without question false and this does kill people. [02:09] oiaohm Free-speech should not be without a duty of care on your part. [02:09] CrystalMath oiaohm: well the more you prevent people from thinking, the stupider they will be [02:09] CrystalMath it will just increase the problem [02:09] CrystalMath people need to be forced to think for themselves [02:09] CrystalMath and the only way is to let them get burned when they do something dumb [02:09] oiaohm Does not work that way. [02:09] CrystalMath like that flat earth guy who spent $30,000 building a gyroscope to prove the earth doesn't rotate [02:10] CrystalMath and.... his results were that it does in fact rotate [02:10] CrystalMath oops :P [02:11] CrystalMath it's absolutely impossible to protect people from stupidity [02:11] oiaohm One way a human avoids thinking for themselves is seeing something written as fact(does not have to be fact that is big problem) [02:11] *zoobab (zoobab@vic.ffii.org) has joined #techrights [02:12] CrystalMath because, stupidity is precisely cured by people not being protected [02:12] CrystalMath not being sheltered [02:12] CrystalMath the more people dumb things down, the dumber people get [02:12] CrystalMath "make something idiot-proof, and nature will build a better idiot" [02:12] oiaohm No stupidity of humans has been the same over 2000 years as lot of these levels of stupid mistakes with documented saying something was true was false is documented in early china documents. [02:13] oiaohm Best protection against this stupidity is regulation against writing unproven theories as fact. [02:13] CrystalMath i think people should decide what the facts are themselves [02:14] CrystalMath and not be told [02:14] CrystalMath what the facts are [02:14] oiaohm If something is written as a unproven theory human nature kicks in to test it. [02:14] oiaohm Us humans like it or not we have a nature in the way our logic works. [02:14] CrystalMath if someone wants to believe tiny gnomes make computers work, that is not my problem [02:15] CrystalMath if someone wants to make a church of tinygnomism, that's not my problem either [02:15] oiaohm If they want to believe it as a person unproven theory that is fine. [02:15] CrystalMath it only becomes a problem when i am forced to acknowledge the tiny gnomes [02:15] oiaohm If they want to step out and say tiny gnomes are fact how computer work that is problem. [02:15] CrystalMath i don't think it's a problem for me [02:15] CrystalMath it's a problem for them [02:16] CrystalMath because they're wrong [02:16] oiaohm Think the trump chain of failure. [02:16] CrystalMath why are you obsessed with Trump? [02:16] CrystalMath as i said, he did a lot of great things [02:16] oiaohm Its just the most recent example. [02:16] CrystalMath he was a great mediator between Serbia and Kosovo [02:17] CrystalMath he made the US energy independent [02:17] *zoobab has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [02:17] CrystalMath for the first time since 1957 [02:17] CrystalMath he reduced unemployment by a lot [02:17] CrystalMath it's extremely arrogant of you to believe that only dumb people voted for Trump [02:17] CrystalMath or that only uneducated / unscientific people voted for Trump [02:17] schestowitz lol [02:18] *zoobab (zoobab@vic.ffii.org) has joined #techrights [02:18] schestowitz the US has an unemployment crisis [02:18] CrystalMath i would have totally picked Trump over Hillary [02:18] CrystalMath schestowitz: it didn't in 2019 [02:18] schestowitz and they barely even count the unemployed [02:18] CrystalMath :P [02:18] schestowitz they stop counting people [02:18] schestowitz the real unemployment climbs [02:18] schestowitz they count only those still pursuing work [02:18] schestowitz not those who just gave up [02:19] schestowitz you deem yourself a sceptical thinker [02:19] schestowitz when it comes to Trump, however, you're like a 'religion;' [02:19] schestowitz repeating cult45 talking points [02:19] schestowitz about how he's not doing wars [02:19] schestowitz when he drops bombs more than anyone [02:19] schestowitz and the economy is in pieces [02:19] schestowitz the rich got richer, as usual [02:19] schestowitz and faster [02:19] CrystalMath sure he failed in many things [02:20] CrystalMath but is he really as bad as they say? [02:20] schestowitz anyway, I'm off [02:20] schestowitz no need to argue this [02:20] schestowitz look those things up [02:20] schestowitz not in corporate media [02:20] schestowitz it's owned by those rich [02:20] schestowitz Trump gave them what they wanted [02:20] oiaohm CrystalMath: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/09/05/trump-obama-economy/ Trump really did not reduce unemployment at the same rate obama was. [02:20] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.washingtonpost.com | The Trump economy versus the Obama economy in 16 charts - The Washington Post [02:21] oiaohm Lot of things for Trump was what Obama setup before him going in the right direction. [02:21] oiaohm Trump managed to slow most of that progress down. [02:21] oiaohm CrystalMath: when you look at the number Trump really did not do that good even removing covid-19. [02:23] oiaohm One thing trump has given the USA is more Debt to pay back in future. [02:25] schestowitz https://www.usdebtclock.org/ [02:25] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.usdebtclock.org | U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time [02:25] oiaohm CrystalMath: lot of ways claiming unscientific back trump is fairly much true. As they make a lot of statements that are not in fact backed by the numbers on what happened. [02:26] CrystalMath we know about Trump and covid [02:26] CrystalMath the mainstream media don't let us forget, either [02:31] DaemonFC[m] Yeah, the Chromium snap isn't too bad. [02:31] DaemonFC[m] I'm warming up to the idea of snaps on my system. [02:33] XRevan86 snaps are a literal opposite of reproducible builds [02:34] XRevan86 Apparently Chromium is hard to build even once. Great software, love it. [02:35] XRevan86 DaemonFC[m]: Linux Mint has dedicated a server for Chromium building as a .deb, so you could use that. [02:46] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Open Source Program Office at Google Versus Daniel Pocock http://techrights.org/2020/11/17/google-versus-daniel-pocock/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/756c905f-a935-4173-8b12-dae93676ee6d] [02:52] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Why Companies Can Benefit From Open Source http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144479 [https://pleroma.site/objects/34a8e9d1-b058-40de-9b3b-826e7fdd81f8] [02:53] DaemonFC[m] Yeah, they're basically a fake distribution on top of Ubuntu. [02:53] DaemonFC[m] So it would be compatible. [02:56] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: On Laptops: Thoughts On Using CentOS, Ubuntu LTS, and Fedora http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144480 [https://pleroma.site/objects/ae924af6-81d6-41d8-a088-df3ba3d99726] ● Nov 18 [03:02] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Todays #HowTos | #UNIX http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144481 [https://pleroma.site/objects/69e9bc52-0597-4b61-a69d-425a309d8cf1] [03:09] schestowitz [02:53] Yeah, they're basically a fake distribution on top of Ubuntu. [03:09] schestowitz [Yeah, Ubuntu is basically a fake distribution on top of Debian. [03:09] schestowitz welcome to gnu/linux [03:09] schestowitz it helps if you know how it works [03:09] schestowitz go to /etc/version or debian_release [03:09] schestowitz and remind yourself how Ubuntu is made [03:21] schestowitz > You know, if you look at all the efforts (your slated.org friend used to [03:21] schestowitz > write about them all the time) to control how people talk to each other [03:21] schestowitz > in software-related communities, what is now called "bigotry" really did [03:21] schestowitz > put companies first. [03:21] schestowitz > [03:21] schestowitz > They were making a bigger deal out of putting a dollar sign in [03:21] schestowitz > "Microsoft" years before they had a problem with "master/slave" or [03:21] schestowitz > "blacklist". [03:21] schestowitz > [03:21] schestowitz > Which ought to show reasonable people what the real intent is here. You [03:21] schestowitz > need to hijack a legitimate cause, if you want your bullshit cause to go [03:21] schestowitz > even farther. They really did set out originally to protect monopolies [03:21] schestowitz > from criticism. Years later they bolted on protecting coders from [03:21] schestowitz > standard tech industry terminology. How can anybody think that's a mark [03:21] schestowitz > of sincerity? It's the essence of propaganda-- not to solve bigotry, but [03:21] schestowitz > to conflate protesting a bad corporation with bigotry. But it's not just [03:21] schestowitz > shameless and cynical and sometimes obviously-- it's even supported by a [03:21] schestowitz > casual look at the history. [03:36] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Devices/Embedded: Pantera Pico PC, Pi, NAS and More http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144482 [https://pleroma.site/objects/ae44de7d-090c-41f8-9dee-5f9cf2c2575a] [03:52] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: First two i.MX8M Plus SMARC modules break cover http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144483 [https://pleroma.site/objects/52fef064-21e4-4497-8f85-5d878e286f35] [03:59] DaemonFC[m] Ubuntu isn't Debian. ● Nov 18 [04:00] DaemonFC[m] They actually seem to care about if people can figure out how to install and configure it, for starters. [04:00] DaemonFC[m] It pretty much just works as a desktop role. [04:00] DaemonFC[m] I haven't bothered with Debian since a brief encounter with Debian 6 though. [04:01] DaemonFC[m] Besides, they pulled in MinceR's favorite init and service management framework in the whole wide world. [04:01] DaemonFC[m] I happen to think that they should have rejected it and brought in Upstart. [04:02] schestowitz [03:59] Ubuntu isn't Debian. [04:02] schestowitz duh [04:02] DaemonFC[m] But like MinceR, my opinion and a dollar will get you a cup of McDonald's coffee. [04:02] schestowitz and mint is not Ubuntu [04:02] DaemonFC[m] Mint uses the same binaries. [04:03] DaemonFC[m] They don't even bother to scrub the references to Ubuntu from them. [04:03] DaemonFC[m] If you use Cinnamon on Ubuntu it's pretty much the same thing without the security update delays introduced by Mint. [04:07] DaemonFC[m] In some cases, Ubuntu doesn't remove Debian fluff from everything, but they do compile the system themselves and they update it more often. There's a better installer with better defaults. They don't support a lot of questionable architectures, diluting QA. Then there's the whole PPA and Snap thing. [04:08] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Firefox 84 Beta Begins Enabling WebRender By Default On Linux http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144477#comment-27175 [https://pleroma.site/objects/c18cc0e1-9305-4dd2-b85c-370769ce7542] [04:08] DaemonFC[m] To be honest, PPA and Snap are a good addition to Kubuntu as well, because if Debian doesn't have it it's usually doubtful anyone has packaged it, so you can build it yourself or try pounding in an Ubuntu package that may or may not work. [04:10] DaemonFC[m] I just love going well shit, that program isn't there. Time to compile something. [04:11] DaemonFC[m] Debian warns PPAs will break Debian, but.... Debian hasn't come up with it's own solution. [04:11] DaemonFC[m] They have secret mailing lists for crying out loud. [04:12] DaemonFC[m] It seems Debian makes a better upstream for distributions than a distribution. [04:13] DaemonFC[m] And credit where it's due, it certainly would be worse if they didn't exist, and their package manager has improved greatly. [04:13] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Graphics: AMD and NVIDIA Latest http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144484 [https://pleroma.site/objects/889b6f7e-39ca-4c67-9f62-bed0cfa46287] [04:20] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: UP Xtreme i11 SBC runs pre-installed Ubuntu on Tiger Lake http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144485 [https://pleroma.site/objects/7d2b778e-1de6-43ba-8780-ad062636fc96] [04:21] oiaohm DaemonFC[m]: PPA also end up breaking Ubuntu. [04:21] oiaohm Ubuntu has not end up going the snap path for no reason. [04:34] schestowitz lockin [04:34] schestowitz and proprietary software push [04:34] schestowitz bad reasons [04:35] schestowitz same for IBM with flatprick [04:50] DaemonFC[m] Well, as Windows 10 once said..... [04:50] DaemonFC[m] Something happened something happened. [04:51] schestowitz I know what happened [04:52] schestowitz some developer happened to have forgotten to change the placeholder [04:52] schestowitz because Vista10 is spaghetti code [04:52] schestowitz and dying [04:52] schestowitz bar the bribes from Microsoft to OEMs and shops [04:52] schestowitz like... oh wait... where are Microsoft stores? [04:52] schestowitz All shut down [04:52] schestowitz the media didn't pay much attention [04:52] schestowitz nothing to see here, move along [04:53] schestowitz they merely 'modernise' [04:53] schestowitz with "online experience" [04:53] schestowitz and MSN staff being fired is "HEY HI" [04:55] oiaohm schestowitz: https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/store/locations/find-a-store the stores by Microsoft site are still meant to exist. [04:55] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Find a Microsoft Store Near Me - Microsoft Store [04:55] cubexyz is CSM still supported? [04:56] DaemonFC[m] https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-winpc/unable-to-upgrade-to-windows-10-something-happened/be12b76d-af02-46a1-a00c-4e4af0c29588 [04:56] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-answers.microsoft.com | Unable to Upgrade to Windows 10 - Something Happened error - Microsoft Community [04:56] *DaemonFC[m] uploaded an image: tenor_gif3594203459329216536.gif (24KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/oVVomsJZRtwYMDggGtDtTGrB/tenor_gif3594203459329216536.gif > [04:57] DaemonFC[m] "I found out that the taskbar moved from bottom of the screen to the left side caused issues with 2 of my upgrades. [04:57] DaemonFC[m] I upgraded 11 PCs and 2 of them show this "something happened" error message. Those 2 had the taskbar LOCKED to the left side of the screen. Remove the Lock and place it back to the bottom resolve the issue." [04:58] DaemonFC[m] Quality. [04:58] schestowitz :-) [04:58] schestowitz you pay for it? [04:58] DaemonFC[m] Whereby you can't upgrade because you moved the taskbar. [04:59] cubexyz btw I bought a Dell T3600 a while back, no slackware issues [04:59] cubexyz that's 2014 tech though ● Nov 18 [05:01] oiaohm cubexyz: CSM in UEFI I guess you mean. Intel has techically stopped providing support versions of that. [05:02] DaemonFC[m] It's nice to know that the people trolling Linux have their operating system upgrade fail with "something happened" because they moved the taskbar to the side of the screen, isn't it? [05:03] DaemonFC[m] mjg59 would probably say they should make it more difficult to get it in an unsupported state. Instead of fixing the bug, they could just make it impossible to move the taskbar anywhere where it will cause the upgrade program to fail. [05:04] DaemonFC[m] MinceR^ [05:04] oiaohm cubexyz: of course someone might decide to make like seabios as a loader on top of UEFI to bring CSM back. [05:04] cubexyz I'm still waiting for coreboot desktop motherboards you can just buy [05:05] DaemonFC[m] I think SeaBIOS should be part of any Coreboot system in case I want to run DOS. Because it's my computer and I should be able to boot it into Real Mode DOS in 2020 if I want to. [05:06] DaemonFC[m] mjg59 probably thinks that it's just fine to run firmware updates while a general purpose OS (including one like Windows that could suicide bomb itself any second for no reason at all) is running. So why would you ever need DOS? [05:06] DaemonFC[m] After all, we should make it hard to get it into an unsupported state where the flash has a 99.9999% chance of going well. [05:06] cubexyz you could want to run a real mode OS yes [05:06] cubexyz not common but possible [05:07] DaemonFC[m] I don't see any reason why DOS should have fallen by the wayside, really. [05:07] oiaohm DaemonFC[m]: https://www.coreboot.org/Payloads coreboot has 3 different bios implementations all able to run dos. seabios, openbios and Open Firmware [05:07] cubexyz ISA cards, again rare but there are still a few people using them [05:07] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.coreboot.org | Payloads - coreboot [05:07] DaemonFC[m] DOS extenders could do anything. So, the user could just use DOS as a base of operations to do whatever they wanted, including load Linux. [05:08] DaemonFC[m] Things got infinitely worse when Windows became commonly accepted. [05:08] DaemonFC[m] System requirements soared, just so you could click on things. [05:09] cubexyz that's why I wrote the foss matrix [05:09] DaemonFC[m] DOS wasn't particularly unstable, but Windows 98 crashed at least a few times per day. [05:09] cubexyz http://www.maxhost.org/other/foss-matrix.txt [05:09] oiaohm Dos does have some major problems. [05:09] oiaohm So does bios. [05:10] DaemonFC[m] Windows 2000 was the only version I had any serious uptime with. [05:10] oiaohm Bios was not really designed for 4k sector harddrives. Dos is absolutely not designed for 4k sector harddrives. [05:10] cubexyz oiaohm, is not that we think msdos is great [05:10] DaemonFC[m] To the point that I downgraded some XP systems just because it ran like shit and was less stable. [05:10] cubexyz we just want to run anything we want as an OS [05:10] oiaohm freedos runs into real trouble at 2tb harddrives. [05:10] cubexyz AROS, or even our own custom OS [05:11] DaemonFC[m] I set up my last Legacy BIOS system with BIOS-GPT. [05:11] DaemonFC[m] The specification was much nicer than uEFI, on balance. [05:12] cubexyz mostly for old msdos games I can use scummvm [05:12] cubexyz or wine for old windows games [05:12] oiaohm Most old dos games dosbox is best choice because modern hardware is too fast. [05:12] DaemonFC[m] You could hack around BIOS partitioning limits easily in a way that the user would never need to think about again. [05:12] oiaohm so you need emulation to slow it down. [05:13] DaemonFC[m] So it wasn't really that big of a deal. [05:13] oiaohm Until you have a 10TB harddrive. [05:13] DaemonFC[m] What happens then? [05:14] cubexyz oiaohm, I have rather a lot of old PC clunkers anyways [05:14] oiaohm The 10TB drives are 4K drives that really don't like 512 emulation. [05:14] oiaohm So they stall out to hell with a 512 write pattern. [05:15] DaemonFC[m] Well, nobody should like 512 emulation. [05:15] oiaohm 512 is 512 sector operations. [05:15] DaemonFC[m] It was put into place because Microsoft didn't want to bother updating older versions of Windows. [05:15] oiaohm Yes old bios also use that for reading the bootloaders. [05:15] oiaohm 4k drives expect you to ask for 4k not 512. [05:16] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GTK, GNOME, and GNOME Foundation http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144486 [https://pleroma.site/objects/c58a9939-ff93-46f8-afed-2f8f22552156] [05:16] DaemonFC[m] Can they do both? I'm not sure about that. [05:16] DaemonFC[m] Shouldn't affect anything if you were only using it to get the system to POST and then the OS knew what 4k was. [05:17] oiaohm That the catch when you get to 10TB and past harddrives are design for 4K. [05:17] oiaohm Quite a few of them cannot do both. [05:18] oiaohm There is a transition window from 512 bytes per sector to 4K per sector in harddrives. [05:18] oiaohm This same transition window will appear in solid state storage as well. [05:19] oiaohm the old bios/dos due to hardware changes is very much coming I must be run in emulation. [05:19] DaemonFC[m] oiaohm: So, is this my imagination or not? Change of subject btw. [05:19] DaemonFC[m] My sinuses are terrible, and I went and bought two air purifiers, and now my sinuses are totally clear. [05:20] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: Microsoft Controller on Linux, Humble Sweet Farm Fall Bundle and Raft http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144487 [https://pleroma.site/objects/e6212d12-bf81-4605-abff-68cd77b5e2d4] [05:20] DaemonFC[m] I figure it must be the air purifiers. I'm trying to think what I've been allergic to all the time that's been in every single house. [05:21] DaemonFC[m] I even had sinus surgery at one point and it didn't really help so much as I ended up in the hospital for a month because I picked up an infection in the operating room. [05:21] cubexyz some mold spores are bad [05:21] oiaohm DaemonFC[m]: I do not have a good answer for that. [05:22] DaemonFC[m] This is something called an iFD filter. [05:22] oiaohm It could be something in house or that you simply had a long term infection. [05:22] DaemonFC[m] I just went ahead and stocked up on the carbon prefilter things. [05:22] DaemonFC[m] Amazon had a bunch of warehouse deal specials on them. [05:22] oiaohm Reducing general contimination around you for a while can allow body to get ahead of a long term sinuses infection. [05:22] DaemonFC[m] They're disposable but are supposed to do a better job than the washable prefilter. [05:23] DaemonFC[m] Oh I have sinus infections constantly. [05:23] oiaohm DaemonFC[m]: so you might have been alergic to something or had a long term mild sinus infection. [05:23] DaemonFC[m] About every year or two they get so bad I have to go on amoxicillin again. [05:24] oiaohm There is a chance that you were never rid of them. [05:24] oiaohm You body has to always been dealing with a level of contaimination around you. [05:25] oiaohm That changes up and down. [05:25] cubexyz like a room full of laserprints... [05:25] cubexyz laserprinters [05:25] oiaohm Now long term sinus infection reduces you means to cope with that. [05:26] oiaohm Of course you can hide a long term sinus infection by like going into a clean room. [05:26] oiaohm Doing harddrive repairs in the like working in clean rooms something we were told to check for was sinus infections. [05:26] oiaohm because while working in clean room you could appear totally fine. [05:27] oiaohm Step out side basically be dead person. [05:27] oiaohm Did not have to be anything your were alergic to. [05:31] oiaohm DaemonFC[m]: https://medlineplus.gov/lab-tests/allergy-blood-test/ Allergy there is in fact a blood test. If you have a sinus infections and your doctor has been doing their job they should have done the allergy blood test. [05:31] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-medlineplus.gov | Allergy Blood Test: MedlinePlus Medical Test [05:31] DaemonFC[m] https://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-AirGenius-Cleaner-Odor-Reducer/dp/B009P7SVHS [05:31] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Amazon.com: Honeywell AirGenius Air Purifier, 1-Pack, Black: Home & Kitchen [05:31] oiaohm That tells if it just infection or allergy. [05:32] DaemonFC[m] I put an AirGenius 5 in the living room and liked it so much I put a 4 in the bedroom. After I figured out that the 4 is basically the same thing with buttons instead of a touchscreen. ($20 cheaper.) [05:33] oiaohm Yes that blood test can be used to tell what you have done has removed what you are allergic to. [05:33] DaemonFC[m] Part of it could be the cats, I guess. [05:33] oiaohm Big thing have you ever had the allergy blood test. [05:33] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security: Patching and New Kinds of Threats http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144488 [https://pleroma.site/objects/91e72013-fd29-4e4c-9f05-a0c4bed6a97f] [05:33] oiaohm That something you need to check. [05:34] oiaohm There are many different infections that can cause sinus trouble that can come from cats. [05:35] oiaohm DaemonFC[m]: fun part with sinus trouble is working out is it infection or is it allergy. [05:35] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: New Release Candidate of NuTyX 12 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144489 [https://pleroma.site/objects/5a0483f6-c504-4293-aac2-dea039ec0c6b] [05:35] oiaohm Or if it both. [05:36] oiaohm Before blood tests it was insane guess work. [05:38] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: UP Xtreme i11 Tiger Lake SBC and mini PC to ship with Ubuntu 20.04 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144485#comment-27176 [https://pleroma.site/objects/adbf2e7e-0a86-4da5-8fff-38c4d3f273c5] [05:48] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Screencasts/Audiocasts/Shows: Amarok Linux 2.1.1, mintCast and LINUX Unplugged http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144490 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b74bb90f-a26d-455a-a535-7e6c0381d863] ● Nov 18 [06:21] *Blukunfando has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [06:34] *GNUmoon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [06:36] oiaohm https://youtube-dl.org/ Just notice youtube-dl repo is back. [06:36] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-youtube-dl.org | youtube-dl [06:47] CrystalMath yep [06:47] CrystalMath i posted a link to the news of that [06:47] CrystalMath yesterday [06:50] oiaohm Interesting that it was attack in Germany as well. ● Nov 18 [07:20] *gde34 (~gde333@84-106-154-98.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) has joined #techrights [07:20] *gde33 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [07:20] *gde34 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [07:21] *gde34 (~gde333@84-106-154-98.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) has joined #techrights ● Nov 18 [08:19] *notanamber (~luca@2001:b07:a16:5bc0:bd01:a12:47e2:5907) has joined #techrights [08:19] *CrystalMath has quit (Quit: May we live long and die out | http://vhemt.org/) [08:58] schestowitz https://twitter.com/michaelgraaf/status/1328923342359977984 [08:58] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@michaelgraaf: For those who think Microsoft buying Github was just business...https://t.co/WiFJjojR41 [08:58] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights- ( status 500 @ https://techrights.org/2020/06/15/confessions-of-scott-guthrie/ ) [08:59] *Condor (~freenode@e1.nixmagic.com) has joined #techrights ● Nov 18 [09:03] *chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc01:200:655e:ef87:f909:8731) has joined #techrights [09:17] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The 10 Best Linux Anti-Spam Tools and Software in 2020 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144491 [https://pleroma.site/objects/0dab829a-e1cf-47f6-9683-cf6e58acf583] [09:19] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux Lite An Easy to Use Free and Fast Linux Distro http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144492 [https://pleroma.site/objects/7b4fb5c9-882e-4909-bed9-8bb6eccaeb36] [09:23] schestowitz https://fair.org/home/new-yorks-chait-boosts-charter-schools-but-no-longer-mentions-spouses-policy-role-in-charter-school-industry/ [09:23] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-fair.org | New Yorks Chait Boosts Charter Schoolsbut No Longer Mentions Spouses Policy Role in Charter School Industry FAIR [09:31] vZS1 schestowitz: writing an RSS 2.0 library from scratch. Can share with you after I'm done. [09:31] *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights [09:33] schestowitz cool [09:33] schestowitz btw, I regenerated the bulletin [09:33] schestowitz and it was copied across, overwriting the previous files [09:33] schestowitz not sure if that'll make a new hash first time update is run [09:33] vZS1 Wait [09:34] vZS1 Did you change the index format? [09:34] vZS1 If the index format is the same, it shouldn't matter [09:35] vZS1 Because my bot looks for any difference in old and new index. If there's a difference, it copies the whole new index from the source [09:36] schestowitz so it might do that [09:36] schestowitz index format the same [09:36] vZS1 Yeah. Then it's fine [09:36] schestowitz but the file had two articles added to it [09:36] schestowitz posted past midnight [09:36] schestowitz today we'll do more EPO disclosures of documents [09:36] vZS1 The bot sequentially processes each CID [09:37] vZS1 So it won't miss new things in the middle [09:37] vZS1 I designed it like this intentionally. To be robust. (: [09:38] vZS1 So as long as the index format is the same, you can modify the index however you want [09:47] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Proprietary Issues and Linux Foundation Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144493 [https://pleroma.site/objects/4630955b-88b6-4987-a103-e250b7f63a7b] [09:49] vZS1 I'm basically building everything from scratch. The nice thing is I can keep things lean this way. And slapping AGPLv3 on everything. [09:49] vZS1 The other stuff I depend on is all GPL or compatible as well [09:50] vZS1 HTTP server, RSS library, IPFS index management, even thinking of rolling a minimal IRC server. [09:50] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Programming Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144494 [https://pleroma.site/objects/f0167e2f-25cd-499a-973a-9b76ffc0240b] [09:51] vZS1 The alternatives are all way too much bloat [09:52] vZS1 I'm mercilessly cutting out everything unnecessary [09:52] vZS1 Because the whole idea is to offload everything possible to IPFS [09:53] vZS1 So stuff like Apache, Nginx, etc are all bloat. [09:55] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Debian and Ubuntu Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144495 [https://pleroma.site/objects/aef09096-f0d5-4d24-bbfa-6c6db7e5801b] [09:56] vZS1 So far, everything is fitting on my Pi with loads of resources to spare. The IPFS daemon is the heaviest component. And it'll stay that way. [09:57] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Red Hat/Fedora Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144496 [https://pleroma.site/objects/e33a15ea-c054-4b99-8f18-84212ac68ce2] ● Nov 18 [10:03] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Software: Botfather, SpeedCrunch, Tor Browser, Chrome 87, MongoDB, WordPress, GNOME Tweak Tool http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144497 [https://pleroma.site/objects/fad6fdab-85e0-4601-b69a-1c1779a3744c] [10:05] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Todays Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144498 [https://pleroma.site/objects/0195e6ee-a5e8-4f09-82b9-474826dbdf9b] [10:08] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 18/11/2020: SUSE IPO Rumours, Servo (GitHub-Trapped) Thrown at Linux Foundation http://techrights.org/2020/11/18/suse-ipo-rumours/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/c9ab53b2-333a-41e6-b8fc-a76dc985bb73] ● Nov 18 [11:17] *mmu_man (~revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #techrights [11:27] *chomwitt has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [11:47] *obarun has quit (Remote host closed the connection) ● Nov 18 [12:30] oiaohm vZS1: fun if you end up with a auto scaling http cluster. ● Nov 18 [13:15] *Blukunfando (~bkf@147.red-83-42-109.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) has joined #techrights [13:25] *Blukunfando has quit (Excess Flood) [13:30] *Blukunfando (~bkf@147.red-83-42-109.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) has joined #techrights [13:44] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Stars and Stripes: NASA and Linux http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144499 [https://pleroma.site/objects/2f1978b7-c55c-42e5-9ec9-ad9d17ebea12] [13:45] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144500 [https://pleroma.site/objects/df40af08-3340-4d76-bd60-35f4ed9d0a52] [13:57] schestowitz vZS1: [13:57] schestowitz Bandwidth [13:57] schestowitz TotalIn: 16 GB [13:57] schestowitz TotalOut: 6.2 GB [13:58] vZS1 I've lost track of mine because I keep changing things ● Nov 18 [14:01] schestowitz I spoke to someone about mine [14:01] schestowitz I might take it offline for a bit next month to assemble extensions [14:01] schestowitz lights, LEDs, keys [14:01] schestowitz I was sent several modules [14:02] schestowitz but need a soldering gun, which I can neither buy or borrow [14:02] schestowitz *nor [14:02] schestowitz the pi is fully backups up now to my laptop and external drive, so there are three copies [14:02] schestowitz in case we need to reassemble anything [14:02] schestowitz done enough EPO pubs for today [14:02] schestowitz will move on to gnu/linux/fs now [14:03] schestowitz I won't be back on shift (work) trill firday night [14:04] MinceR 18 045926 < DaemonFC[m]> Ubuntu isn't Debian. [14:04] MinceR ubunturd relies on deadian for all the hard work [14:05] MinceR they realized cancerd was shit but did nothing about it because it would have taken work [14:05] MinceR they also gave up on unity [14:05] MinceR and mir [14:06] MinceR 18 055851 < DaemonFC[m]> Whereby you can't upgrade because you moved the taskbar. [14:06] MinceR ah yes, the Year of Windows on the Desktop [14:06] MinceR there are parts of it that sometimes almost work! [14:07] MinceR no need to hurry, they've only released the first version 34 years ago. [14:07] schestowitz gnu? [14:07] schestowitz windows? [14:08] MinceR windows [14:09] MinceR they're working on infiltrating and fucking up GNU, but it isn't as bad as Backdoors yet [14:10] schestowitz I have two sides to me; [14:10] schestowitz the optimist [14:10] schestowitz and the pessimist [14:11] schestowitz mixing the two is reconcilable [14:11] schestowitz on the one hand, gnu is used a lot [14:11] schestowitz even on devices [14:11] schestowitz in HPC also, a LOT.. [14:11] schestowitz but media calls it "LINUX" [14:11] schestowitz but f the media [14:11] schestowitz it doesn't matter [14:11] schestowitz otho, we're being infiltrated [14:11] schestowitz and not just by Microsoft [14:11] schestowitz They all want a piece of the action, Google included [14:12] schestowitz so the GNU vision isn't playing out the way it was meant to... or foreseen/envisioned [14:12] schestowitz so we sort of try to correct the route [14:12] schestowitz and then they tell us to just use GNU as WSL [14:12] schestowitz basically to buy a Vista10 machines with back doors and spying ('telemetry') [14:12] schestowitz and that this is "love" [14:12] schestowitz so we can recognise progress made [14:13] schestowitz by some perturbed standard [14:13] schestowitz and try to adjust that to what we want it to be [14:13] schestowitz recognising that there won't be exactly what we wanted [14:13] schestowitz like community distros dominating [14:13] schestowitz Amazon also has its own distro now [14:13] smnthermes > [01:03:46] DaemonFC[m]: If you use Cinnamon on Ubuntu it's pretty much the same thing without the security update delays introduced by Mint. [14:13] smnthermes Examples? [14:17] schestowitz concern-trolling [14:17] schestowitz imho [14:17] schestowitz Mint is doing no worse than most [14:17] schestowitz and when very severe bugs exist the fixes come downstream to mint fast [14:17] schestowitz and they're binary-compatible afiak [14:18] MinceR yeah, it's just another pointless systemd/Linux distro [14:18] schestowitz usually kernel-level things or some micropackage [14:18] schestowitz like some "lib" part of something else [14:18] schestowitz like libxml [14:18] schestowitz MinceR: does systemd replace linux? [14:18] schestowitz or gnu? [14:18] schestowitz usually utils connected to both [14:19] schestowitz so you could say systemd/glinux [14:19] schestowitz device drivers=linux [14:19] schestowitz gnu for programs [14:19] schestowitz systemd for network management, services etc. [14:19] schestowitz then stuff on top [14:19] schestowitz maybe wayland will become part of systemd ;-) [14:20] schestowitz then lvfs [14:20] schestowitz then a systemd Universal Desktop Environment [14:20] schestowitz With systemDoffice [14:20] schestowitz and a browser [14:21] smnthermes Servo-based browser? [14:21] schestowitz Servo is offensive [14:21] schestowitz like "git" [14:21] schestowitz they're servants of Microsoft [14:21] schestowitz we need to abolish both [14:22] schestowitz servo also uses rust, which is a servant of Microsoft [14:22] schestowitz which is obviously an ethnic thing [14:22] schestowitz they tell us [14:22] schestowitz only blacks serve whites.... or something.. [14:23] schestowitz and masters can only ever be "white" and "privileged".. or something [14:23] schestowitz I reckon a large nation like China and India had far more masters and slaves than the US and Europe combined every had [14:23] MinceR schestowitz: it's replacing GNU [14:23] schestowitz they just had different words for those things and practices [14:23] MinceR at least until they rename Linux to systemd-kerneld [14:23] schestowitz for sure the Japanese made sex slaves and used CHinese slave labour for centuries [14:24] MinceR or move its repo inside the systemd repo [14:24] MinceR or both [14:26] schestowitz let's see how long for linux can stay outside Microsoft's direct claws (GitHub) [14:26] schestowitz they already had a few goes/test runs at it [14:26] schestowitz http://techrights.org/2020/08/27/outsourcing-linux-to-microsoft-github/ [14:26] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Warning: Microsoft Tim and Microsofts New Mole Inside Linux Foundation Board (a Paid-For Seat) Liaise to Outsource Linux Development to Microsofts Proprietary Software Trap | Techrights [14:26] schestowitz Microsoft can easily seize control of anything in GitHub [14:26] schestowitz and even censor those who oppose that [14:27] schestowitz to make a false or parallel reality about what's going on [14:27] schestowitz happened to Rust, afaik [14:27] schestowitz and they silence Microsoft critics now [14:27] schestowitz Rust and anything made with it may be doomed to fail [14:27] schestowitz http://techrights.org/2020/08/31/linux-should-reject-github/ [14:27] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | The Linux Kernel Needs to Reject Rust for the Same Reason Linus Torvalds Rejects GitHub (Where Rust is Hosted and Developed) | Techrights [14:34] vZS1 The real problem is the devs. GNU is a thing because developers build off each other's work and make it easy to do so. Also at the same time using the right license and development platform to swat away the grubby hands of GAFAM. [14:36] vZS1 A lot of people don't realise how legendary the programming and hacking skills the GNU vanguard have. The GPL and AGPL make sure that works like those stay copyleft. [14:38] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Today in #Techrights http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144502 [https://pleroma.site/objects/f505888d-9da4-4924-a325-bf5fb1a9dd9f] [14:39] vZS1 One way TR could really contribute is to dispel the myth that "permissive" licenses help developers. Look at how badly projects like OpenBSD suffered financially. Their work basically got leeched by GAFAM and they got nothing back. Copyleft is important to keep control of work that's done by domain experts. [14:39] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Fedora 34 to Introduce KDE Plasma Spin for 64-bit ARM http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144501 [https://pleroma.site/objects/75c86159-d96c-4e9f-85ff-ea998fe6d3ed] [14:39] vZS1 The OpenBSD financial struggles are easily accessible on Wikipedia [14:40] vZS1 Look to a project like nmap to see how to do copyleft right [14:41] vZS1 The nmap license is basically AGPL but with clauses for commercial support contracts and a separate OEM license for inclusion in proprietary products [14:41] vZS1 They keep control of their project and have finances rolling in. And users still have full freedom over their software [14:44] MinceR > swat away the grubby hands of GAFAM. [14:44] MinceR that doesn't seem to be working anymore [14:44] vZS1 Yes it did y [14:44] vZS1 Does* [14:44] vZS1 Look at nmap [14:44] MinceR microshit took over Linux [14:44] vZS1 I'm not talking about Linux [14:44] MinceR corporate SJWs took over FSF and cancelled RMS [14:44] schestowitz [14:39] One way TR could really contribute is to dispel the myth that "permissive" licenses help developers. Look at how badly projects like OpenBSD suffered financially. Their work basically got leeched by GAFAM and they got nothing back. Copyleft is important to keep control of work that's done by domain experts. [14:44] schestowitz We wrote a LOT about GPL back in the days [14:45] schestowitz AGPL also [14:45] schestowitz around 2007 [14:45] vZS1 Do the nmap license [14:45] MinceR OpenBSD may yet survive Linux and GNU [14:45] vZS1 It's a good one [14:45] schestowitz vZS1: new: https://social.wildeboer.net/@jwildeboer/105196692271789473 [14:45] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Jan Wildeboer: "If you, for whatever reason, want to make sure yo" - social.wildeboer.net [14:46] schestowitz Perens likes AGPL http://techrights.org/2020/08/31/bruce-perens-on-supplicants/ [14:46] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Key Parts of the Latest Talk From Bruce Perens, Who Seemingly Wants to Go Back to Freedom (Because Open Became Increasingly Meaningless and Users Are Harmed) | Techrights [14:47] vZS1 FOSS, Open Source, etc are all harmful terminology [14:47] vZS1 The BSD licenses are also crap for user freedom [14:48] vZS1 Because you just gift free code to GAFAM with any BSD license [14:48] schestowitz not only to GAFAM [14:48] schestowitz it ends up cheapening development of proprietary crap [14:49] vZS1 Pretty much [14:49] scientes vZS1, no, there is no harm. Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me. [14:49] schestowitz and meanwhile that does not improve the code we have available to all [14:49] MinceR also to any free software project that uses a different license from the one you would have used :> [14:50] vZS1 AGPL is what we need now. [14:50] vZS1 The sign that GAFAM treat it like poison is a good one for copyleft [14:50] schestowitz they bribe SFC [14:51] schestowitz http://techrights.org/2020/08/06/video-copyleftconf/ [14:51] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Video: Microsoft-Sponsored Copyleft Conf (Keynote Sold to Microsoft, a Serial GPL Violator and Primary FUD Source) Features Previous FSF (Co)President and RMS Ouster | Techrights [14:51] scientes What we need now is more money and power. [14:51] schestowitz http://techrights.org/2020/04/30/copyleft-conf-2020/ [14:51] vZS1 Anyway. Got to get back to work [14:51] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Platinum (Top) Sponsors of Copyleft Conf Are Companies That Attack Copylefts Father, Richard Stallman | Techrights [14:51] vZS1 Lots to do [14:51] schestowitz general manager of OSI now [14:51] scientes If only I had more money, and more power. [14:51] schestowitz Deb Icaza [14:51] schestowitz that's their entry point [14:51] schestowitz pay money, get in [14:52] schestowitz speak FOR what you ATTACK [14:52] vZS1 OSI, FSF, EFF, SFC, W3C, all compromised [14:52] cybrNaut GAFAM is too short. MACFANG is better. (MS Amazon CloudFlare Facebook Apple Netflix Google) [14:52] schestowitz EFF today [14:53] schestowitz [11:03] [Notice] -viera to #boycottnovell-social- Dr. Roy Schestowitz (): #EFF again failing to blast #microsoft for what it did (yes, EFF is useless for many things) and telling people to #deletegithub https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/11/github-reinstates-youtube-dl-after-riaas-abuse-dmca [https://pleroma.site/objects/8f6e1f07-a01f-4008-83fa-e5dd35f90cda] [14:53] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.eff.org | GitHub Reinstates youtube-dl After RIAAs Abuse of the DMCA | Electronic Frontier Foundation [14:53] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-pleroma.site [14:53] schestowitz also yesterday [14:53] schestowitz [09:40] [Notice] -viera to #boycottnovell-social- Dr. Roy Schestowitz (): #EFF Push Back Against #RIAA , Reinstate #Youtubedl Repository https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20201116/17110245717/github-eff-push-back-against-riaa-reinstate-youtube-dl-repository.shtml EFF deflecting from #microsoft role. Boo. [https://pleroma.site/objects/4f3c972c-f2e3-4d95-9c23-d2e9a0f9a6a7] [14:53] vZS1 I need to get back to work on this RSS library [14:53] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-GitHub, EFF Push Back Against RIAA, Reinstate Youtube-dl Repository | Techdirt [14:53] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-pleroma.site [14:53] cybrNaut leaving CloudFlare out is a mistake. they're the biggest rat bastard scumbags [14:53] schestowitz it's part of a pattern [14:53] schestowitz EFF never really criticises Microsoft anymore [14:53] scientes cybrNaut, is that a iPhone attachment? [14:53] scientes macFang [14:53] schestowitz they even gave an AWARD to a Microsoft privacy abuser [14:54] schestowitz EFF is finished to me, almost... [14:54] schestowitz the people I trusted there have left or died [14:54] scientes diabetic monitor [14:54] schestowitz Financially compromised too http://techrights.org/2019/01/20/google-internship-eff/ [14:54] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | The EFF Must Return That Internship Money to Google or It Would Disgrace the Patent Reform Movement (by Association) | Techrights [14:54] schestowitz http://techrights.org/2020/09/29/a-good-look-at-the-eff/ [14:55] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | EFF: Sitting on a Massive Pile of Money and Members Are Less Than a Third of the Revenue | Techrights [14:55] schestowitz they're a money-making machine [14:55] cybrNaut EFF does seem overly fixated on Google, and Google is the lesser of MACFANG evils [14:55] schestowitz EFF takes money from Google [14:55] schestowitz it's too gentle on it at times [14:55] schestowitz Maybe it waits for some bribes from Marky Zucky too [14:55] schestowitz to add to that $40,000,000 in the bank [14:56] schestowitz they attacked email encryption [14:56] schestowitz with that "efail" BS [14:56] schestowitz which backfied [14:56] schestowitz and they recommended the Microsoft-hosted Signal [14:56] schestowitz which REQUIRES a 'phone' number [14:56] scientes cybrNaut, so they suck your blood, but suck less of it? [14:56] schestowitz and which Vault 7 leaks had already shown to be compromised [14:57] schestowitz that's after head honchos of EFF had died [14:57] schestowitz now it's cindy cohen [14:57] schestowitz I don't know her technical creds [14:57] schestowitz she probably has /some/, nowhere near Barlow's [14:57] schestowitz and maybe it's worth finding out who she's connected to, like who spouse works for [14:58] cybrNaut We need an EFF that has a pair of balls, and not in bed with the Tor project. Tor project are sellouts, easily bribed by donations. EFF respects those who bribe Tor [14:58] schestowitz we might have hit the jackpot if it can mine that deep [14:58] scientes > EFF respects those who bribe Tor [14:58] scientes nice quote [14:58] schestowitz EFF stood up for Assange when Barlow was stilll in charge [14:58] schestowitz after that things changed [14:59] schestowitz so EFF was no longer even an ally of reporting that exposes imperialism [14:59] schestowitz and war crimes [14:59] schestowitz it's "not good" for attracting "sponsors" [14:59] schestowitz better to be "diplomatic" and "soft" [14:59] schestowitz like OSI [14:59] schestowitz with blog posts welcoming everything Microsoft [14:59] schestowitz Even proprietary software [14:59] scientes my favorite Psalm is 26: "Do not sweep me away with sinners/Nor take my life away with violent men,/Whose hands engage in shameful conduct,/And whose right hand is full of bribes." ● Nov 18 [15:00] *psymin (~psymin@fsf/member/psymin) has joined #techrights [15:01] scientes cybrNaut, I have been in this channel a long time, and also seen emotional stuff in the #talos-workstation channel, and the #1 thing I have to say is what Lawrence Lessig said: Code is Law. Focus on the code, not the people. The code is far more powerful. [15:01] scientes what he said was "Code is Law" [15:02] schestowitz figosdev quotes the same [15:02] schestowitz Code=conduct, practical conduct [15:02] vZS1 I'll keep nagging about this until the end of time. GPL is no longer effectively copyleft thanks to clown services. Old projects need to be relicensed under AGPL or orgs will run away with our foundational code. [15:02] schestowitz like who gets banned [15:02] schestowitz esp. if you automate it [15:03] scientes vZS1, you are not focusing on the code [15:03] scientes you are all in your head [15:03] scientes and you drive away people that can code [15:03] schestowitz they can still be agpl-compliance and make or run derivs that do bad things [15:03] scientes towards using BSD licenses [15:04] schestowitz like, you could let them rewrite webserver code to do more spying and then "Share back the changes" [15:04] vZS1 Yes. But then they are legally obligated to share modifications [15:04] schestowitz which one might say even weaponises more companies like them [15:04] schestowitz vZS1: yes, even malicious mods [15:04] vZS1 So you see the spyware out in the open [15:04] schestowitz and then? [15:04] schestowitz you cannot force them to run them sans the mods on their clowns [15:05] vZS1 They are forced to give back [15:05] schestowitz so on that particular front we can at best expose or copy [15:05] vZS1 That's the whole point [15:05] schestowitz but not forces them NOT to run some malicious coe derived off yours [15:05] schestowitz *code [15:05] vZS1 You can't stop that with copyleft [15:05] scientes vZS1, they are *obliged*, but that doesn't mean they do [15:05] schestowitz BTW [15:05] schestowitz I got some notes on GPL violations [15:06] schestowitz for upcoming articld [15:06] scientes and if you don't do anything then *you* are the problem [15:06] cybrNaut scientes: by /Focus on the code/, i thought you where talking about moral code, not coding, but your reply to vZS1 makes it sound like you meant programming [15:06] schestowitz [17:58] > Im waiting for another email / message before doing so, as we have found a few GPL violations from Dolby, which seems to suggest some prior art. [15:06] schestowitz [17:58] > [15:06] schestowitz [17:58] > Many thanks for the followup. [15:06] schestowitz [17:58] If we have evidence of those violations, we can do a separate article about that. [15:06] schestowitz The GPL violation angle might also be of interest. [15:06] schestowitz If anyone out there can research this [15:06] scientes cybrNaut, I do mean programming [15:06] schestowitz lurking/reading logs [15:06] schestowitz it's hard to locate info on this [15:07] vZS1 Right now they're having a field day doing whatever they like with GPL code, hiding behind their clowns [15:07] scientes cybrNaut, but form matches function, so software can certainly effect behavior, which is also what Lessig says in the same breath with "Code is law" [15:07] vZS1 AGPL would force them to become exposed [15:07] vZS1 That's why to them it's anathema [15:07] schestowitz "Code is Conduct (Cic) :) [15:08] scientes vZS1, not really--the communication is already there, the problem is that the software doesn't show it [15:08] schestowitz and it might not deter their useds [sic] off them [15:08] schestowitz weaken off it [15:08] schestowitz as we already saw, facebook can be 'literally nazis', addicted useds would still be used [15:08] scientes Edward Snowden says this well [15:08] vZS1 They also can't boast about their "in-house" solutions [15:09] vZS1 When they're basically ripping off GPL code wholesale [15:09] schestowitz "Solushens" [15:09] schestowitz malware [15:09] schestowitz "secret sauce" [15:09] schestowitz "apps" [15:09] scientes schestowitz, slushions [15:09] scientes hahaha [15:09] vZS1 Anyway. Enough of my diatribe. I've got code that needs hacking. [15:09] schestowitz "just get di uppp" [15:10] schestowitz press "OK" to all [15:10] schestowitz microphone also [15:10] schestowitz we need to access your mic and phone book.. to serve you milkshake today [15:10] scientes vZS1, if you actually care about these issues you should write some code to show to other people what you see so they see the same as you [15:12] MinceR 18 155245 < cybrNaut> GAFAM is too short. MACFANG is better. (MS Amazon CloudFlare Facebook Apple Netflix Google) [15:12] MinceR still no intel [15:14] XRevan86 Intel's inside [15:14] schestowitz I heard another one, with Twitter and Clownflare in it [15:14] schestowitz figosdev says GIAFAM for IBM [15:14] schestowitz Oracle is never named [15:14] schestowitz or Salesforce... both do software and always malicious [15:14] schestowitz MinceR: Intel is h/w [15:14] schestowitz mostly [15:14] schestowitz more so than Apple [15:14] scientes schestowitz, GIAFAM reminds me of GNAA [15:15] MinceR ah yes, IBM was missing too [15:15] schestowitz scientes: open up [15:15] schestowitz open up the GAFAM [15:15] MinceR schestowitz: well, UEFI, IME and IBG are cancerous enough [15:15] MinceR (and TianoCore, but that's UEFI) [15:15] schestowitz IBM is shrinking, even before covid [15:15] MinceR ibm bought hedrat and they're trying to kill GNU [15:15] scientes all these organizations should join GNAA [15:16] MinceR :> [15:16] scientes including FSF [15:16] scientes GNU is a project, not an organization [15:16] XRevan86 Is Oracle actually noteworthy? [15:16] scientes XRevan86, exactly, all they do is make accounting software [15:17] schestowitz SAP [15:17] XRevan86 scientes: You mean databases? [15:17] scientes lots of oppurtunities for graft in accounting software, but little technical interest [15:17] schestowitz accounting also [15:17] schestowitz 'middleware' [15:17] scientes XRevan86, databases are a dime a dozen, what makes them money is very simple accounting software [15:17] schestowitz Oracle has many bribery scandals [15:17] scientes but it means they are between the business and the money [15:17] XRevan86 They also have Java, that's probably their biggest grip on IT. [15:17] schestowitz same for Microsofr and IBM [15:18] schestowitz it's easy t bribe in the public sector and get away with it [15:18] scientes and it is well known that whoever touches the money ends up with it [15:19] oiaohm scientes: accounting software turns out to be quite a hard thing with all the different tax code changes every year. [15:19] scientes oiaohm, the IRS had a easy solution to that: nationalize TurboTax [15:20] scientes https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-for-free [15:20] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.irs.gov | Free File: Do Your Federal Taxes for Free | Internal Revenue Service [15:20] schestowitz but intuit hides it [15:20] schestowitz to sell premium [15:20] schestowitz and propublica did many investigations [15:20] schestowitz and that yielded results [15:20] schestowitz graft [15:21] schestowitz IRS was supposed to punish Microsoft [15:21] schestowitz follow the money [15:21] schestowitz US government is likely more corrupt than ours [15:21] scientes schestowitz, at least your government decided that it wanted to taste sweet soverignity [15:21] scientes except they don't know what that means [15:22] scientes https://i.insider.com/5a3a5047ec1ade50b8276e1a?width=1200&format=jpeg&auto=webp [15:22] schestowitz scientes: when did they evict Liz and her boys? [15:29] *CrystalMath (~coderain@reactos/developer/theflash) has joined #techrights [15:33] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144505 [https://pleroma.site/objects/18cc1fb6-3ed1-463f-8850-6ddf1535b273] [15:37] oiaohm XRevan86: Java is about the second biggest grip in most places. The most common worse is Microsoft SQL database wackyness. [15:37] *notanamber has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [15:38] oiaohm Mind you that is commonly linked. Someone made something in java on windows with the free version MS sql server and now it landed on you to fix up that it works on a Linux box. [15:55] XRevan86 oiaohm: At least that's more localised ● Nov 18 [16:50] *oiaohm has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [16:53] MinceR https://ircz.de/p/20082458 [16:53] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4845815) [16:57] *oiaohm (~oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #techrights [16:57] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [16:58] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights ● Nov 18 [17:06] DaemonFC[m] Java is okay. I'm glad that Sun freed OpenJDK or else Android would be in serious danger. [17:06] DaemonFC[m] Android Runtime is becoming a more and more important part of Chrome OS. [17:08] *oiaohm_ (~oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #techrights [17:09] MinceR android is in serious danger nevertheless [17:09] MinceR and so is everyone else who uses java successfully [17:10] MinceR https://ircz.de/p/20082452 [17:10] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4845476) [17:11] *oiaohm has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [17:19] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Ubuntu Web Remix Wants to Be a Chrome OS Alternative, Beta Available Now http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144506 [https://pleroma.site/objects/82e11b49-f0ee-48de-9cf6-a8a79bf7fbd2] [17:20] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Kali Linux 2020.4 Ethical Hacking Distro Is Out Now with ZSH as Default Shell, Linux 5.9 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144507 [https://pleroma.site/objects/9cb00232-390d-42ea-a26c-d3a2f6c33893] [17:22] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: : #AMD #Radeon RX 6800 Series Linux Performance http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144504 [https://pleroma.site/objects/01886c4b-785e-4824-8b28-6fc3bd67bc08] [17:22] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Kubuntu 20.10 Groovy Gorilla review http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144503 [https://pleroma.site/objects/8d9a3a96-fdb6-40ff-9ffa-002d30b7c3e3] [17:49] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Todays #HowTos | #UNIX http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144508 [https://pleroma.site/objects/5df71530-e1ab-4434-9bdf-2653082c6251] [17:55] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: OpenMW, Stadia and More http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144509 [https://pleroma.site/objects/cf4f7f5b-8a89-4a06-ae52-a4d38c4316b7] ● Nov 18 [18:07] vZS1 Last time I checked, Android was shifting heavily toward Kotlin and Dart [18:09] XRevan86 Kotlin is JVM [18:09] vZS1 Ah [18:09] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Fedora 34 to Introduce KDE Plasma Spin for 64-bit ARM http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144501#comment-27182 [https://pleroma.site/objects/21d83134-d2ac-4940-bf8e-0800036c3cde] [18:09] XRevan86 It's seeing insane rates of adoption, yes. [18:10] vZS1 Tbf, a lot of stuff is built on JVM. Clojure, for example. [18:10] scientes yes, Java has two languages [18:11] scientes and success of JVM meant that GCC's native-compiled Java crumbled (also JDK/JVM finally opened up, despite that stupid Oracle v. Google suit) [18:11] scientes I meant one of the original JavaSoft employees in SF once (before the Sun acquisition) [18:12] scientes and he still has a sour taste about C [18:13] scientes *I met [18:14] scientes it was at a Docker hack-fest [18:14] scientes at Docker's headquarters in the financial district [18:14] vZS1 From what I've been seeing, Google are pushing Flutter and Dart really hard. [18:15] scientes vZS1, yes they are, and they are reporting huge up-tick in China (Go is also massive there) [18:16] vZS1 I don't know if Kotlin is losing out on attention. Haven't got a clue with Google. Never know what they're going to push or drop. [18:16] scientes I don't want to loss the experience of having a free compiler [18:16] scientes *loose [18:16] XRevan86 * loosen [18:16] scientes and I also am struggling to get into FPGAs, and the non-free toolchains built on LLVM are a big problem [18:17] scientes i.e. Richard Stallman was right [18:17] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Interesting Linux Distributions To Enlighten Your 3rd Quarantine http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144510 [https://pleroma.site/objects/a310e6ce-2ded-4494-8822-956f93c14ac9] [18:20] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Graphics: Mesa and AMD Radeon http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144512 [https://pleroma.site/objects/87936b37-38d2-4662-91fb-f2d4188fa704] [18:20] MinceR https://ircz.de/p/2008243 [18:20] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4844055) [18:20] *inky has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [18:22] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Purisms Librem 5 Mass Production Linux Phone Begins Shipping to Customers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144511 [https://pleroma.site/objects/e876c94b-96a5-43c2-8850-a474a50da394] [18:22] DaemonFC[m] Yeah, Element has been rewritten in Kotlin. [18:23] *inky (~inky@141.136.77.20) has joined #techrights [18:24] DaemonFC[m] Some Ohio idiots infected half of the 87 people at their wedding party and then said gee what were the chances. [18:24] DaemonFC[m] https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/18/ohio-wedding-covid-coronavirus/?outputType=amp [18:24] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.washingtonpost.com | Almost half of guests test positive for coronavirus after Ohio wedding - The Washington Post [18:27] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: T1 Modem Variant Works In Librem 5 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144511#comment-27183 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3541e6d6-3ff9-43e2-8488-bbc5e8f26d06] [18:28] *inky has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [18:32] CrystalMath DaemonFC[m]: i don't think even one is going to die though [18:33] *Blukunfando has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [18:35] MinceR they're immortal? [18:36] MinceR (cat) (no audio) https://i.imgur.com/N6HuJNc.mp4 [18:37] schestowitz [18:35] they're immortal? [18:37] schestowitz In boats that had covid19 spreading dozens died [18:39] schestowitz MinceR: oddly enough it can play with Firefox on my side [18:39] schestowitz but not Rianne's [18:39] schestowitz both are the same OS [18:40] MinceR maybe one of them is missing some codecs or other libraries [18:41] schestowitz mpegs as 'pages' [18:41] CrystalMath MinceR: they won't die of covid [18:42] MinceR CrystalMath: over 250k people in uhmerica already died of COVID-19 [18:44] CrystalMath so? [18:44] CrystalMath many more died for other reasons [18:45] CrystalMath many were old and had to die anyway [18:45] MinceR everybody has to die [18:45] CrystalMath yeah but i mean [18:45] CrystalMath it was time [18:45] MinceR that doesn't change the cause of death [18:47] CrystalMath well i never said the virus was nothing [18:47] CrystalMath i just said the virus kills very very few [18:47] CrystalMath it's still something [18:48] CrystalMath and it can get those who would have died this year anyway [18:51] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Open Hardware: Arduino, FPGA, Raspberry Pi http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144513 [https://pleroma.site/objects/41694fe9-eaea-4c0a-9216-8b554d43ef3e] [18:53] *Blukunfando (~bkf@147.red-83-42-109.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) has joined #techrights [18:59] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: IBM/Red Hat/SUSE Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144514 [https://pleroma.site/objects/047244b4-d10a-41da-b045-7542686b77fc] ● Nov 18 [19:04] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Programming Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144518 [https://pleroma.site/objects/009729f7-8341-40b4-87d1-164b89601493] [19:05] MinceR https://ircz.de/p/2008242 [19:05] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4844051) [19:07] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Mozilla and Tor: Release and Greenwashing http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144519 [https://pleroma.site/objects/71eaeb33-a6af-43fa-8a92-b38642b2c235] [19:08] schestowitz [18:47] i just said the virus kills very very few [19:08] schestowitz lol [19:08] schestowitz only 1.5 million [19:08] CrystalMath did you really expect less people to die this year? [19:08] vZS1 More than a lot of wars [19:09] CrystalMath you do realize 60 million die every year [19:09] CrystalMath that's more than a lot of wars too [19:09] schestowitz from causes that can be prevented at times [19:09] schestowitz like car accidents [19:09] schestowitz until you find vaccine against car accidents, I'll side with mortality experts [19:09] CrystalMath okay but why is 1.5 million more important than the other 58.5 million? [19:09] schestowitz the cause [19:10] CrystalMath so? [19:10] schestowitz and the potential of 150 million dead if everyone gets it [19:10] CrystalMath covid can be prevented [19:10] CrystalMath there's masks [19:10] schestowitz and hospitals cannot cater for people with things like cance [19:10] schestowitz *cancer [19:10] *inky (~inky@141.136.79.18) has joined #techrights [19:10] CrystalMath it's all prevantable, except *something* gets you invariably [19:10] schestowitz waste of time [19:10] schestowitz bye [19:11] CrystalMath in other words, you can't defend your insane fear of covid-19 [19:11] CrystalMath it's completely irrational [19:11] CrystalMath except for the fact that humans are always afraid of the unknown [19:11] CrystalMath that's how i justify my own fear earlier this year [19:12] vZS1 I still fail to grasp how it's so hard to wear a mask, practice social distancing, and being a bit more careful with hygiene. [19:12] CrystalMath i thought this thing is gonna kill an additional 50 million [19:12] CrystalMath of course that didn't happen [19:12] CrystalMath it strikes me that people just have no idea how many people "normally" die all the time [19:12] CrystalMath 1.5 million is a normal week [19:13] CrystalMath yes, that many die every week [19:13] CrystalMath it may seem like a lot [19:13] CrystalMath but it's really not [19:13] CrystalMath because 2 million are born [19:13] CrystalMath we're so overpopulated that we've become but drops in a stream [19:14] CrystalMath you can't even pretend to care about human life when it shuffles around his quickly [19:14] CrystalMath *this [19:14] CrystalMath i wish it was slower, i wish we had less births and less deaths [19:15] vZS1 Christmas time will probably see a sharp rise in cases. Our lockdown will probably be lifted by then and everyone will hit the pubs [19:15] vZS1 Our = UK [19:17] CrystalMath it's no wonder that people have become some hateful [19:17] CrystalMath how can anyone's life have value when they get replaced 2 million fold every week [19:17] CrystalMath and no wonder everything's descending to fascism [19:18] CrystalMath the government can just kill those who disagree with them [19:18] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 18/11/2020: NASA and GNU/Linux, Fedora KDE Plasma Spin for 64-bit ARM http://techrights.org/2020/11/18/64-bit-arm-kde/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/7341399c-74ba-4a6f-8c33-53f53cd01324] [19:18] CrystalMath i mean even if they killed a thousand per day it would make NO dent [19:18] CrystalMath it's sad [19:18] CrystalMath it's horrible [19:19] schestowitz [19:11] in other words, you can't defend your insane fear of covid-19 [19:19] schestowitz nope [19:20] schestowitz I have the same policy for climate 'debates' [19:20] schestowitz some things are repeatedly proving to be a waste of time [19:21] CrystalMath you can't defend that either [19:21] CrystalMath i say humans have no right to change the climate of the planet [19:21] CrystalMath and that goes both ways [19:21] CrystalMath no destroying it, but no fixing it either [19:22] *gde33 (~gde333@84-106-154-98.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) has joined #techrights [19:22] *gde34 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [19:23] *gde33 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [19:24] *gde33 (~gde333@84-106-154-98.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) has joined #techrights [19:25] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Mozilla #Thunderbird 78.5 Released with More OpenPGP Improvements http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144516 [https://pleroma.site/objects/c4628efd-f93e-4d8f-be57-9c51534a32c6] [19:27] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Kali Linux 2020.4 Release http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144517 [https://pleroma.site/objects/43baf18d-356a-4d69-92dc-f47f0ad7d53d] [19:29] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Regolith 1.5 Released with Support for Ubuntu 20.10 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144515 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b32ec182-686a-4fb9-9526-dba4d17f02df] [19:31] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Librem 5 Mass Production Phone Has Begun Shipping http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144511#comment-27185 [https://pleroma.site/objects/918c787d-3cd6-4f8b-b879-6c846848113c] [19:32] *obarun (~obarun@host-115-126-165-174.fibre.nautile.nc) has joined #techrights [19:32] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Firefox 83 Released with JavaScript Engine Updates, Https-Only Mode http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144459#comment-27184 [https://pleroma.site/objects/90736a4f-0d71-4742-a508-0b6544cfc5e4] [19:37] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux and open source: The biggest issue in 2020 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144521 [https://pleroma.site/objects/866e7dab-a6a3-4b98-b5e8-df4c91079194] [19:39] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Banana Pi quad-GbE router SBC features M.2 and five mini-PCIe slots with SIM http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144520 [https://pleroma.site/objects/25381eba-d313-4782-8a48-efedf22d8a27] [19:40] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Radeon RX 6800 Series Has Excellent ROCm-Based OpenCL Performance On Linux http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144522 [https://pleroma.site/objects/f06a88b8-42db-4d9d-b92e-63a6f3a2969e] [19:41] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144523 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b2dd9725-d7cc-4adc-8e2b-b0677f404a88] [19:56] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Purisms Librem 5 Linux smartphone is now shipping http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144511#comment-27188 [https://pleroma.site/objects/7b389718-6039-46d8-943b-bbe77b7a7956] ● Nov 18 [20:02] *obarun has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [20:09] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Todays #HowTos | #UNIX http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144524 [https://pleroma.site/objects/7bbb67fc-d443-4feb-aa10-59bc3bbbebd9] [20:50] DaemonFC[m] Bill Gates has a bunch of bandaid fixes for the climate too which wouldn't work. [20:50] DaemonFC[m] These ideas are the sort of stuff that maybe you can just nuke a hurricane. [20:51] schestowitz they're frauds [20:51] schestowitz then again, some people are wired since birth only to pursue money [20:52] schestowitz the PR angle is leveraged when public backlash threatens the revenue [20:55] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Ubuntu Web Remix is a Linux distro that puts Firefox front and center (Chrome OS alternative) http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144506#comment-27191 [https://pleroma.site/objects/10c30936-df31-4857-912c-37fbfea3172d] ● Nov 18 [21:06] *GNUmoon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [21:10] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Audiocasts/Shows: Destination Linux, Loving GNU/Linux and More http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144525 [https://pleroma.site/objects/2b12195c-a230-4b7d-96aa-d386a7ec5fa6] [21:20] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Kernel: GraalVM, WireGuard and Radeon Software for Linux http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144526 [https://pleroma.site/objects/51afc0b0-0468-4a99-9a81-c2c0440507bb] [21:23] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: Godot, Steam and Unity3D (Microsoft Mono Vector) http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144527 [https://pleroma.site/objects/ff996987-7ffc-41d9-8c44-13bf2c9ff647] [21:33] *schestowitz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [21:33] *schestowitz (~schestowi@unaffiliated/schestowitz) has joined #techrights [21:35] *Blukunfando has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [21:38] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: FydeOS beta brings Chromium OS to the PineBook Pro (Android app support too) http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/144528 [https://pleroma.site/objects/b4bcc367-bc13-4a6f-9667-c22db21ce02e] [21:40] *cubexyz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [21:45] *Blukunfando (~bkf@147.red-83-42-109.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) has joined #techrights [21:46] schestowitz >> This is an anti-pattern in systemd too-- they take no responsibility [21:46] schestowitz >> for breaking anything and always pass the buck upstream. [21:46] schestowitz >> [21:46] schestowitz >> "You broke XYZ" [21:46] schestowitz >> [21:46] schestowitz >> "No we didn't, we followed their documentation to the letter. Their [21:46] schestowitz >> own implementation is broken have upstream fix their stuff instead [21:46] schestowitz >> #WONTFIX" [21:46] schestowitz >> [21:46] schestowitz >> Ignoring of course that IT WORKED UNTIL THEY FUCKED WITH IT. So [21:46] schestowitz >> they've taken something that works and moved the fix from where it's a [21:46] schestowitz >> fix to upstream where it's someone else's bug report. Very neighbourly [21:46] schestowitz >> of them. [21:46] schestowitz >> [21:46] schestowitz >> [21:46] schestowitz >> [21:46] schestowitz >> > never have occurred. Rather than be angry at Lenovo, let's put [21:46] schestowitz >> pressure on Intel to provide support for their hardware." [21:47] schestowitz >> [21:47] schestowitz >> Don't bother Lenovo about Lenovo products, let's put pressure on [21:47] schestowitz >> Intel, not vendors who dump shit on you. [21:47] schestowitz >> [21:47] schestowitz >> If you buy a camping lantern and it blows up your garage, don't take [21:47] schestowitz >> it up with the lantern manufacturers, put pressure on Big Oil to make [21:47] schestowitz >> their fuels more stable. [21:47] schestowitz >> [21:47] schestowitz >> There's a funny little valve in them made by GarbleFiddleCorp, you're [21:47] schestowitz >> just ridiculous to bother the lantern people about this, don't you get [21:47] schestowitz >> it? They don't actually make anything. They're really just a glorified [21:47] schestowitz >> online payments system. [21:47] schestowitz >> [21:47] schestowitz >> [21:47] schestowitz >> Both parties failed to support users. If Intel fails to support them [21:47] schestowitz >> and then Lenovo fails, You can put more pressure on Intel and Lenovo, [21:47] schestowitz >> and even put more pressure on Intel BY putting pressure on Lenovo, who [21:47] schestowitz >> then will tell Intel "Hey, people hate our products with your shit in [21:47] schestowitz >> them." [21:47] schestowitz >> [21:47] schestowitz >> For some reason though, this concept doesn't appeal to everyone. [21:47] schestowitz >> Lenovo did their best man, they don't make platform controller hubs, [21:47] schestowitz >> leave them alone! [21:47] schestowitz > Looking at Python, there is a very similar anti-pattern going on, as [21:47] schestowitz > they break their own work. Interestingly, from the very beginning, Van [21:47] schestowitz > Rossum avoided logical and sematic specifications for the Python [21:47] schestowitz > Language, asking everyone to refer to the CPython implementation as [21:47] schestowitz > "the standard'. What this does is to guarantee that any other [21:47] schestowitz > implementation has a second-class status, and any difference is [21:47] schestowitz > essentially a "bug". And even worse, he has maintained a moving target [21:47] schestowitz > so any other implementation will always be deficient (or different) in [21:47] schestowitz > some way - and this is true even of his own previous releases (see [21:47] schestowitz > Python 2). Upon reflection, rather than a practical way to make rapid [21:47] schestowitz > progress, this can be seen as a diabolical scheme to maintain a power [21:47] schestowitz > relationship. No wonder he was called "Dictator". [21:49] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [21:51] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [21:52] *zjmc_ (~jmc@184.75.221.179) has joined #techrights ● Nov 18 [22:11] kingoffrance eh, not that i really ever got into python, but the opposite is just as bad; standard doc with no implementation == vapourware "a diabolical scheme to maintain a power relationship". i suspect the ideal is a mix, where docs reflect reality rather than a pipedream [22:12] kingoffrance i am using standard and "docs" interchangeably [22:12] kingoffrance but i dont think thats a stretch, same issue [22:13] kingoffrance likewise, "tests" enters into this. docs with no tests, what good would a standard do if theres no way to test an implementation conforms or not? [22:14] kingoffrance so id put "tests" as the bridge between these 2 things [22:15] kingoffrance of course, someone could argue java or something went too far in that direction too [22:19] *vZS1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [22:20] kingoffrance you can even draw a triangle code/tests/docs and then any point warped too far could be considered "bad" [22:23] *kingoffrance patents triangle paradigm, rakes in billions as a consultant, vanishes just before it all collapses [22:25] *timur_demin (~tdemin@2a03:1ac0:6dc3:9367::2) has joined #techrights [22:26] *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights [22:27] *viera has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [22:28] *kingoffrance has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [22:28] *tdemin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [22:29] *kingoffrance (~x@2601:681:8200:b890::e88d) has joined #techrights [22:31] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [22:45] *viera (~viera@2602:fd37:1::84) has joined #techrights [22:45] schestowitz https://joindiaspora.com/posts/19476821 [22:45] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-@schestowitz@joindiaspora.com: Organisations Are/nt the Problem http://techrights.org/2020/11/18/orgs-dilemma/ #Techrights #GNU #Linux #FreeSW #FSF [22:45] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights--> techrights.org | Organisations Are/nt the Problem | Techrights [22:46] DaemonFC[m] RE: systemd taking no responsibility for anything. [22:46] DaemonFC[m] Yet another reason to be on a long term support distribution where they carefully backport certain patches only. [22:47] DaemonFC[m] In addition to broken kernel series, Fedora will throw in random cherry picks from systemd that cause severe issues when they're really not worth the risk. [22:48] DaemonFC[m] Unless it's a serious crasher, a sizable memory leak, or has security implications, leave it the hell alone. [22:48] DaemonFC[m] Unfortunately, systemd is so poorly designed that there are hundreds if not thousands of THOSE over an Ubuntu LTS lifespan that have to be dealt with. ● Nov 18 [23:04] *zjmc_ (~jmc@184.75.221.179) has left #techrights [23:13] *esaym153 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [23:14] *chris_uk[m] has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [23:15] *esaym153 (~esaym153@net153.net) has joined #techrights [23:27] *chris_uk[m] (chrisukmat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-cvxeorpxinxmdynl) has joined #techrights [23:29] DaemonFC[m] I think it's one of those things that's here and maybe we try to make the best of the situation later. [23:31] *timur_demin is now known as tdemin [23:42] vZS1 Go is actually very good in the sense that it had a spec and a solid reference implementation [23:42] vZS1 s/had/has [23:43] vZS1 Raku also good, in that regard [23:44] *cubexyz (~cubeman@maxhost.org) has joined #techrights [23:45] vZS1 Haskell also [23:45] vZS1 Rust has no spec and that's what really put me off taking the language seriously [23:47] vZS1 You can't keep up with a language that has no specification and is constantly changing. Only the language architects know what's going on, at that point. [23:52] vZS1 "Just do things like this. You don't need to understand how it is supposed to work." gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-techrights-181120.txt

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