gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-techbytes-111120.txt

●● IRC: #techbytes @ FreeNode: Wednesday, November 11, 2020 ●● ● Nov 11 [00:33] *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techbytes ● Nov 11 [04:58] *oiaohm has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [04:58] *oiaohm (~oiaohm@unaffiliated/oiaohm) has joined #techbytes ● Nov 11 [07:15] *GNUmoon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [07:41] schestowitz [07:03] Hi. Am I writing to Mr. Roy Schestowitz [07:41] schestowitz [07:03] ? [07:41] schestowitz [07:21] Please I need to speak with Mr Schestowitz and/or techrights and tuxmachines webmasters [07:41] schestowitz [07:21] it's urgent [07:41] schestowitz [07:23] HI [07:41] schestowitz [07:23] hello [07:41] schestowitz [07:23] on the Internet, linking to a site does not requite permission [07:41] schestowitz [07:23] that's how how the Web works [07:41] schestowitz [07:24] I don't claim for all link remova [07:41] schestowitz [07:24] removal [07:41] schestowitz [07:24] it's ok for me [07:41] schestowitz [07:24] but I see an excessive amount pointing to my site [07:41] schestowitz [07:24] coming from your sites [07:41] schestowitz [07:25] my blog counts about 100 articles [07:41] schestowitz [07:26] and I see from my Google Search console about 4'000 links only from tuxmachines.org [07:41] schestowitz [07:26] this is wasting my SEO ranking [07:41] schestowitz [07:26] please, can you help me by reducing links and optimizing them? [07:41] schestowitz [07:32] I think this is false [07:41] schestowitz [07:32] there are maybe 100 links [07:41] schestowitz [07:32] and they send traffic and improve ranking [07:41] schestowitz [07:32] to you [07:41] schestowitz [07:36] ok, thank you for your prompt answer. I'll try to contact Google for this question. If I will need any help, how can I contact you? Have you got an email address? [07:41] schestowitz [07:37] here is ok [07:42] schestowitz [07:37] Google has a bug maybe [07:42] schestowitz [07:37] it should not issue such warnings [07:42] schestowitz [07:38] surely, but hope you understand my worry... [07:42] schestowitz [07:38] thank you again, I'll let you know if I'll need any help [07:42] schestowitz [07:38] linking to a site does not harm it [07:53] *GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) has joined #techbytes ● Nov 11 [08:21] schestowitz I"P address rotated today. Finding the address is as easy as expected, but far more disruptive to the work flow than I had thought." -Anon [08:23] *Condor (~freenode@e1.nixmagic.com) has joined #techbytes [08:35] schestowitz x https://venturebeat.com/2020/11/10/microsoft-and-openai-propose-automating-u-s-tech-export-controls/ [08:35] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-venturebeat.com | Microsoft and OpenAI propose automating U.S. tech export controls | VentureBeat ● Nov 11 [17:38] schestowitz https://twitter.com/csolisr/status/1326579489577586695 [17:38] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@csolisr: @tuxmachines @schestowitz IT'S BAAAAAAACK [17:38] schestowitz https://twitter.com/jrobertson/status/1326579029017845761 [17:38] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@jrobertson: #microsoft #dirtytricks #sameold #gnulinux https://t.co/HImgyiRoq8 [17:38] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@schestowitz: This is utterly disgusting and a hallmark of corrupt, clueless 'journalism'. Microsoft employee says that you can w https://t.co/gb6o0Wflb4 [17:39] schestowitz https://twitter.com/vlntnrthbrg/status/1326571872415346688 [17:39] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@vlntnrthbrg: Did you know that #podman can auto-update containers when there's a new image on the registry? Now available as a t https://t.co/OzfbGCY3tB [17:39] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@vlntnrthbrg: Did you know that #podman can auto-update containers when there's a new image on the registry? Now available as a t https://t.co/OzfbGCY3tB [17:39] schestowitz "Did you know that #podman can auto-update containers when there's a new image on the registry? Now available as a tech preview on RHEL 8.3." [17:39] schestowitz https://twitter.com/fcassia/status/1326555500553637888 [17:39] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@fcassia: @schestowitz The c64 of the 21st century [17:40] schestowitz https://twitter.com/jrobertson/status/1326533240136503296 [17:40] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@jrobertson: Let's hope at least your IOT smoke alarm still works. #iot2020 https://t.co/VjdUrXDQQJ [17:40] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@schestowitz: Hahahaha. #surveillance aficionado Laura Tucker spent ages promoting these #listeningDevices ... and now those "sma https://t.co/wKlzHJM056 [17:41] schestowitz https://twitter.com/ghostDancer_tt/status/1326446937223127045 [17:41] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@ghostDancer_tt: @schestowitz The rats are abandoning the ship. Suckerberg is running away from Trump. [17:41] schestowitz https://twitter.com/GodsWarrior007/status/1326445703162449920 [17:41] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@GodsWarrior007: @schestowitz He could lead us into revolution since our government (legislation) has become oppressive and tyrannical. Lockdowns and masks [17:41] schestowitz "He could lead us into revolution since our government (legislation) has become oppressive and tyrannical. Lockdowns and masks" [17:41] schestowitz https://twitter.com/ashwin_baindur/status/1326445587516936193 [17:41] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@ashwin_baindur: @schestowitz A very important topic which just isn't being given any chance to circulate. [17:42] schestowitz https://twitter.com/ashwin_baindur/status/1326444673716551681 [17:42] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@ashwin_baindur: The United States for all its sham of being a lawful and democratic nation, doesn't hesitate at the slightest to vi https://t.co/sR65Fg2aj5 [17:42] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@ashwin_baindur: The United States for all its sham of being a lawful and democratic nation, doesn't hesitate at the slightest to vi https://t.co/sR65Fg2aj5 [17:42] schestowitz "The United States for all its sham of being a lawful and democratic nation, doesn't hesitate at the slightest to violate every norm imaginable." [17:42] schestowitz https://twitter.com/fcassia/status/1326389335126646789 [17:42] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@fcassia: So much for signed code.... cc/@schestowitz #Windows10 #vista10 #brokenbydesign #security #infosec https://t.co/I5vYHV5agy [17:42] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@mattifestation: With CVE-2020-1599, MS patched a bug that allows an attacker to append data to a signed PE file without invalidatin https://t.co/gY8Q4Tt3GP [17:43] schestowitz https://twitter.com/fcassia/status/1326342172401152001 [17:43] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@fcassia: it's even worse because it's not an unsigned app, it' s a perfectly valid SIGNED APP signed by the @TheASF. cc/ https://t.co/19PSmgOAQI [17:43] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@fcassia: it's even worse because it's not an unsigned app, it' s a perfectly valid SIGNED APP signed by the @TheASF. cc/ https://t.co/19PSmgOAQI [17:43] schestowitz " [17:43] schestowitz it's even worse because it's not an unsigned app, it' s a perfectly valid SIGNED APP signed by the @TheASF [17:43] schestowitz . [17:43] schestowitz cc/@schestowitz [17:43] schestowitz @techdirt [17:43] schestowitz @glynmoody [17:43] schestowitz " [17:43] schestowitz https://twitter.com/xtinybit/status/1326334362997108744 [17:43] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@xtinybit: @schestowitz Attacking ethnic #TIGRAY region claiming he will save them from rebels while cutting power,electrici https://t.co/7s1lBkBqkk [17:43] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@xtinybit: @schestowitz Attacking ethnic #TIGRAY region claiming he will save them from rebels while cutting power,electrici https://t.co/7s1lBkBqkk [17:43] schestowitz "Attacking ethnic #TIGRAY region claiming he will save them from rebels while cutting power,electricity,phone,banks,roads..etc on them. #Abiy is against all of #Tigray at this point" [17:43] schestowitz https://twitter.com/Cryptosange/status/1326313584176099328 [17:43] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@Cryptosange: @schestowitz Stella Moris is a fraud and why NOBODY has ever heard Julian Assange say he loves her. His friends say https://t.co/MUSEdvo4nP [17:43] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-@Cryptosange: @schestowitz Stella Moris is a fraud and why NOBODY has ever heard Julian Assange say he loves her. His friends say https://t.co/MUSEdvo4nP [17:43] schestowitz " [17:44] schestowitz Stella Moris is a fraud and why NOBODY has ever heard Julian Assange say he loves her. His friends says she was his gopher. She FAKED pregnancy & portrait photos. The kids are stolen CIA MKUltra victims. [17:44] schestowitz FULL STORY: http://StellaMoris.com [17:44] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes- ( status 404 @ https://m.facebook.com/nt/screen/?params=%7B%22note_id%22%3A818888355514382%7D&path=%2Fnotes%2F&refsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com%2Fnotes%2Fchristine-ann-sands%2Fexamining-julian-assanges-sex-life-and-stella-moris%2F2620942221362077%2F&_rdr ) [17:44] schestowitz #Assange #JulianAssange #WikiLeaks [17:44] schestowitz " ● Nov 11 [18:15] schestowitz https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25027296 [18:15] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-news.ycombinator.com | Large Corporations Arent Going to Save the Real Linux Community | Hacker News [18:15] schestowitz fxtentacle 2 days ago [] [18:15] schestowitz I'm not surprised that these open source communities are dying. They were founded based on the ideals of free speech and selfless sharing of technology. Both of these ideals are dying. [18:15] schestowitz The GNU project makes it very clear that they are striving for the freedom of the user to modify and adapt the software that they use. So every time a GNU tool is used in the private back-end part of a SaaS webapp, that's directly opposite to the spirit of the GNU project, because you, the end user, have no way of modifying said SaaS. [18:15] schestowitz And it's not only free speech in source code, it appears to me that free speech in general is under attack, now that people have noticed that a twitter storm and a supposed code of conduct violation is enough to wield immense power, for example by destroying someone's reputation, job, and life. We have effectively handed loaded guns to random strangers on the internet and, predictably, the results were bad. [18:15] schestowitz The spirit of selfless sharing is also dying quickly, which I would blame onto the greed of internet startups and onto the entitlement of users that don't understand that GMail isn't truly free, just because there's no credit card charge. [18:15] schestowitz I myself try to stay away from open source nowadays, because it ruins my mood if I get an entitled email from some random stranger who is insulting me because my free app did not solve his/her problem. In my case, a big company was kinda guilty in creating this problem, because they advocated my FOSS module on their homepage as if it was part of their expensive paid offering. So some of their customers feel like it's my duty to offer [18:15] schestowitz support... [18:15] schestowitz Also, I would be very hesitant to release anything valuable with LGPL or even GPL these days. Chances are, it'll become the next cool "service" that Amazon, Google, and Microsoft will offer in their clouds, and I as the author of the software actually providing the service, will get nothing. [18:15] schestowitz Case in point, one of my consulting clients is paying like $30,000 annually to Microsoft for hosted PostgreSQL. But apparently, re-selling PostgreSQL as a service with presumably millions in revenue is not enough for Microsoft to become an official sponsor... https://www.postgresql.org/about/sponsors/ [18:15] schestowitz reply [18:15] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-www.postgresql.org | PostgreSQL: Sponsors [18:15] schestowitz [18:15] schestowitz [18:15] schestowitz sandworm101 2 days ago [] [18:15] schestowitz Open source software is dying because software is dying. Once upon a time people lines up for hours to get the latest software. Boxes were and CDs were proudly displayed on office shelves. But software isn't the hot thing. Services are king. Facebook and youtube aren't software. TikTok isn't software. They are services and services are much harder to open source. [18:15] schestowitz There are a few. Tor and Signal are good examples. They are software that enables an underlying service. So they get attention. People want to contribute. Imho if F/OSS wants to thrive it has to focus on those projects that provide services that people can proudly say that they use and to which they can proudly contribute time and energy. [18:15] schestowitz reply [18:15] schestowitz [18:15] schestowitz [18:15] schestowitz fxtentacle 2 days ago [] [18:15] schestowitz Thank you for bringing up a new angle that I hadn't considered before :) [18:15] schestowitz Yes, we should look into how one can adapt the "free speech" open source spirit to work for services. [18:16] schestowitz reply [18:16] schestowitz [18:16] schestowitz [18:16] schestowitz clankyclanker 2 days ago [] [18:16] schestowitz Self-hosting. Otherwise youre forever limited to whatever the service providers understaffed moderation team translated from the corporate email and plugged into the filters this afternoon. [18:16] schestowitz reply [18:16] schestowitz [18:16] schestowitz [18:16] schestowitz fxtentacle 2 days ago [] [18:16] schestowitz While self-hosting is a good option for us developers, I'm pretty sure that most normal people will not do it. So to reach the critical mass needed to make an open source project financially viable, I don't think we can rely on self-hosting. [18:16] schestowitz reply [18:16] schestowitz [18:16] schestowitz [18:16] schestowitz clankyclanker 2 days ago [] [18:16] schestowitz Youre not wrong, but since service providers control what happens on their servers, and have no obligation to allow any particular speech, then self-hosting (or its close cousin, federation) are the only ways to assert publication control of your own posts. [18:16] schestowitz > look into how one can adapt the "free speech" open source spirit to work for services [18:16] schestowitz Unless you want to treat service providers as public utilities, which isnt necessarily a bad idea, just an uphill battle. [18:16] schestowitz reply [18:16] schestowitz [18:16] schestowitz [18:16] schestowitz teruakohatu 2 days ago [] [18:16] schestowitz > Signal are good examples. [18:16] schestowitz Is Signal a good example? It is not federated and you can't connect to an alternative server from the Signal client. When I use signal I feel like I am using a free service. [18:16] schestowitz reply [18:16] schestowitz [18:16] schestowitz [18:16] schestowitz croh 2 days ago [] [18:16] schestowitz well there are many services people use proudly. Previously authors of opensource projects used to run consultancy for their softwares. But now days, many such projects get ported to public cloud in no time. So for these projects, public cloud providers are only (direct) customers. [18:16] schestowitz IT IS TIME TO UPDATE YOUR LISCENSE TO ADDRESS PUBLIC CLOUD PROVIDERS else sooner or later open souce gonna die [18:16] schestowitz reply [18:16] schestowitz [18:16] schestowitz [18:16] schestowitz disown 2 days ago [] [18:16] schestowitz We seem to be slowly moving from an ownership model to a subscription model where you pay "rent" with money or data. Not just software but hardware as well. How long before smartphones are simply fused shut preventing you from opening it and you have to return the smartphone before upgrading to another. [18:16] schestowitz reply [18:16] schestowitz [18:16] schestowitz [18:16] schestowitz ghaff 2 days ago [] [18:16] schestowitz That's a somewhat consumer-centric view of the software world. But it's true that, even in business, there is something of a shift towards managed services vs. on-prem software. [18:16] schestowitz reply [18:17] schestowitz [18:17] schestowitz [18:17] schestowitz josephcsible 2 days ago [] [18:17] schestowitz > The GNU project makes it very clear that they are striving for the freedom of the user to modify and adapt the software that they use. So every time a GNU tool is used in the private back-end part of a SaaS webapp, that's directly opposite to the spirit of the GNU project, because you, the end user, have no way of modifying said SaaS. [18:17] schestowitz > Also, I would be very hesitant to release anything valuable with LGPL or even GPL these days. [18:17] schestowitz The point of the AGPL is to close the loophole that allows this abuse. Just switch to it for your own projects. [18:17] schestowitz reply [18:17] schestowitz [18:17] schestowitz [18:17] schestowitz fxtentacle 2 days ago [] [18:17] schestowitz As far as I understand, the AGPL still allows a service provider to use an unmodified binary internally, as long as the user of that service never accesses it directly. If my understanding is correct, that means if GNU were to switch to AGPL, it wouldn't help the users of SaaS webapps that internally use GNU tools at all. [18:17] schestowitz reply [18:17] schestowitz [18:17] schestowitz [18:17] schestowitz MaxBarraclough 2 days ago [] [18:17] schestowitz The point of the AGPL is to require sharing of modifications to the software when that software is used in a service. If you're using an unmodified binary, then you haven't made any changes to the software. You won't be obligated to share changes if the changes don't exist, so you could use the unmodified binary internally or externally. [18:17] schestowitz The AGPLv3 has a lot to say about patents, which is enough to scare off many companies from software that uses the AGPLv3, but I believe it won't be triggered if you never make any changes in the first place (and are therefore presumably not a 'contributor'). [18:17] schestowitz AGPLv3: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/agpl-3.0.en.html [18:17] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-www.gnu.org | GNU Affero General Public License - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation [18:17] schestowitz See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affero_General_Public_License , https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/1078... [18:17] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-en.wikipedia.org | Affero General Public License - Wikipedia [18:17] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes- ( status 404 @ https://softwareengineering.stackexchange.com/questions/1022/is-it-possible-for-apple-to-make-a-desktop-computer-based-on-the-iphone-cpu/1078#1078 ) [18:17] schestowitz reply [18:17] schestowitz [18:17] schestowitz [18:17] schestowitz pessimizer 2 days ago [] [18:17] schestowitz If the webapps themselves use AGPL software, that's not "internally." If the employees of a SaaS company themselves use AGPL software that isn't linked to the service that users access, that's internally; e.g. if a webapp uses an AGPL database, the users are accessing that database. [18:17] schestowitz reply [18:17] schestowitz [18:17] schestowitz [18:17] schestowitz fxtentacle 2 days ago [] [18:17] schestowitz I'd say using an AGPL tool as a service for your webapp is this scenario: [18:17] schestowitz "Scenario 1: Using an unmodified AGPL binary" https://medium.com/swlh/understanding-the-agpl-the-most-misu... [18:17] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-medium.com | Medium [18:17] schestowitz which seems to be allowed by AGPL without disclosing source code. [18:17] schestowitz reply [18:17] schestowitz [18:17] schestowitz [18:17] schestowitz ghaff 2 days ago [] [18:17] schestowitz The details are somewhat unclear but basically yes, that's what a cloud provider/SaaS company would probably assume. So they probably just won't use AGPL code and if they do want to offer a service with the same APIs, they can (at least for now) recreate a compatible service that they write themselves. [18:17] schestowitz reply [18:17] schestowitz [18:17] schestowitz [18:17] schestowitz ianai 2 days ago [] [18:18] schestowitz Just myself, I saw an increase in FOSS activity seemingly due to the Great Recession leaving so many unemployed. People had so much time on their hands that contributing to a FOSS project made sense for all sorts of reasons. After years of recovery, people are (were?) back employed and dont have such time on their hands. [18:18] schestowitz FOSS is pretty interesting as a way for otherwise non-cooperatives to make something useful together. Also seems like something similar to academics. Unfortunately, our economic system might force it to be a fluke. [18:18] schestowitz reply [18:18] schestowitz [18:18] schestowitz [18:18] schestowitz jmclnx 2 days ago [] [18:18] schestowitz Yes I agree with this, and in reality nothing really stopping Companies from abusing the GPL, notice how almost all corporations avoid GPLv3 like the plague. [18:18] schestowitz (edit, I meant easy to abuse GPL2, but GPL3 ias hard to abuse) [18:18] schestowitz Personality I believe the final nail was the "coup" at the FSF with RMS. He could be a pain at times, but almost all his fears about the future of computing is slowly coming true. [18:18] schestowitz reply [18:18] schestowitz [18:18] schestowitz [18:18] schestowitz bigbubba 2 days ago [] [18:18] schestowitz I'd say GPLv3 avoidance demonstrates respect[fear] of the license, not abuse of it. To abuse it would be to use that software while not respecting the terms of the license. [18:18] schestowitz reply [18:18] schestowitz [18:18] schestowitz [18:18] schestowitz jmclnx 2 days ago [] [18:18] schestowitz I missed pointing out GPL2 is rather easy to abuse, i edited my original post. [18:18] schestowitz Yes, Large Companies is scared of the GPL3 and we are told specifically never use any GPL3 software where I work :) [18:18] schestowitz reply [18:18] schestowitz [18:18] schestowitz [18:18] schestowitz fxtentacle 2 days ago [] [18:18] schestowitz Like CISCO, Gigabyte, D-Link, NETGEAR, AVM, FANTEC, Iliad, ... [18:18] schestowitz https://gpl-violations.org/news/ [18:18] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-gpl-violations.org | gpl-violations.org [18:18] schestowitz reply [18:18] schestowitz [18:18] schestowitz [18:18] schestowitz ghaff 2 days ago [] [18:18] schestowitz GPLv2 vs. v3 seems to be more a matter of inertia. Yes, a few have concerns about the TiVo-ization language. But a lot of it is that projects like Linux were already under GPLv2 and Linus wasn't interested in changing--and, absent copyright assignment, doing so would have been at least somewhat controversial and would necessarily rely on legal theories not everyone would have been on board with. [18:18] schestowitz reply [18:18] schestowitz [18:18] schestowitz [18:18] schestowitz 533474 2 days ago [] [18:18] schestowitz RMS was right and the community is afraid to admit it [18:18] schestowitz reply [18:18] schestowitz [18:18] schestowitz [18:18] schestowitz jodrellblank 2 days ago [] [18:19] schestowitz > "It ruins my mood if I get an entitled email from some random stranger who is insulting me because my free app did not solve his/her problem [...] apparently, re-selling PostgreSQL as a service with presumably millions in revenue is not enough for Microsoft to become an official sponsor." [18:19] schestowitz Aren't these part of the freedoms of speech and behaviour you were enthusing about a couple of sentences ago? And your freedom to stay away from open source is part of it, too? [18:19] schestowitz "Open source with an ideal of freedom, where the users (corporate and personal) behave exactly how you want" sounds contradictory. [18:19] schestowitz (Curious, are you happy that Microsoft is part of the Linux Foundation? Or do you see that as them exerting unwanted influence?) [18:19] schestowitz reply [18:19] schestowitz [18:19] schestowitz [18:19] schestowitz mixmastamyk 2 days ago [] [18:19] schestowitz Seems unnecessarily pessimistic. Just because there are a few rude looney folks out there doesnt mean there isnt an opportunity to make money. Gracious but firm negotiating can get you farther than simply giving up. [18:19] schestowitz Of course it depends on the market value of the work. [18:19] schestowitz reply [18:19] schestowitz [18:19] schestowitz [18:19] schestowitz greatgib 2 days ago [] [18:19] schestowitz From my point of view, the open source and free software succeeded and went to it's apogee. But now, as noticed by this article, companies noticed that they could make a lot of money with that, and so there is a corporate take over of companies that don't have the core values but see the marketing interest of the oss. [18:19] schestowitz So, little by little they used their money to get control of the main oss software/stacks and impose their flawed values. Look at npmjs, github bought by Microsoft, the Linux community that is now mostly corporate, os like Ubuntu, shitty tools like docker and mongodb and co... [18:19] schestowitz reply [18:19] schestowitz [18:19] schestowitz [18:19] schestowitz game_the0ry 2 days ago [] [18:19] schestowitz Who ever assumed corporations were going to save the Linux community? [18:19] schestowitz reply [18:19] schestowitz [18:19] schestowitz [18:19] schestowitz phkahler 2 days ago [] [18:19] schestowitz All the people who think VScode on Linux is great, and think it's nice that MS money backing github is not risky, and that WSL is cool and we should let them bring DirextX to Linux too. [18:19] schestowitz In isolation any of those could be cool, but some see the totality of it as awesome rather than a full assault. [18:19] schestowitz reply [18:19] schestowitz [18:19] schestowitz [18:19] schestowitz disown 2 days ago [] [18:19] schestowitz Even worse, if you mention the "telemetry" in VSCode, you get a PR barrage of downvotes and comments saying it's "optional" and Microsoft isn't like facebook and they don't depend on data. Nevermind that data is the direction nadella wants to take microsoft - free windows 10, linkedin, github, etc. [18:19] schestowitz The "love" you see for microsoft, gates, etc here is bizarre. [18:19] schestowitz reply [18:19] schestowitz [18:19] schestowitz [18:19] schestowitz nip180 2 days ago [] [18:19] schestowitz > we should let them bring DirextX to Linux too. [18:19] schestowitz The thing I like about open source is that you dont need to ask permission to modify, expand, or target. Still, I would never run DirectX on my computers. [18:19] schestowitz reply [18:20] schestowitz [18:20] schestowitz [18:20] schestowitz qz2 2 days ago [] [18:20] schestowitz You forgot PowerShell and SQL Server. [18:20] schestowitz This whole situation makes me feel a little sick if I'm honest. It's ok to have platforms, but it's not ok to blur the lines because everyone needs an exit plan. [18:20] schestowitz reply [18:20] schestowitz [18:20] schestowitz [18:20] schestowitz phkahler 2 days ago [] [18:20] schestowitz I also forgot .net [18:20] schestowitz reply [18:20] schestowitz [18:20] schestowitz [18:20] schestowitz bigbubba 2 days ago [] [18:20] schestowitz There seem to be some such people in this very discussion who think corporations might. [18:20] schestowitz reply [18:20] schestowitz [18:20] schestowitz [18:20] schestowitz fomine3 2 days ago [] [18:20] schestowitz Red Hat is exceptional. [18:20] schestowitz reply [18:20] schestowitz [18:20] schestowitz [18:20] schestowitz naveen99 2 days ago [] [18:20] schestowitz Pytorch and matplotlib managed to unseat matlab, which I didnt think would ever happen. [18:20] schestowitz Bitcoin, git are open source. [18:20] schestowitz docker, kubernetes will just add a level of abstraction over any proprietary os. [18:20] schestowitz Things are not so bad! [18:20] schestowitz reply [18:20] schestowitz [18:20] schestowitz [18:20] schestowitz fxtentacle 2 days ago [] [18:20] schestowitz "Pytorch and matplotlib managed to unseat matlab" [18:20] schestowitz From what I know, most companies use MATLAB for real-time simulation or its VHDL code generation, which means you can put your algorithms into FPGA with relative ease. I don't see Pytorch helping there anytime soon. [18:20] schestowitz That said, I agree with you that a lot of mathematical computing is moving to Python, especially now that there's multiple frameworks with GPU support. And yes, that's a great development :) [18:20] schestowitz reply [18:20] schestowitz [18:20] schestowitz [18:20] schestowitz StillBored 2 days ago [] [18:20] schestowitz I came here to say something similar, but with a different industry. None of the people/groups I know using matlab have moved to pytorch, or even gnu octave which is a much closer fit. [18:21] schestowitz Because its not really about matlab so much has the huge collection of library/extensions for matlab or its close relationship to simulink. Decades of industry specific modeling/simulation/tooling built into peoples workflows are hard to change. [18:21] schestowitz If you look at the "applications" section here https://www.mathworks.com/products.html?s_tid=gn_ps pytorch really only touches on a couple of them AFAIK. [18:21] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-www.mathworks.com | Products and Services - MATLAB & Simulink [18:21] schestowitz Deep engineering tooling is one of the places where opensource really hasn't yet made inroads. From the lack of a good solidworks/cad toolchain to the modeling/simulation space. Even EDA remains deeply dependent on proprietary tooling despite the recent success in a number of places. So while board level design with kicad may start eating into the Altium space now that its beginning to get RF/etc capabilities. I don't see it biting into [18:21] schestowitz the cadence/synopsis/mentor space anytime in the near future if ever due to the secrecy of the foundries. [18:21] schestowitz I think a large part of that is there is a lot of breath in this space, and the customer base is generally quite small. [18:21] schestowitz So I think a good opensource PCB layout/modeling tool, and a decent parametric 3d cad program will happen a lot sooner. [18:21] schestowitz reply [18:21] schestowitz [18:21] schestowitz [18:21] schestowitz im3w1l 2 days ago [] [18:21] schestowitz Whoa, matlab has vhdl? I never knew, that's cool. [18:21] schestowitz reply [18:21] schestowitz [18:21] schestowitz [18:21] schestowitz amelius 2 days ago [] [18:21] schestowitz So, we need an open source license that makes the software not free for large corporations (say > $10M revenue). [18:21] schestowitz reply [18:21] schestowitz [18:21] schestowitz [18:21] schestowitz orlandohill 2 days ago [] [18:21] schestowitz Check out the Polyform Project's Small Business License. It has a threshold of 100 employees and contractors, and 1,000,000 USD in annual revenue. [18:21] schestowitz Of course, the OSI's Open Source Definition precludes these kinds of restrictions, so it isn't "open source" by that definition. [18:21] schestowitz https://polyformproject.org/licenses/small-business/1.0.0/ [18:21] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-polyformproject.org | PolyForm Small Business License 1.0.0 Polyform Project [18:21] schestowitz reply [18:21] schestowitz [18:21] schestowitz [18:21] schestowitz amelius 2 days ago [] [18:21] schestowitz > Of course, the OSI's Open Source Definition precludes these kinds of restrictions, so isn't "open source". [18:21] schestowitz One would almost think there are some large corporations behind that organization and its definitions ... [18:21] schestowitz reply [18:21] schestowitz [18:21] schestowitz [18:21] schestowitz bni 2 days ago [] [18:21] schestowitz Actually these kinds of restrictions have always made the software "non-free" all the way back since GNU. Long before any large corps got involved. [18:21] schestowitz OSS inherited this and was always very clear with it also. [18:21] schestowitz reply [18:21] schestowitz [18:21] schestowitz [18:21] schestowitz fxtentacle 2 days ago [] [18:21] schestowitz I believe we need a way to charge companies of any size for the value that they generate out of using open source tools as part of their SaaS, PaaS, IaaS, etc. offering. If your cloud makes money by hosting an open source project as a service, that open source project should be entitled to a share of the revenue. [18:22] schestowitz And, actually, we already have something quite similar, but I predict it won't fly with open source communities, most of which hate it unequivocally: [18:22] schestowitz patents [18:22] schestowitz reply [18:22] schestowitz [18:22] schestowitz [18:22] schestowitz amelius 2 days ago [] [18:22] schestowitz Patents are broken. But they can perhaps be fixed by effectuating a challenge-period after a patent application starts, whereby the patent can be invalidated if someone comes up with an implementation. Also there should be better protection against trolling, for example by requiring the holder of the patent to have a product implementing that patent. Further, a patent should not provide a strict monopoly on the technology for a given [18:22] schestowitz period (blocking competitors), but the rules should be so that anyone can buy a license for a reasonable price. [18:22] schestowitz reply [18:22] schestowitz [18:22] schestowitz [18:22] schestowitz phkahler 2 days ago [] [18:22] schestowitz Dual license: AGPL and commercial. Simple. [18:22] schestowitz reply [18:22] schestowitz [18:22] schestowitz [18:22] schestowitz im3w1l 2 days ago [] [18:22] schestowitz AGPL requires you to disclose any changes to the source you make to an SaaS. But it allows making money. [18:22] schestowitz If you want to disallow making money you have to use an even stricter license. [18:22] schestowitz reply [18:22] schestowitz [18:22] schestowitz [18:22] schestowitz phkahler 2 days ago [] [18:22] schestowitz No free license disallows making money. But the requirement for making source code available means people dont need to pay. [18:22] schestowitz To make money you need to offer something more than just one program. Adding value outside the code itself is viable. [18:22] schestowitz reply [18:22] schestowitz [18:22] schestowitz [18:22] schestowitz im3w1l 2 days ago [] [18:22] schestowitz The issue with patents was that they were used for silly landgrabbing of obvious stuff and locking them up for a long time. [18:22] schestowitz Now that things have matured a bit, I think 5-10 year long patents would be perfectly healthy. [18:22] schestowitz reply [18:22] schestowitz [18:22] schestowitz [18:22] schestowitz bigbubba 2 days ago [] [18:22] schestowitz AGPLv3 isn't precisely that, but it may as well be since it scares corporations like Google shitless. [18:22] schestowitz reply [18:22] schestowitz [18:22] schestowitz [18:22] schestowitz fxtentacle 2 days ago [] [18:23] schestowitz I disagree. The AGPL would still allow someone to rake in millions without sharing if they run an unmodified binary of an open source project. [18:23] schestowitz https://medium.com/swlh/understanding-the-agpl-the-most-misu... [18:23] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-medium.com | Medium [18:23] schestowitz reply [18:23] schestowitz [18:23] schestowitz [18:23] schestowitz Glanford 2 days ago [] [18:23] schestowitz While that is a problem it's a fairly harmless one to have, the company can't profit any more off of your work than anybody else can and you're not really losing anything by the company doing this. Contrast this to using the GPL where companies can effectively treat your code as proprietary and profit immensely off of it at the expense of everybody else who publicly contribute to your work but don't receive any kickbacks from big [18:23] schestowitz companies. [18:23] schestowitz reply [18:23] schestowitz [18:23] schestowitz [18:23] schestowitz bigbubba 2 days ago [] [18:23] schestowitz That's why I say it's not precisely the license requested. But if your aim is to scare off corporations, it works pretty well. [18:23] schestowitz reply [18:23] schestowitz [18:23] schestowitz [18:23] schestowitz amelius 2 days ago [] [18:23] schestowitz But we don't want to scare large corporations. Instead, we want them to financially support the development of open source projects ... [18:23] schestowitz reply [18:23] schestowitz [18:23] schestowitz [18:23] schestowitz bigbubba 2 days ago [] [18:23] schestowitz Not 'we'. [18:23] schestowitz reply [18:23] schestowitz [18:23] schestowitz [18:23] schestowitz ghaff 2 days ago [] [18:23] schestowitz You can write any license you want and claim it's an open source license. It won't be OSI approved of course and, you almost certainly won't build a meaningful community around it but there's nothing keeping you from creating one. [18:23] schestowitz reply [18:23] schestowitz [18:23] schestowitz [18:23] schestowitz petra 2 days ago [] [18:23] schestowitz Why won't you build any meaningful community ? If you only charge from big companies , why does it matter for some lone developer? [18:23] schestowitz And as for big companies , as long as there's decent value and reasonable fees, why won't they contribute(to also help themselves) ? [18:23] schestowitz reply [18:23] schestowitz [18:23] schestowitz [18:23] schestowitz ghaff 2 days ago [] [18:23] schestowitz Many big companies (especially vendors) do contribute with people and otherwise--because, as you say, it does often help themselves--and most significant developers of major open source projects are doing it as part of their day job. [18:23] schestowitz There's a long history of licenses in the PC freeware/shareware space of being only for personal use/educational use/etc. That usage-based restrictions did not make it into the FOSS world is an important reason that it's been so successful IMO. [18:24] schestowitz reply [18:24] schestowitz [18:24] schestowitz [18:24] schestowitz amelius 2 days ago [] [18:24] schestowitz But what if I could pay members of the community using profit made from selling licenses to corporations? [18:24] schestowitz reply [18:24] schestowitz [18:24] schestowitz [18:24] schestowitz SpicyLemonZest 2 days ago [] [18:24] schestowitz I hate to be flippant, but that's a well-known business model called "contracting". It's possible, absolutely, but it requires a substantial investment of time and effort in business concerns on top of the actual software development. In practice, most leaders of contracting businesses don't have time to write code, and most contracting businesses end up deciding they need to release closed-source extensions. [18:24] schestowitz reply [18:24] schestowitz [18:24] schestowitz [18:24] schestowitz amelius 2 days ago [] [18:24] schestowitz How would e.g. Mozilla fit in that view? [18:24] schestowitz reply [18:24] schestowitz [18:24] schestowitz [18:24] schestowitz SpicyLemonZest 2 days ago [] [18:24] schestowitz As far as I know Mozilla doesn't sell any software licenses. They were almost entirely subsidized by Netscape from 1998 to 2003, then by Google from 2005 to 2014, and by a variety of search engines competing for Firefox default status since then. That kind of "cash cow" model gives you a lot more organizational freedom than software licensing. [18:24] schestowitz reply [18:24] schestowitz [18:24] schestowitz [18:24] schestowitz finnthehuman 2 days ago [] [18:24] schestowitz Then you've re-invented being a software vendor that can't even pay it's developers reliably? [18:24] schestowitz reply [18:24] schestowitz [18:24] schestowitz [18:24] schestowitz amelius 2 days ago [] [18:24] schestowitz Why not reliably? [18:24] schestowitz And why would you compare it to a regular software "vendor" when it produces free open software for 99.9% of the people, and non-free open software for 0.1% which are large corporations? [18:24] schestowitz reply [18:24] schestowitz [18:24] schestowitz [18:24] schestowitz phkahler 2 days ago [] [18:24] schestowitz AGPL will prevent them from using it for SaaS. A dual license will then force them to pay creators. [18:24] schestowitz If they are otherwise "selling" GPLed software that's kind of on the buyer to notice they dont need BigCorp to use it. [18:24] schestowitz reply [18:24] schestowitz [18:24] schestowitz [18:25] schestowitz bawolff 2 days ago [] [18:25] schestowitz So in essence a closed source license. [18:25] schestowitz Part 6 of the osi definition is: "No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor" [18:25] schestowitz reply [18:25] schestowitz [18:25] schestowitz [18:25] schestowitz amelius 2 days ago [] [18:25] schestowitz That's the OSI definition. Not everyone may agree on that definition especially as views change. Only one thing everyone agrees on is that "open source" is software for which the source code is published, and an "open source license" is a license attached to such software. This is not an extermely useful definition as far as the license is concerned, so if you want to be more specific you (and OSI) have to use more specific terms [18:25] schestowitz instead of the broad term "open source". [18:25] schestowitz reply [18:25] schestowitz [18:25] schestowitz [18:25] schestowitz bawolff 2 days ago [] [18:25] schestowitz I disagree, otherwise we end up down in the rabbit hole of things like microsoft's "shared source" BS. Where terms loose meaning. [18:25] schestowitz Its not just OSI either, its just most explicit there. This idea is also incompatible with DFSG and FSF definitions. It simply isn't FOSS to have license terms only apply to people you like. Either its Free for everyone or you are making glorified shareware/freeware. [18:25] schestowitz reply [18:25] schestowitz [18:25] schestowitz [18:25] schestowitz drummer 2 days ago [] [18:25] schestowitz > WHEN the Linux Foundation (LF) let Microsoft in about 4 years ago we knew it was the beginning of the end [18:25] schestowitz The good thing is that they knew. Now they hopefully will rush to regroup in a new setting before it is too late. [18:25] schestowitz " ● Nov 11 [19:12] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [19:13] *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [19:13] *rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techbytes [19:13] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techbytes ● Nov 11 [20:50] *GNUmoon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) ● Nov 11 [21:07] *rianne_ has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) [21:07] *liberty_box has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [21:13] *rianne_ (~rianne@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techbytes [21:16] *liberty_box (~liberty@host81-154-173-112.range81-154.btcentralplus.com) has joined #techbytes [21:34] -tomaw-:[Global Notice] Hi all. We need to reroute a lot of our servers away from a hub that's being retired so you'll see lots of split for a while. It should be fairly brief though. 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https://placeholderapi.wordpress.com/2020/11/11/adobe-proprietarysoftware-crap-in-planet-kde-https-rajeeshk/#comment-17015 [22:27] -TechBytesBot/#techbytes-placeholderapi.wordpress.com | #adobe #ProprietarySoftware crap in Planet #kde :/ https://rajeeshk | Dr. Roy Schestowitz () [22:27] schestowitz "The post is more about libre software (HarfBuzz and world script fonts) than proprietary software. But you are right, it shouldnt have been placed on Planet KDE. Ill try to set up a filter." [22:27] schestowitz Sorry if my message sounded too strong (not intended) gemini://gemini.techrights.org/tr_text_version/irc-log-techbytes-111120.txt

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