●● IRC: #techrights @ FreeNode: Monday, November 02, 2020 ●● ● Nov 02 [00:43] *inky has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) ● Nov 02 [01:11] MinceR https://ircz.de/p/20090424 [01:11] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-ircz.de | IRCZ makes your life worth living Post object (4867820) [01:13] schestowitz heh [01:13] XRevan86 This assumes that 50 is a middle age. [01:14] schestowitz no [01:14] schestowitz median [01:14] XRevan86 Every human ever lives for 100 years exactly. [01:14] schestowitz there are more young people than old, too [01:15] schestowitz so a good guess would be weighted average of some king [01:15] schestowitz *kind [01:15] schestowitz maybe 35 [01:15] schestowitz I actually though about this some days ago [01:15] XRevan86 schestowitz: A good guess will also take other factors into account, and then this joke would just fall apart. [01:16] schestowitz the context being, what average lifespan for existing human given that there are more young than old, except places like singapore and japan [01:17] XRevan86 I think a better median value is the average age of every human that's out there right now. [01:18] XRevan86 Which is 31 according to Wikipedia. [01:18] schestowitz wow, when you factor in poor countries [01:18] XRevan86 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_median_age#By_population_division [01:18] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-en.wikipedia.org | List of countries by median age - Wikipedia [01:19] schestowitz makes sense [01:20] schestowitz so far, far off from 50 [01:20] XRevan86 It's good that we've figured out the truth and debunked this joke :D [01:20] schestowitz should say 30, then 15 [01:20] MinceR :> [01:20] schestowitz until it's older, than 45 [01:21] schestowitz *then [01:21] schestowitz actuallt that's false too [01:21] schestowitz you need to study the distribution for these subgroups [01:21] schestowitz they're not evenly distributed [01:21] schestowitz it might be 31, then 14 [01:22] schestowitz and 31, then 43 [01:22] MinceR for the joke to work, it needs to be likely insulting though [01:22] XRevan86 There's actually a need for a bit more research, because the query is specifically about a "girl", not a generic human. [01:22] schestowitz some people want to make girl genetic also [01:22] schestowitz the genderfluid thing [01:23] schestowitz a human that "just happens" to have a vulva [01:23] XRevan86 This won't affect the big picture here. [01:24] MinceR (cat) https://imgur.com/gallery/1pvHr3d [01:24] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Caaaaaats! - Album on Imgur [01:24] schestowitz XRevan86: true [01:24] schestowitz anyway, we joke about the joke [01:24] schestowitz by being overly pedantic about the numbers [01:25] XRevan86 MinceR: That's why it's a debunk ;) [01:26] XRevan86 because more correct numbers break the punchline [01:26] schestowitz the joke might age well [01:27] schestowitz if it weren't for covid [01:27] schestowitz not sure how life expectancy will change in the coming years [01:27] schestowitz seeing how excess deaths rise a lot [01:27] schestowitz it's something like 70,000 in the UK [01:27] schestowitz Taking all causes and factors into account, e.g. surgeries canceled [01:28] XRevan86 You rounded 30.9 to 30, that's probably more precise long-term. [01:29] schestowitz is that figure for female? [01:29] schestowitz (would be higher than men's) [01:30] XRevan86 No, that's a pre-cooked figure from Wikipedia. For females specifically one'd need to calculate it oneself. [01:31] schestowitz speaking of cooking, [01:31] schestowitz Putin must be cooking some popcorn [01:31] schestowitz for tuesday madness [01:31] schestowitz there will be chaos no matter the outcome [01:35] XRevan86 oh, I didn't notice another estimate, that is actually divided by sex, from 2018: 30.4 all, 29.6 male, 31.1 female [01:35] XRevan86 "CIA World Factbook 2018 estimate" World [01:37] XRevan86 schestowitz: It's obvious that one outcome is more preferrable for him than the other, so probably no popcorn. [01:40] schestowitz the outcome of chaos is OK for him [01:40] *mmu_man has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [01:40] schestowitz and serves to weaken the concept of real democracy, not just in the US [01:40] schestowitz if not democracy (it's not), at least election [01:40] XRevan86 The word that Putin uses is "liberalism". [01:41] schestowitz and respect for fair elections [01:42] XRevan86 The US is one of those countries where it is very easy to criticise the election system, even without going into concrete details. [01:44] XRevan86 However, I strongly disagree with the sentiment that this means voting doesn't matter. In a sense, that makes it matter more, because if it's harder to make the voice of the demos heard, then the demos should express it louder. [01:46] XRevan86 There are two counterexamples though: the 2020 Putin referendum and the Zelensky's October "5 questions" national poll. [01:46] MinceR with rifles, from the rooftop [01:47] XRevan86 I don't give a shit about who went and voted (and voted how) in these two events. [01:50] schestowitz MinceR: London had missile launchers [01:50] schestowitz during the Olympic Games [01:51] MinceR even better, if the people can afford them [01:51] schestowitz They can, as taxpayers [01:51] schestowitz London even bought water cannons [01:51] schestowitz "Boris" bought those [01:51] schestowitz Khan sold them [01:51] schestowitz for "crowd control" [01:52] schestowitz "Boris" and Agent Orange like squirting [01:53] MinceR BoJo the clown [01:54] schestowitz that's a compliment [01:54] schestowitz he's a lot worse than clowns [01:54] MinceR :> [01:54] schestowitz clowns don't fail so many people who die [01:54] MinceR BoJo the idiot circus boy? [01:55] MinceR https://blood-wiki.org/images/c/cb/Jo-Jo-Add.png [01:55] schestowitz bojo the boTcher [01:55] schestowitz butcher who botches everything [01:55] schestowitz and then acts like, "oops, that was funny" [01:55] XRevan86 So every US citizen who has the right to vote should vote for the stable genius to make my glorious leader happy and help further the imperial ambitions of my mother country. Every bit counts, if you don't chip in, he might very well lose. [01:55] MinceR :> [01:56] schestowitz XRevan86: even when he loses he claims he "won" [01:56] schestowitz and I can guess cops and army are on his side [01:56] schestowitz because it's a failed state [01:56] XRevan86 schestowitz: If he's the only one who agrees on that he won, I don't think the rest of the world would actually care. [01:56] schestowitz with nazi-like mindset in key positions with arms and authority to shoot [01:57] XRevan86 I don't think the US is in Belarus' yet. [01:58] schestowitz Mela-rus [01:59] XRevan86 I'd be very surprised if Alexonald Trumposhenko will actually manage to successfully stage a coup. [01:59] schestowitz COVIDemented ● Nov 02 [02:03] XRevan86 I think his hints that he might try that are just another sign of his delusions. [02:03] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has left #techrights [02:04] XRevan86 I want him to try and I want to see footage of guards forcibly removing him from the White House :). [02:07] XRevan86 It could also be a sign that he's afraid that after he loses presidency he'll get sued for all the crap he's done. [02:07] XRevan86 then long shots might not look too risky [02:10] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has joined #techrights [02:19] *swaggboi has quit (Quit: C-x C-c) [02:22] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has left #techrights [02:43] *swaggboi (~swaggboi@slackware.uk/supporter/swaggboi) has joined #techrights [02:43] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has joined #techrights ● Nov 02 [03:02] *rianne__ has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) [03:02] *rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-169-118.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights ● Nov 02 [05:23] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has left #techrights [05:34] *inky (~norayr@178.78.148.86) has joined #techrights ● Nov 02 [06:06] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has joined #techrights [06:12] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has left #techrights [06:20] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has joined #techrights [06:32] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #LinuxMint pre-loads Chromium and Brings New IPTV Player http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143915 [https://pleroma.site/objects/2ca9036d-4ac3-4bc1-874b-38e82cf780f8] [06:33] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has left #techrights [06:39] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux 5.8 Reaches End Of Life: Heres How To Upgrade To Linux 5.9 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143912#comment-26980 [https://pleroma.site/objects/6e4e837e-f03a-4b05-a5b0-1f22c12d9750] [06:40] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has joined #techrights [06:46] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has left #techrights ● Nov 02 [07:10] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has joined #techrights [07:17] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has left #techrights [07:25] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has joined #techrights [07:31] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has left #techrights [07:48] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has joined #techrights ● Nov 02 [08:43] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx > I wonder if the ipfs extension vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx urged me to add caused part of that.. [08:43] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx If it's an issue, just bin it. You can just use the CLI. [08:53] schestowitz I put that offline for now ● Nov 02 [09:00] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx For kirc, on this host, with `sudo pmap 917 | tail -n 1`, I get 2756KB. [09:00] *mmu_man (~revol@vaf26-2-82-244-111-82.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #techrights [09:01] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx `sudo pmap PID | tail -n 1` is a convenient way to get a quick idea of what's going on with memory. [09:09] schestowitz task: ... [09:09] schestowitz find out what OS SFD staff is using [09:09] schestowitz SFC [09:09] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx What's SFC? [09:10] schestowitz Software Freedom Conservancy [09:10] schestowitz find meta in pdfs [09:10] schestowitz might be intersting [09:10] schestowitz might be interesting [09:10] schestowitz I am working on an article about them [09:11] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx I actually bumped into their site while I was looking stuff up a week or two ago. [09:11] schestowitz can you look fro hints about software usage? [09:11] schestowitz I reckon a few of them don't use FS [09:11] schestowitz but some other crap [09:11] schestowitz they're hypocritical in their stance [09:13] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx "Conservancy Announces New Strategy for GPL Enforcement and Related Work, Receives Grant from ARDC" [09:13] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx There you go [09:13] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Classic tactic [09:13] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx GPL but not AGPL [09:14] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx GPL doesn't work in 2020. [09:14] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx You need AGPL to enforce copyleft. [09:15] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx From the article "Today, we observe almost universal failure in compliance throughout the (so-called) Internet of Things (IoT) market. Only unrelenting enforcement that holds companies accountable can change this abysmal reality." [09:15] oiaohm vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx: Not exactly sure some of the China rulings on GPL have got very warped to say the least. [09:15] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx And yet not a single word about AGPL [09:15] oiaohm Particularly the ruling that GPL is between the developer of the software and the end user. [09:15] oiaohm If that is taken one way in China GPL and AGPL are no different. [09:16] oiaohm AGPL does make it clear. [09:16] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Well then the Chinese ruling is sabotaging the AGPL. Because AGPL clearly states you can't just hold the software behind a network and then server modified versions. [09:17] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Without disclosing said modifications [09:17] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx The GPL is dead. [09:17] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx The quicker that message spreads the better. [09:17] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx It's unfit for use now. [09:18] schestowitz enforcing agpl might not be easy [09:18] schestowitz and gpl is not dead [09:18] schestowitz you repeat the FUD of Microsoft and Co. [09:19] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx It might not be easy but it kills the loophole in the GPL [09:19] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx That allowed SAAS to steal GPL software. [09:20] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx And I'm not repeating any FUD [09:20] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx I'm just saying we need the right license [09:20] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx AGPL is the same with just a plug for a loophole [09:21] oiaohm There was a china case over SAAS with GPL where the SAAS was forced to give up source code or cease using the GPL work their choi8ce. [09:21] oiaohm So using SAAS to get around GPL may not turn out long term legally healthy. [09:21] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx But why make life harder for ourselves when AGPL makes that clear? [09:22] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx I was happy to see Guix using AGPL for a lot of their stuff. They have the right idea. [09:22] oiaohm AGPL does not have any major cases anywhere show its enforcement is possible. [09:23] *obarun has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [09:23] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Chicken and egg problem. People need to start using it for a case to pop up. [09:23] oiaohm That why I am not sure if GPL or AGPL is better yet. [09:23] oiaohm With the odd rulings going on with GPL. [09:23] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Also, those rulings depend on the country you are in. [09:23] oiaohm The concept in china that GPL is between you and your end user due to being contract not copyright. [09:24] oiaohm That really flips the GPL license around a lot. [09:24] schestowitz http://techrights.org/2020/08/18/daniel-wallace-v-gpl-revisited/ [09:24] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Daniel Wallace Explains Why He Challenged the GPL (Copyleft) in Court | Techrights [09:24] oiaohm Yes the question comes how many other countries is GPL valid as a contract. [09:25] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx From the source: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/agpl-3.0.html [09:25] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.gnu.org | GNU Affero General Public License - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation [09:25] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx "However, in the case of software used on network servers, this result may fail to come about. The GNU General Public License permits making a modified version and letting the public access it on a server without ever releasing its source code to the public." [09:26] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx A lot of clown services rely on people not transitioning to GPL. [09:27] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx AGPL* [09:27] oiaohm That the intesting point china high court did not agree. [09:27] oiaohm The fall out of that legally as not sorted out yet. [09:28] *obarun (~obarun@host-115-126-165-174.fibre.nautile.nc) has joined #techrights [09:32] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx "To "convey" a work means any kind of propagation that enables other parties to make or receive copies. Mere interaction with a user through a computer network, with no transfer of a copy, is not conveying." [09:33] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx "5. Conveying Modified Source Versions." [09:33] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx "You may convey a work based on the Program, or the modifications to produce it from the Program, in the form of source code under the terms of section 4, provided that you also meet all of these conditions:" [09:33] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx "c) You must license the entire work, as a whole, under this License to anyone who comes into possession of a copy. This License will therefore apply, along with any applicable section 7 additional terms, to the whole of the work, and all its parts, regardless of how they are packaged. This License gives no permission to license the work in any other way, but it does not invalidate such permission if you have separately recei [09:34] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx That's what causes a lot of confusion [09:35] schestowitz can we get back to the original issue? What OS SFC uses? [09:36] schestowitz Brad and his sidekick likely use some gnu/liux [09:36] schestowitz but not sure about the rest [09:36] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx They could produce stuff in a VM and nobody would be the wiser [09:36] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx So metadata not really helpful unless there was a slip [09:36] schestowitz also, can you find out where "Denver Gingerich" came from? [09:36] schestowitz Never saw that name before [09:37] oiaohm vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx: it gets harder when you have sent like javascript over the wire. [09:37] oiaohm Mere interaction with software over the network like telnet you have not transfered any code. [09:38] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx oiaohm: JS always finds a way to complicate things. [09:38] oiaohm The china rulings get into these complex things. [09:38] oiaohm is there convey there of any form comes a horrible question./ [09:39] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx I was just pointing out their structuring of those clauses makes it seem like only conveying would trigger AGPL. But that's not the case. Serving a modified version also triggers AGPL but you have to do conditional clause digging. [09:40] oiaohm These little complicate things is why using a GPL work on a SAAS could legally be as bad as AGPL. AGPL makes it clear you have screwed up. GPL you get to court and have the judge say you screwed up. [09:41] oiaohm Please note the rulings one when you have to release source code with GPLv2 is not even fully sorted out yet. [09:43] oiaohm I am not saying don't release code as AGPL. But you should not straight up think a GPLv2/v3 work is any safer as there many ways you can use a GPLv2/v3 work in a SAAS setup that you have to treat it like AGPL or be illegal. [09:44] oiaohm Its not really safe to spread the idea that choosing GPLv2/GPLv3 is 100 percent safe for SAAS to abuse. [09:44] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx schestowitz: All I got for Denver is that he's the founder or something of that sorts of "JMP(.chat)" [09:45] schestowitz maybe new sfc staff [09:45] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx oiaohm: I see what you were trying to say now. [09:45] schestowitz http://techrights.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/sfc-riaa.jpg [09:46] schestowitz maybe it'll help if I hit publish prematurely [09:46] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Let me give it a quick skim [09:46] schestowitz and then I can proofread with you while it's "live" [09:46] schestowitz ok, read this quickly http://techrights.org/2020/11/02/sfc-morality/ [09:46] schestowitz expect typos [09:46] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | The Software Freedom Conservancy Needs to Resign From Microsoft Before Telling Microsoft to Resign From RIAA | Techrights [09:47] oiaohm Really Microsoft resigns from the RIAA will not stop the DCMA processes. [09:47] schestowitz yes, it's pointless [09:48] schestowitz the right wing calls that "virtue signaling" [09:48] schestowitz and they take money from Microsoft [09:48] schestowitz which shows how shallow this BS is [09:48] oiaohm The fact Microsoft could pay enough to have a seat on RIAA board they techically could change RIAA polices. [09:48] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Looks good to me [09:48] oiaohm Resign does not change anything., [09:48] oiaohm Microsoft decided to fight striaght in RIAA board that could change something. [09:49] oiaohm Of course I don't think Microsoft will [09:51] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx I'm glad TR is pushing the GitHub issue. This hegemony over development platform infrastructure is possibly one of the biggest threats we've faced in a long time. [09:52] schestowitz it is [09:53] oiaohm Really our software development tools like git are designed around single server setups. Not server with mirror setup. [09:54] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx IPFS solves that issue to a big extent. You can just pin a nightly tarball on the IPFS network. [09:54] oiaohm Not really., [09:54] oiaohm IPFS version of git has the magic disappearing repo problem. [09:54] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx I'm not saying to put a live repo integrated into IPFS [09:55] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx I'm just saying nightly tarballs can be pinned on IPFS [09:55] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx And it's very easy to distribute [09:55] oiaohm For development we do need the repos. [09:55] oiaohm w [09:55] oiaohm We also need to make them more durable. [09:56] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx The main issue is more how to make something like bugzilla more durable. [09:56] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Because that's where live interaction needs to propagate quickly [09:56] oiaohm If you have the nightly tarballs alone you are also missing the bug report data and other things to keep development going as well. [09:56] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has left #techrights [09:56] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Good timing lol [09:56] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx You can't really have a system like bugzilla on IPFS. You need centralised infra for that. [09:56] oiaohm Its our current complete development system [09:57] oiaohm that needs a over all. [09:57] oiaohm all/hall. [09:57] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx I've got a few tarballs that I'm going to put on IPFS anyway. [09:57] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has joined #techrights [09:57] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx It beats doing nothing about it [09:57] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Like zipped GNU coreutil tarballs [09:58] schestowitz lol [09:58] schestowitz pleroma.site cert expired [09:58] schestowitz causing loads of issues [09:58] schestowitz I remember the days you could just set up a site [09:59] schestowitz without worrying about letsencrypt stuff [09:59] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx We can still just set up a site. [09:59] schestowitz or having the site made inaccessible in spite of the server working just fine [09:59] schestowitz all this extra complication [09:59] schestowitz for CAs that are likely compromised anyway [09:59] schestowitz for US Empire [09:59] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx It's the web browsers that ruined it all [09:59] oiaohm https://www.ctrl.blog/entry/ipfs-repo-cache-gc.html ipfs is not really long term stable solution. [09:59] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.ctrl.blog | When does IPFS garbage collector clear the cache ● Nov 02 [10:01] schestowitz pleroma.site is in essence non-functional now [10:01] schestowitz the server works ok, but the cert was not renewed [10:01] schestowitz so let the whole thing burn to death [10:01] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx That link is bullshit [10:01] schestowitz because of worthless cert from likely compromised CA [10:01] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Pinned IPFS objects don't get garbage collected [10:02] schestowitz this is the kind of thing Torvalds called "masturbating monkeys" [10:03] schestowitz letting things go awol for the mere pretence of "security" [10:03] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx https://docs.ipfs.io/how-to/pin-files/#three-kinds-of-pins [10:03] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-docs.ipfs.io | Pin files | IPFS Docs [10:05] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx I'm putting up a lot of IPFS pins as experiments this week. I'll link the HTTP gateway versions here. [10:05] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Thing is Let's Encrypt don't actually give you a cert [10:05] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx You generate it locally [10:06] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx They just "verify" it [10:06] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx But that verifying is bullshit [10:06] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx That monopolises certification power [10:06] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx And browsers have pushed that monopoly for a decade or more by now [10:07] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx web browsers [10:07] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx So if you really want to boycott someone [10:07] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Boycott all the browsers that do that [10:08] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx They've done a great job of scaring away every single average computer user with those warnings [10:09] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx There's no simple button to trust a self-signed TLS cert [10:09] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx You have to click many buttons and wade through multiple ominous warnings to do it [10:09] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx That's a FUD work of art [10:11] oiaohm Not really no one solved the problem how to validate a human or a site certiicate [10:13] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx In the private security world we do that by physical exchange. Over the internet you need to have some level of third-party trust. [10:14] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx The best you can do is look at the IP address you're communicating with. Over a different channel, you ask if that's the IP address of the person handling the TLS. [10:15] schestowitz 9am is an odd time for cent to expire, but LF is in the west coast where it is midnight [10:15] Chaekyung http://www.cacert.org/ CaCert has been around for ages. It's a community-driven grass-roots kind of organization trying to give out free SSL certificates. [10:15] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Welcome to CAcert.org [10:15] schestowitz lots of services can no longer connect to pleroma.site [10:15] Chaekyung After .. like 20 years, or perhaps it's just 15? they are still not included in any major web browser [10:15] schestowitz not just Web browsers [10:16] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Nobody should be in control of "giving out" certs [10:16] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx That should be locally generated by the sysadmin [10:16] schestowitz this "trust" model goes beyond web browsing [10:16] Chaekyung pleroma.site has a expired certificate [10:16] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx it's like if someone asked me for my private encryption keys. You have got to be joking. [10:16] schestowitz Chaekyung: yes, for 1-3 hours [10:17] Chaekyung I use Letsencrypt myself [10:17] schestowitz Microsoft funded [10:17] schestowitz and NSA connected [10:17] Chaekyung the certificates are valid 90-days [10:17] Chaekyung so what schestowitz [10:17] Chaekyung you can submit to them OR pay like $200 for a certificate not from them [10:17] schestowitz easier to game cerf numbers when they let them expire so fast [10:17] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx TLS infrastructure right now needs to die [10:17] schestowitz Chaekyung: I am criticising not just them [10:17] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx It's a monopoly [10:18] schestowitz they used to mock Chinese CAs [10:18] schestowitz as if the US does in fact respect security and privacy [10:18] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx It's like if someone asked me to let them verify my GPG keys. [10:18] schestowitz they have control over many sites [10:18] schestowitz on multiple levels [10:19] schestowitz the sites outsource trust to a cabal of monsters [10:19] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Third-party verification of any asymmetric-encryption needs to die [10:19] Chaekyung Well, in this day and age of censorship, everyone being kicked off youtube, patreon, mailchimp, paypal, etc for saying the wrong thing.. [10:19] oiaohm vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx: its not that simple., [10:19] Chaekyung I got to hand it to let's encrypt, I have no yet seen them say "We don't like your site for $vaguereasons so you can't renew that cert" [10:19] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Look at RMS. People are impersonating him on GPG keyservers. That's because third-party verification is a scam. [10:19] oiaohm How to reduce man in middle attack problems. [10:19] schestowitz mailchimp? [10:19] schestowitz never heard of it [10:19] oiaohm That the problem [10:19] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx You use end-to-end encryption [10:20] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx And you get a public key from the original issuer [10:20] Chaekyung neither had I schestowitz. Apparently it's a mailing list service used by some, and they ban people who cover the wrong topics [10:20] oiaohm vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx: I guess you have never used a ISP that man in middle websites and added their own adveristement as a funding model. [10:20] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx It is simple [10:20] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Stop saying it's not simple [10:20] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx This has been done in security since the beginning of things like GPG [10:20] Chaekyung oiaohm: yeah I've heard of that one. That's pretty sick [10:20] oiaohm Yes including man in end to end encrytpion. [10:20] oiaohm This is the problem we are dealing with. [10:21] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx There is no man in the middle to worry about with end-to-end encryption [10:21] schestowitz facebook "end to end" [10:21] schestowitz ending with Trump [10:21] *rianne__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [10:21] schestowitz :-) [10:21] Chaekyung vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx: Now it's PERSON in the middle attack [10:21] Chaekyung PIMA [10:21] *rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-169-118.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [10:21] oiaohm You can man in middle end to end encryption of you don't have a validation process of some form. [10:22] schestowitz Chaekyung: the politics? [10:22] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Yes and you validate with the person who issues the public key [10:22] schestowitz man is a dirty word in all contextx? [10:22] schestowitz *contexts [10:22] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx In my work we exchange public keys in person [10:22] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx It doesn't get more secure than that [10:22] schestowitz because oh man.... changing all those terms and acronyms will make life harder [10:22] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Lower level we send public keys via mail [10:22] schestowitz for women also [10:23] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx snail mail [10:23] schestowitz if MitM is not deprecated as a term [10:23] schestowitz *now [10:23] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx And then over the phone we check fingerprints [10:23] schestowitz people needing to memorise more terms that mean the same thing for purely political purposes [10:24] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx I advised a certain project not long ago to just use Let's Encrypt to set up a web page with a GPG public key on it. [10:24] schestowitz pleroma.site [10:24] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx And then after that ditch TLS altogether [10:24] schestowitz Let's Encrypt Authority X3 [10:24] schestowitz They outsourced trust the US [10:24] schestowitz the site is hosted in France [10:24] schestowitz and it lets Trumpland decide on trust [10:24] schestowitz this is 2020 [10:24] schestowitz with dictator running the US [10:25] schestowitz French site giving the US control over the site's access [10:25] schestowitz heck, outsource that to a Turkish CA [10:25] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx schestowitz: Let's Encrypt isn't a disaster because at least you generate all the keys on your own machine [10:25] oiaohm https://wiki.squid-cache.org/Features/SslPeekAndSplice this is what makes life complex. [10:25] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-wiki.squid-cache.org | Features/SslPeekAndSplice - Squid Web Proxy Wiki [10:25] schestowitz Erdogan will be OK with it until they "insult" islam [10:25] oiaohm Why is it a disaster to let you generate you own keys so keeping the private key properly hidden. [10:26] schestowitz we need a new acronym [10:26] schestowitz DDoC [10:26] schestowitz Downtime Due tO Cert [10:26] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx TLS is a waste of time [10:26] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx I don't use it in any of my projects [10:26] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx We use OpenPGP for everything [10:26] oiaohm Now not having more countries offering letsencrypt services is a problem. [10:27] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx I'm glad TR doesn't use TLS [10:27] schestowitz have we all settled on one CA? [10:27] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Keep it that way schestowitz [10:27] schestowitz monopoly for trust is always a Bad Idea(TM) [10:27] schestowitz and look who sponsors that CA [10:27] schestowitz literal criminals [10:27] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Yes. And TLS is a monopoly of trust [10:27] schestowitz companies that do genocides [10:27] schestowitz for profit [10:27] *GNUmoon has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [10:27] *inky has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [10:28] oiaohm we also cannot forgot we have had different parties wanting to alter connections for personal gain as well. [10:28] schestowitz Mark Shuttleworth became almost a billionaire (by Western currencies) by helping a company get closer to monopoly [10:28] *inky (~norayr@178.78.148.86) has joined #techrights [10:29] schestowitz "Google Xenon2020' [10:29] schestowitz That's in the cert, no idea what that is [10:29] oiaohm monopoly for trust I agree is bad. But we also do need a validation option for sites we don't have direct dealing with. [10:29] schestowitz but having "Google" in your cert doesn't inspire confidence [10:29] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx I will never support TLS in any form. [10:29] schestowitz they make money by undermining security/privacy [10:30] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Because it is a monopoly [10:30] oiaohm TLS and SSL came about because of man in middle problems. [10:30] schestowitz can't DNS be extended to deal with this? [10:30] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx OpenPGP solves all these problems [10:30] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx The argument is a waste of time [10:30] schestowitz oiaohm: the ISP is still mitm for many purposes [10:30] oiaohm The threat of man in the middle has not gone away. [10:31] schestowitz right [10:31] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx There is not man in the middle threat in end-to-end PGP encryption [10:31] schestowitz Like I said, "masturbating monkeys" (Torvalds) [10:31] schestowitz they hardly solve the issue, but they stroke one another about building a "trust" monopoly [10:31] schestowitz sponsored and controlled by them [10:31] schestowitz more control over people's browsers and browsing [10:31] oiaohm OpenPGP with what been done with SSLPeekAndSPlice without adding a validation system is open to man in middle. [10:32] schestowitz and another censorship vector [10:32] schestowitz even if you use a local webhost and ISP [10:32] schestowitz at a time of war they can knock out sites at the "trust" level to deny access to competing narratives [10:32] oiaohm The man in middle problem is not simple to solve heck I don't think we have close to the solution yet. [10:32] oiaohm that works in all cases. [10:33] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Listen, oiaohm. I am only going to say this one more time. If you validate the fingerprint of a PGP public key over something like a phonecall or in person, there is no possibility of man in the middle attack. If you don't understand this you don't understand how OpenPGP works. [10:33] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has left #techrights [10:33] schestowitz it goes beyond browsers [10:33] oiaohm vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx: and are you going to be able todo that for every website you use? [10:33] schestowitz brutaldom cannot access pleroma.site, as a service... [10:33] schestowitz so you basically isolate sites from the rest of the web by tampering with cert status [10:33] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has joined #techrights [10:34] schestowitz it's another censorship vector and look who's controlling it [10:34] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Any service, it doesn't matter if it's a website, that doesn't have that capability is not something I would trust at a certain level of operational security. [10:35] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx That's the end of my contribution to this discussion. [10:35] oiaohm vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx: Its not that simple. Man in the middle can be just looking for a weak link to get you something into yoru system. [10:35] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Okay you are clearly a troll [10:36] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx I am no longer going to reply to you. [10:36] *schestowitz seen that before [10:36] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx schestowitz: I recommend you do the same. [10:36] schestowitz not a troll [10:36] schestowitz but annoys some people [10:36] schestowitz usually when acting as Microsoft apologist [10:37] schestowitz or repeating their talking point in one form or another [10:37] schestowitz but def. not a troll [10:38] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx This person is spreading misinformation about how OpenPGP works [10:38] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Please ban said individual [10:39] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx We have little enough resources as it is. We can't afford to waste them combatting misinformation when it's clear. [10:39] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx waste time* [10:42] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx schestowitz: gotta head out for a few hours. I'll be back on later in the afternoon. [10:42] schestowitz chhers [10:43] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Have a good one! :) [10:46] schestowitz two more days before gym closes [10:46] schestowitz will make the most of it [10:47] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Note, same person was advocating for not using AGPL. Yet another clear indicator of a corporate puppet [10:48] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx Everyone: use AGPL. It plugs one of the biggest holes in GPL. [10:49] vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx schestowitz: have a good time at the gym. [10:54] schestowitz cheers [10:54] schestowitz while pleroma.site down: [10:55] schestowitz [10:55] schestowitz Ubuntu-Based Voyager 20.10 GE Released With Linux 5.8 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143916 [10:55] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Ubuntu-Based Voyager 20.10 GE Released With Linux 5.8 | Tux Machines [10:55] schestowitz [10:55] schestowitz GNOME Sushi Doesnt Work in Ubuntu 20.10, But There is a Fix http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143917 [10:55] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | GNOME Sushi Doesnt Work in Ubuntu 20.10, But There is a Fix | Tux Machines [10:55] schestowitz [10:55] schestowitz Benchmarking The Raspberry Pi 400 - A Raspberry Pi Keyboard Computer http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143918 [10:55] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Benchmarking The Raspberry Pi 400 - A Raspberry Pi Keyboard Computer | Tux Machines [10:55] schestowitz [10:55] schestowitz Raspberry Pi 400 Keyboard PC Review and Benchmarks vs Raspberry Pi 4 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143919 [10:55] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Raspberry Pi 400 Keyboard PC Review and Benchmarks vs Raspberry Pi 4 | Tux Machines [10:55] schestowitz [10:55] schestowitz Understand your Python code with this open source visualization tool http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143920 [10:55] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Understand your Python code with this open source visualization tool | Tux Machines [10:55] schestowitz [10:55] schestowitz #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143921 [10:55] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Android Leftovers | Tux Machines [10:55] schestowitz [10:55] schestowitz Linux Kernel 5.8 Reaches End of Life, Better Upgrade To Latest Version http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143912#comment-26983 [10:55] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Linux Kernel 5.8 Reaches End of Life, Users Urged to Upgrade to Linux 5.9 Series | Tux Machines [10:55] schestowitz [10:55] schestowitz Linux Mint Announces New Hypnotix IPTV Player And Chromium Package http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143915#comment-26982 [10:55] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Linux Mint pre-loads Chromium and Brings New IPTV Player | Tux Machines [10:55] schestowitz [10:55] schestowitz Linux 5.8 Reaches End Of Life: Here's How To Upgrade To Linux 5.9 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143912#comment-26980 [10:55] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Linux Kernel 5.8 Reaches End of Life, Users Urged to Upgrade to Linux 5.9 Series | Tux Machines [10:55] schestowitz [10:55] schestowitz #LinuxMint pre-loads Chromium and Brings New IPTV Player http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143915 [10:55] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Linux Mint pre-loads Chromium and Brings New IPTV Player | Tux Machines [10:55] schestowitz [10:56] oiaohm vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx: I was not advocating not using AGPL. I was saying the advantages may not be as be there due to recent legal. When it comes to encryption man middle I have been around long enough to see the symantec case and others like it. [10:56] schestowitz techrights.org/2020/03/04/lets-ask-lets-encrypt/ [10:57] schestowitz maybe ZemlinPAC will have issued a new cert for their site to work again... some time before the day's end [10:57] schestowitz http://techrights.org/2020/03/04/lf-ca-crisis/ [10:57] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Linux Foundation Issued Millions of Faulty Certificates and Linux Foundation CMO Who Worked for James Clapper Has Left | Techrights [10:57] oiaohm The symantec case. Symantec was selling encryption keys to companies fine. But they were also selling deep packet inspection with clone keys. [10:57] schestowitz http://techrights.org/2020/03/04/lets-ask-lets-encrypt/ [10:57] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-techrights.org | Techrights Urges Readers to Ask the Linux Foundations Lets Encrypt (Backed by Companies That Give the NSA Back Doors) Some Hard But Legitimate Questions | Techrights [10:57] schestowitz Symantec does Trump photo ops and is military connected [10:58] schestowitz trust Symantec as much as you trust Bush's wars [10:58] oiaohm Now could lets encrypt being USA based be forced to issue a clone key hell yes. [10:58] oiaohm Really you want multi party validation. [10:58] oiaohm Just because 1 party says that its the right key does not mean it is. [10:58] schestowitz multi party = Pentagon, NSA, Zemlin :-) [10:58] schestowitz there, multi :-) [10:58] oiaohm That where openpgp and ssl/tls can fall into a man in the middle hole. [10:59] oiaohm Really need a system where a certificate is not signed by 1 ca but in fact signed by many each in different countries legal. ● Nov 02 [11:00] oiaohm making getting a fake looking valid certificate insanely hard. [11:01] oiaohm Let's Encrypt I do agree is not ideal. [11:01] oiaohm The hostile thread of man in middle you have to consider they will attempt to mess with CA and DNS servers. [11:02] oiaohm as well as the sites. [11:02] *CrystalMath has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [11:02] oiaohm The threat matrix is not fun. [11:03] *CrystalMath (~coderain@reactos/developer/theflash) has joined #techrights [11:51] *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techrights ● Nov 02 [12:02] *obarun has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [12:18] *inky has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [12:19] *inky (~norayr@178.78.148.86) has joined #techrights [12:57] *inky has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [12:58] *inky (~norayr@178.78.148.86) has joined #techrights ● Nov 02 [13:13] *psymin has quit (Quit: Leaving) [13:14] *inky has quit (Quit: Leaving) [13:22] *inky (~inky@178.78.148.86) has joined #techrights ● Nov 02 [14:28] *guysoft42 (~guysoft@109.226.44.150) has joined #techrights [14:29] *inky has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [14:32] *CrystalMath has quit (Quit: Support Richard Stallman, Jacob Appelbaum, and other good people! | https://sterling-archermedes.github.io/) [14:37] *psymin (~psymin@fsf/member/psymin) has joined #techrights [14:43] *inky (~inky@46.241.181.133) has joined #techrights [14:44] *inky has quit (Max SendQ exceeded) [14:45] *inky (~inky@46.241.181.133) has joined #techrights [14:46] *inky has quit (Max SendQ exceeded) [14:47] *inky (~inky@46.241.181.133) has joined #techrights [14:48] *inky has quit (Max SendQ exceeded) [14:50] *inky (~inky@46.241.181.133) has joined #techrights [14:50] *inky has quit (Max SendQ exceeded) [14:53] *inky (~inky@46.241.181.133) has joined #techrights [14:54] *inky has quit (Max SendQ exceeded) [14:55] *inky (~inky@46.241.181.133) has joined #techrights [14:56] *inky has quit (Max SendQ exceeded) ● Nov 02 [15:29] *inky (~inky@5.77.171.240) has joined #techrights [15:38] *inky has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [15:58] *inky (~inky@5.77.171.240) has joined #techrights ● Nov 02 [16:14] *mlefzvnxkj (~eCNinDAn~@gateway/tor-sasl/spareproject) has joined #techrights [16:14] *inky has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [16:22] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux Mint Announces New Hypnotix IPTV Player And Chromium Package http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143915#comment-26982 [https://pleroma.site/objects/47f49938-6bef-416a-9deb-53167b5f266e] [16:25] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux Kernel 5.8 Reaches End of Life, Better Upgrade To Latest Version http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143912#comment-26983 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3b9dc4ce-cd3b-458c-9c5d-7700a33dc0ed] [16:25] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143921 [https://pleroma.site/objects/c437744d-bed7-42ce-a771-c0c45be9d6d7] [16:26] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Understand your Python code with this open source visualization tool http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143920 [https://pleroma.site/objects/431f00b1-7c35-4608-8cf4-2aea44b13a7b] [16:26] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Raspberry Pi 400 Keyboard PC Review and Benchmarks vs Raspberry Pi 4 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143919 [https://pleroma.site/objects/09e88362-db63-4a16-8bf9-afb749edc43e] [16:26] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Benchmarking The Raspberry Pi 400 - A Raspberry Pi Keyboard Computer http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143918 [https://pleroma.site/objects/36630616-062f-44e4-bf7c-cc2639f910a5] [16:26] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GNOME Sushi Doesnt Work in Ubuntu 20.10, But There is a Fix http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143917 [https://pleroma.site/objects/072fa413-a444-4e19-8acb-893f1e4c3c53] [16:26] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Ubuntu-Based Voyager 20.10 GE Released With Linux 5.8 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143916 [https://pleroma.site/objects/a3b96b8e-74dd-4336-9169-06293e528307] [16:28] *vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx (~vZS1aHdks@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has left #techrights [16:33] schestowitz [11:01] Let's Encrypt I do agree is not ideal. [16:33] schestowitz OK [16:34] *inky (~inky@5.77.171.240) has joined #techrights [16:37] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Meet the Raspberry Pi 400, a complete setup inside a tiny keyboard http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143919#comment-26984 [https://pleroma.site/objects/f8a52089-cd30-46f6-8852-b0abd84c926e] [16:44] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Games: Valve, Godot, Free/Libre Games and More Titles http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143922 [https://pleroma.site/objects/7242fdf3-2cd8-438e-9613-e7fcc8385907] ● Nov 02 [17:14] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Best Linux Distributions For Everyone in 2020 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143924 [https://pleroma.site/objects/c2e301b8-a4be-4615-8efc-0b2400eef0fd] [17:16] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Todays #HowTos | #UNIX http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143925 [https://pleroma.site/objects/ff218669-24d0-4073-b006-6f856eff2a6a] [17:19] *mlefzvnxkj has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [17:20] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Review: #Ubuntu 20.10 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143926 [https://pleroma.site/objects/f9e61411-60df-4de3-88e4-b5895bd6b160] [17:24] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Collabora Online 6.4 Office Suite Arrives with New Look, Improved Document Compatibility http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143923 [https://pleroma.site/objects/da621d8e-e09e-406e-a47f-ac940b2c8480] [17:36] *inky has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) [17:37] XRevan86 https://torrentfreak.com/deciphering-youtubes-rolling-cypher-in-your-browser-is-a-piece-of-cake-201030/ RIAA should DMCA Firefox and Chromium [17:37] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-'Deciphering' YouTube's Rolling Cypher in Your Browser is a Piece of Cake * TorrentFreak [17:40] schestowitz zoobab: http://patentblog.kluweriplaw.com/2020/11/02/better-late-than-never-german-liberal-party-files-parliamentary-question-on-unified-patent-court/ [17:40] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-patentblog.kluweriplaw.com | Better Late Than Never German Liberal Party Files Parliamentary Question on Unified Patent Court - Kluwer Patent Blog [17:41] schestowitz http://patentblog.kluweriplaw.com/2020/11/02/better-late-than-never-german-liberal-party-files-parliamentary-question-on-unified-patent-court/#comments [17:41] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-patentblog.kluweriplaw.com | Better Late Than Never German Liberal Party Files Parliamentary Question on Unified Patent Court - Kluwer Patent Blog [17:41] schestowitz " [17:41] schestowitz All very good questions. However, I am afraid that we can already predict with 100% confidence what the responses will be, namely Everything is in order. Nothing to see here. We can also be certain that the responses will amount to nothing more than hand-waving, smoke and mirrors and half truths. [17:41] schestowitz If there were any valid and robust answers to the questions posed, then those answers would have been provided by now. [17:41] schestowitz " [17:56] MinceR https://img.pr0gramm.com/2020/07/03/aea1b5aa8411624c.jpg [17:58] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The Coolest Little Linux PC: Meet The Raspberry Pi 400 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143919#comment-26985 [https://pleroma.site/objects/faec4a47-47ed-45cd-adf3-c84fd6cc484e] ● Nov 02 [18:02] *inky (~inky@37.186.105.91) has joined #techrights [18:02] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Hangover lets (some) Windows x86 apps run on Linux PCs with ARM or POWER chips http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143927 [https://pleroma.site/objects/74ba03b2-a371-429c-8ee8-2ddd2b0da94a] [18:05] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Interview with Tansy Branscombe http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143928 [https://pleroma.site/objects/c8b07569-bc07-41e5-b45e-c68162f23b2e] [18:16] XRevan86 MinceR: Millions of dung flies cannot all be wrong. [18:18] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Mourning Dan Kohn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143929 [https://pleroma.site/objects/c485e75e-f8bd-4809-8bf9-ba2adfb86319] [18:20] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: The New Raspberry Pi 400 is Basically a Tiny Computer Inside a Keyboard http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143919#comment-26986 [https://pleroma.site/objects/a09f49a5-ea2d-40e0-86ca-fd66f1b37b9b] [18:23] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: GnuCash: A Powerful Open Source Accounting Software http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143930 [https://pleroma.site/objects/6c8a2c2b-34a3-46f8-a9ad-050bcb281536] [18:26] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: An Open Source Leader Is Gone, a Remembrance of Dan Kohn http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143929#comment-26988 [https://pleroma.site/objects/d07b8136-963f-446f-ab2e-c532d5f1485c] [18:35] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Red Hat Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143931 [https://pleroma.site/objects/cd6a4477-6c96-453e-af44-4627913eae60] [18:38] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Kubernetes in Ubuntu http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143932 [https://pleroma.site/objects/86e27db2-9418-4c58-be02-f05c3f02496d] [18:46] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Todays Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143934 [https://pleroma.site/objects/6a6c9b78-a832-4627-a959-325d970ac40a] [18:51] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Links 2/11/2020: Dan Kohn Passes Away http://techrights.org/2020/11/02/dan-kohn-rip/ [https://pleroma.site/objects/3532a02b-69d6-4b4f-a5ba-c4bf94ad45ae] [18:55] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143933 [https://pleroma.site/objects/d4fcd081-8f18-4219-b18b-e92e74a3b9be] ● Nov 02 [19:04] *obarun (~obarun@host-115-126-165-174.fibre.nautile.nc) has joined #techrights [19:06] MinceR https://full.pr0gramm.com/2020/07/03/05cf260cdaf4508a.jpg [19:24] *inky has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [19:37] *inky (~inky@5.77.171.240) has joined #techrights [19:41] *vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx (~dummy@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [19:42] *vZS1aHdksSQKx2tx (~dummy@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has left #techrights [19:52] *obarun has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [19:53] *ALSOvZS1aHdksSQK (~dummy@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [19:54] ALSOvZS1aHdksSQK schestowitz: How'd the gym session go? ● Nov 02 [20:22] *CrystalMath (~coderain@reactos/developer/theflash) has joined #techrights [20:25] MinceR https://img.pr0gramm.com/2020/07/02/a479870fa8c965a3.jpg [20:27] ALSOvZS1aHdksSQK Goold old pr0gramm [20:27] ALSOvZS1aHdksSQK Good* [20:31] *inky has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [20:49] *inky (~inky@5.77.171.240) has joined #techrights [20:53] MinceR (cat) https://imgur.com/gallery/8Sidc6J [20:53] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-Mikey cat - Album on Imgur [20:59] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Orange Pi Zero2 SBC debuts Allwinner H1616 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143935 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3f6897cb-80a6-45d5-a137-777d405dff45] ● Nov 02 [21:00] XRevan86 https://torrentfreak.com/github-warns-users-reposting-youtube-dl-they-could-be-banned-201102/ [21:00] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-GitHub Warns Users Reposting YouTube-DL They Could Be Banned * TorrentFreak [21:01] XRevan86 https://xkcd.com/2380/ [21:01] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-xkcd: Election Impact Score Sheet [21:08] *guysoft42 has quit (Read error: No route to host) [21:10] ALSOvZS1aHdksSQK So GitHub are at it again [21:12] *tr_guest|72915 (4e1a97dc@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.78.26.151.220) has joined #techrights [21:12] *tr_guest|72915 has quit (Client Quit) [21:17] *TTwrs (~TTwrs@c-67-169-185-154.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #techrights [21:23] *TTwrs has quit (Quit: Leaving) [21:35] *rianne__ has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) [21:35] *rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-169-118.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [21:37] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Video: Raspberry Pi 400 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143919#comment-26993 [https://pleroma.site/objects/3cd61650-36ee-4fdf-9d95-ab229ad62bb6] [21:38] schestowitz ALSOvZS1aHdksSQK: yes, they double down [21:38] schestowitz [21:04] [Notice] -viera to #boycottnovell-social- Dr. Roy Schestowitz (): #boycottMicrosoft #boycottGitHub #microsoft #censorship #deletegithub http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143596#comment-26989 [https://pleroma.site/objects/c3486c88-9167-4544-b943-72ef60c7d510] [21:38] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Single Points of Failure and Proprietary Entrapment (Microsoft GitHub) | Tux Machines [21:38] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-pleroma.site [21:40] ALSOvZS1aHdksSQK I had to change my nick because I'm on the Guix IRC as well [21:41] ALSOvZS1aHdksSQK I might just go by something simpler from now on as a nick [21:41] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Todays #HowTos | #UNIX http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143936 [https://pleroma.site/objects/d0ae1817-6ede-4deb-8d5d-00f96c4a083c] [21:41] smnthermes Why use a random nick? [21:41] ALSOvZS1aHdksSQK Can't really think of anything I like ● Nov 02 [22:01] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux Lite 5.2 overview | Simple Fast Free. http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143862#comment-26996 [https://pleroma.site/objects/e70c3a82-6994-4dd0-8c81-e8090281803d] [22:05] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Audiocasts/Shows: This Week in Linux, Linux in the Ham Shack, Linux Action News http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143938 [https://pleroma.site/objects/253e20b2-5904-4fde-bdaf-8775738a9b9b] [22:11] *kupi (uid212005@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-izotevyprbcyotcz) has joined #techrights [22:14] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Security Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143940 [https://pleroma.site/objects/0f3a215a-47c5-4c93-aa67-459e64965be9] [22:14] *ALSOvZS1aHdksSQK is now known as vZS1_techrights [22:14] vZS1_techrights Problem solved. LD [22:14] vZS1_techrights :D * [22:18] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Richard Hughes: New #fwupd 1.5.1 release http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143941 [https://pleroma.site/objects/cd1c0a37-4591-426c-9919-bf68fa796042] [22:21] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Python Programming http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143942 [https://pleroma.site/objects/937cd9f8-c608-4366-82d0-d2b8e167bd6e] [22:28] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: 5 reasons to use GNU/Linux in 2020 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143944 [https://pleroma.site/objects/6af85d8a-a2a9-4756-ad6d-5ed31a1417ca] [22:31] *psydread (eace4d91cc@2a01:7c8:aab8:6b9:5054:ff:fec9:fd84) has left #techrights [22:31] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Linux Lite 5.2 Released: Heres Whats New http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143862#comment-26999 [https://pleroma.site/objects/580e5fd5-ecb0-4e9b-9f36-41e41c16f095] [22:33] schestowitz vZS1_techrights: cool [22:35] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Orange Pi Zero 2 mini PC now available for $16 (Android 10 or Linux, Ethernet, WiFi, and Bluetooth) http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143935#comment-26995 [https://pleroma.site/objects/12ef9b36-7ede-4471-bd4e-43cc2840b4a2] [22:36] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Raspberry Pi 400 released - A keyboard with a built-in Computer http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143919#comment-26997 [https://pleroma.site/objects/a753408c-ce1f-4717-bfed-53b86087a0f7] [22:42] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: #Android Leftovers http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143943 [https://pleroma.site/objects/7d5c7053-aeb4-4554-9f0a-08be77d4eaba] [22:44] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Announcing the Librem Mini V2 http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143939 [https://pleroma.site/objects/969940ef-9780-4b2e-bca3-a11361215e5a] [22:45] *vZS1_techrights has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [22:45] *rianne__ has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) [22:45] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Librem Mini v2 is a little Linux PC with Intel Comet Lake http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143937 [https://pleroma.site/objects/4d8367ff-333a-45c6-b9f1-4679751b09c3] [22:45] *rianne__ (~rianne@host81-154-169-118.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techrights [22:52] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Raku Programming http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143945 [https://pleroma.site/objects/dd534d7c-cea3-4124-814d-bf01011b5819] ● Nov 02 [23:06] *vZS1_techrights (~vZS1_tech@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [23:08] *vZS1_techrights has quit (Client Quit) [23:08] *vZS1_techrights (~vZS1_tech@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [23:09] *vZS1_techrights has quit (Client Quit) [23:09] *vZS1_techrights (~vZS1_tech@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [23:11] *vZS1_techrights is now known as vZS1_guix [23:11] *vZS1_guix is now known as vZS1 [23:12] *vZS1 has quit (Client Quit) [23:12] *vZS1 (~vZS1@host-92-20-231-81.as13285.net) has joined #techrights [23:14] schestowitz vZS1: [22:52] [Notice] -viera to #techrights- Tux Machines: Raku Programming http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143945 [https://pleroma.site/objects/dd534d7c-cea3-4124-814d-bf01011b5819] [23:14] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-www.tuxmachines.org | Raku Programming | Tux Machines [23:14] -TechrightsBot-tr/#techrights-pleroma.site [23:14] schestowitz we had enough of them this time around for a dedicated lump/cluster of links [23:15] vZS1 Nice [23:15] vZS1 I've been drowning in programming languages lately [23:15] vZS1 C, Raku, Guile, Bash, Python, Go [23:16] vZS1 Been using in all of them [23:16] vZS1 using all* [23:16] vZS1 Let me check my RSS [23:19] vZS1 I've spent all evening today tinkering with Guix. [23:20] vZS1 I should have a faint clue of what I'm doing in a few more days [23:20] vZS1 Looks very promising though. Package management is very simple so it's user-friendly [23:21] vZS1 Has support for GNU IceCat [23:21] vZS1 They also have a go-ipfs package [23:22] vZS1 And it's 100% Free Software [23:22] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: Excellent System Utilities: Ventoy http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143899#comment-27000 [https://pleroma.site/objects/399519b3-88c8-470b-8343-f69a2394b95a] [23:23] vZS1 Think I've found my replacement for Debian [23:23] vZS1 schestowitz: after what you brought up about Debian I want to stay no where near it. [23:26] schestowitz what about Debian? [23:26] schestowitz Google? [23:26] schestowitz guix is run by anti-RMS folks [23:26] schestowitz so I lost interest in it [23:27] vZS1 It's a very innovative system [23:27] schestowitz I am suspicious of people who work for IBM and want RMS exterminated [23:27] schestowitz esp. as they base it on a distortion of RMS and his stance [23:27] vZS1 Re: Debian. The links to British intelligence [23:28] schestowitz alleged [23:28] vZS1 Alleged [23:28] schestowitz Assange and Appelbaum were involved [23:28] schestowitz one was canceled [23:28] schestowitz Assange is wrongly quoted as saying that the Debian project fell into hands of spies [23:29] schestowitz Wikileaks denied he had said that [23:29] schestowitz I won't link to it [23:29] schestowitz you can easily find it by searching the Web [23:30] vZS1 Can't be too picky with our tech when good ideas are to scarce to come by [23:30] vZS1 are so* [23:35] schestowitz can't be too gullible either [23:35] schestowitz when your sources depend on it [23:35] schestowitz software sources, site sources etc. [23:35] schestowitz Debian is still relatively trustworthy (to me) [23:35] schestowitz I think their issues are inherently different [23:36] schestowitz Debian isn't any more compromised than IBM/Fedora [23:36] schestowitz and many distros are based on these [23:36] schestowitz so they take downstream what IBM and Debian work on [23:36] schestowitz there's not that many -- distro-wise -- truly independent [23:37] schestowitz even arch linux is now linked to SPI [23:37] schestowitz SPI = Google et al [23:38] vZS1 If it blows up in my face so be it. Can't learn without playing with fire sometimes [23:41] -viera/#techrights-Tux Machines: SiFive shows there is life in RISC-V http://www.tuxmachines.org/node/143795#comment-27001 [https://pleroma.site/objects/c527d980-b727-4078-b1a4-c1053eff2ff3] [23:42] schestowitz SPI = also Microsoft now [23:49] vZS1 The big day tomorrow [23:49] vZS1 All this build up [23:49] vZS1 Let's see how it turns out gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-techrights-021120.txt

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