-- Leo's gemini proxy
-- Connecting to gemini.techrights.org:1965...
-- Connected
-- Sending request
-- Meta line: 20 text/gemini;lang=en-GB
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03:31 schestowitz__[TR]; seems not only lagrange but also proxies don't like how "smart" quotes are done in the capsule ("Googles") https://gemini.susa.net:1993/cgi-bin/Proxy.sh?url=gemini%3A%2F%2Fnews.tuxmachines.org%2Fn%2F2022%2F08%2F24%2FVideos_and_Shows_Privacy_Massive_Wiki_Manjaro_and_Linux_Mint.gmi https://gemini.susa.net:1993/cgi-bin/Proxy.sh?url=gemini%3A%2F%2Fnews.tuxmachines.org%2Fn%2F2022%2F08%2F24%2FVideos_and_Shows_Privacy_Massive_Wiki_Manjaro_
03:31 schestowitz__[TR]; and_Linux_Mint.gmi
03:31 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-Missing content type. Ignoring.
03:31 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-Missing content type. Ignoring.
05:51 schestowitz-TR2; gm
05:51 schestowitz-TR2; sorry to have added another item (above), it's not so important, just related to something you said you could not reproduce in amfora
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08:43 Techrights-sec; checking
08:43 Techrights-sec; that's getting added somewhere after the page leaves our capsule so there's
08:43 Techrights-sec; not much to do except file bug reports
08:43 Techrights-sec; wait, there is a bug with that part ofthe UTF-8 again
08:43 Techrights-sec; It's in the db ok, so that's good.
08:43 Techrights-sec; fixed, I think.
08:43 Techrights-sec; thanks for spotting that!
08:46 schestowitz-TR2; back
08:46 schestowitz-TR2; rianne worked yesterday
08:46 schestowitz-TR2; so we celebrate her bday today, instead
08:46 schestowitz-TR2; 44th
08:46 schestowitz-TR2; looks likle the utf-8 bug is solved :-)
08:46 schestowitz-TR2; I'll try to find something to add in html
08:46 Techrights-sec; ok contratulations on her birthday observed
08:47 Techrights-sec; ack
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08:57 schestowitz-TR2; I've just done a pair of tests
08:57 schestowitz-TR2; with LWN and ItsFOSS the title="" part gets champed away
08:57 schestowitz-TR2; *chomped
08:57 schestowitz-TR2; the test with Red Hat is still there, but I don't know how to reproduce it
09:02 Techrights-sec; checking
09:02 Techrights-sec; as mentioned the other day there are just over 1000 hosts/domains which are
09:02 Techrights-sec; in TM but not in TR. For this to work, the lookup table in the module
09:02 Techrights-sec; TuxMachines::ReadOn has to be filled it prior to addng or updating a post
09:02 Techrights-sec; It's not feasible in this work flow to have the usual refresh scripts
09:02 Techrights-sec; modify the bodies of the posts so if retroactive application is needed, a
09:02 Techrights-sec; new script would be needed. Can you check /usr/local/lib/perl5/TuxMachines/
09:02 Techrights-sec; for ReadOn.pm and make sure the sites in the lookup table are there? I've not
09:03 Techrights-sec; had time to slog through all 1000.
09:03 schestowitz-TR2; both sites are missing from that list
09:03 schestowitz-TR2; so it seems not like a bug after all
09:03 schestowitz-TR2; I could go through the list in camelcase, splitting side the less political and more political domains
09:08 Techrights-sec; yes, but there are still the 1000 unkown sites from TM
09:08 Techrights-sec; a different workflow is needed I think
09:14 Techrights-sec; what might be an idea would be to have the add and update scripts make
09:14 Techrights-sec; a list of unknown sites and then manually process them as a batch every
09:14 Techrights-sec; few days with some kind of retroactive editing (by script) of the existing
09:14 Techrights-sec; posts. Ideas?
09:14 Techrights-sec; The steps would be
09:14 Techrights-sec; 1) check the list every few days
09:14 Techrights-sec; 2) edit ReadOn.pm
09:14 Techrights-sec; 3) check the changes into Git
09:14 Techrights-sec; 4) check out into the mirror
09:14 Techrights-sec; 5) copy manually from the mirror to /usr/local/lib/perl5/
09:14 Techrights-sec; 6) manually run the retrofit script
09:14 Techrights-sec; But several of those steps are quite time consuming, at least in regards to
09:14 Techrights-sec; the amount of attention they require to do right
09:15 schestowitz-TR2; how about a somewhat backwards approach?
09:15 schestowitz-TR2; when I add a domain not in the list
09:15 schestowitz-TR2; I then add it to the list fiorst
09:15 schestowitz-TR2; and from the pm file it'll perdiodically get pushed to git?
09:15 schestowitz-TR2; sooner or later all the still-active sites will have an entry
09:15 schestowitz-TR2; in the next 1q0 years we may add 150,000 stories
09:15 schestowitz-TR2; but likely from less than 1000 domains
09:16 Techrights-sec; then steps 2-6 apply still
09:18 schestowitz-TR2; how did you selct the subset for ReadOn.pm? If scanning the list takes less than a second, then we can join with CamelCase
09:18 schestowitz-TR2; and then keep them synchronised periodically
09:18 schestowitz-TR2; by merging
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09:24 schestowitz-TR2; there is another possibility
09:24 schestowitz-TR2; I can scan camelcase at my end
09:24 schestowitz-TR2; if I find a match, it'll add it automatically
09:24 schestowitz-TR2; and then the server side will be a second pass or one that's applicable to a submitted who is not me (usually rianne)
09:26 Techrights-sec; I ran a link extractor over all the files in the document root at tm-new
09:26 Techrights-sec; Synchronizing with the TR git repository:
09:26 Techrights-sec; 0) re-synchronize
09:26 Techrights-sec; 1) check the list every few days
09:26 Techrights-sec; 2) edit ReadOn.pm
09:26 Techrights-sec; 3) check the changes into Git
09:26 Techrights-sec; 4) check out into the mirror
09:26 Techrights-sec; 5) copy manually from the mirror to /usr/local/lib/perl5/
09:26 Techrights-sec; 6) manually run the retrofit script
09:26 Techrights-sec; the hard parts are steps 2 through 6
09:26 Techrights-sec; or at least 2 through 5
09:26 Techrights-sec; there's almost no crossover between the two sets so it is going to be
09:26 Techrights-sec; unproductive to spend time on synching since it is more effort than just
09:26 Techrights-sec; editing the two unrelated sets independently
09:39 Techrights-sec; it would not be difficult to log the missing sites as they are found
09:39 Techrights-sec; by either the update or the add script; the work comes in when the log
09:39 Techrights-sec; is processed and the sites are added to the module's lookup table
09:39 Techrights-sec; that's three or four steps, of necessity
09:41 schestowitz-TR2; yes, that migth work better
09:41 schestowitz-TR2; I've just added some more pages
09:41 schestowitz-TR2; days ago I added many video channels to my rss feeds
09:41 schestowitz-TR2; I think video will be a growing thing, even if not in googletube
09:41 schestowitz-TR2; at least with gulag I have a proxy and can embed with seek time to skip nonsense
09:53 Techrights-sec; ack
09:54 schestowitz-TR2; would it speed up the process if I manually add title for now?
09:54 Techrights-sec; it depends, is it faster (over time) to add titles manually or
09:54 Techrights-sec; to do steps 1 - 6 above (over time) ?
09:56 schestowitz-TR2; I think combining both?
09:56 schestowitz-TR2; we add 30-50 pages per day, I don't think it'll slow down
09:56 schestowitz-TR2; with a TM capsule we might even add a section specific to gemini protocol at some point
09:56 Techrights-sec; ack
09:58 schestowitz-TR2; If I understand correctly, ReadOn.pm will override anything in title="" if a match is found
09:58 schestowitz-TR2; which is good
09:58 schestowitz-TR2; and if it is empty and no match is found, it removed title="" completely?
10:07 Techrights-sec; it should only create a title attribute if there is not one there or if
10:07 Techrights-sec; there is one but it is empty; perhaps it should not touch empty ones; they
10:07 Techrights-sec; might be empty on purpose
10:08 schestowitz-TR2; yes, I think this is the desirable behaviour
10:08 schestowitz-TR2; this way camelcase will be used only as a fallback
10:13 schestowitz-TR2; I wonder if it is worth extending to all lists, e.g. groups of links
10:13 schestowitz-TR2; a la techrights
10:13 schestowitz-TR2; it would not be hard
10:13 schestowitz-TR2; all it takes is scanning links in <li> and adding title if the domain is recognised
10:13 schestowitz-TR2; this already happens in techrights, with a different workflow
10:20 Techrights-sec; once the lookup table exists, the rest is not hard to automate, the bottleneck
10:20 Techrights-sec; is the maintenance of the lookup table
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10:31 Techrights-sec; ok
10:31 Techrights-sec; yes the large multinationals have a general desire to eliminate open protocols
10:31 Techrights-sec; and open formats; the WWW is the biggest PITA for them in that regard, it
10:31 Techrights-sec; has both HTML and HTTP; They don't care much about TLS since the certificate
10:31 Techrights-sec; hierarchy in browser and elsewhere has been successfully compromised
10:31 schestowitz-TR2; the media does a fine job making itself obsolete too
10:31 schestowitz-TR2; partly by failing to ever evolve
10:31 schestowitz-TR2; maybe because of managers there
10:31 schestowitz-TR2; or the VCs/hedge funds
10:33 schestowitz-TR2; how about this:
10:33 schestowitz-TR2; I will add some names manually from my end
10:33 schestowitz-TR2; let that pile up for a bit
10:33 schestowitz-TR2; then, at a later point
10:33 schestowitz-TR2; db -> fildump
10:33 schestowitz-TR2; grep reddon filedump | cut |sort | uniq
10:33 schestowitz-TR2; then you get a list of previously used domains and how they are described
10:33 schestowitz-TR2; aided in part at my end by camelcase
10:33 schestowitz-TR2; I can easily envision this going on for many years
10:33 schestowitz-TR2; in one porotocol/form or another
10:33 schestowitz-TR2; I think "apps" will throw www under the bus
10:33 schestowitz-TR2; gulag already tried, with amp
10:33 schestowitz-TR2; never mind spdy and js etc.
10:33 schestowitz-TR2; the media does a fine job making itself obsolete too
10:33 schestowitz-TR2; partly by failing to ever evolve
10:33 schestowitz-TR2; maybe because of managers there
10:33 schestowitz-TR2; or the VCs/hedge funds
10:41 mjg59_; spdy turned into http/2?
10:41 mjg59_; Unclear what the complaint is there
10:41 mjg59_; It's just a lower overhead mechanism for negotiating transfers
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11:03 Techrights-sec; I'm think the second navigation bar in TM can be redone but don;t have
11:03 Techrights-sec; a convenient way to demo the change.
11:04 schestowitz-TR2; the next/prev?
11:04 schestowitz-TR2; webp also
11:04 schestowitz-TR2; mjg59_: I know
11:04 schestowitz-TR2; that's not good
11:04 schestowitz-TR2; same for drm
11:04 schestowitz-TR2; making old browsersa not compatible
11:05 schestowitz-TR2; like they do with the CA cartel
11:05 schestowitz-TR2; they don't care about people with disabilities and the environment
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11:06 Techrights-sec; yes
11:07 schestowitz-TR2; I think we need some ways to lead to older days, e.g. from the same month, wherein there is an index for the day
11:07 schestowitz-TR2; this way nothing is close to being orphned
11:07 schestowitz-TR2; maybe button for "also today" "previous day" "next day"
11:09 Techrights-sec; Rather than having them in the center, as they are now, it would be possibly
11:09 Techrights-sec; and improvment to have them justified to the edges. That way one can
11:09 Techrights-sec; click forward or backward continuously without having to chase the links back
11:09 Techrights-sec; and forth across the line as they get longer or shorter. Right now if
11:09 Techrights-sec; prev / next has one short and one long and then one long and one short you have
11:09 Techrights-sec; a high risk of clicking on the wrong one
11:09 Techrights-sec; LI / UL will do the job
11:09 Techrights-sec; no table is needed
11:09 schestowitz-TR2; to set apart the arrows you might need deiv or table
11:09 schestowitz-TR2; table would be the 1990s style
11:10 mjg59_; 11:04 < schestowitz-TR2> making old browsersa not compatible
11:10 mjg59_; That seems like an argument for never improving a protocol ever
11:11 mjg59_; Unless we're willing to freeze development then inventing new things that work better does at some point mean that old things stop working
11:12 mjg59_; I'm not aware of anything that serves HTTP/2 but not HTTP/1.1 right now, and I suspect it's going to be a long time until that happens
11:13 mjg59_; But if it does, that's not an attack on old browsers! That's just progress, because people want to implement stuff that works better and will not spend all of their lives supporting stuff that hasn't been updated in over a decade
11:14 mjg59_; Otherwise you're getting into "Why doesn't Linux run on a 386 any more" territory
11:15 mjg59_; (A decision that was made by Linus)
11:19 schestowitz-TR2; btw, I have arindam's public key
11:19 schestowitz-TR2; but I don't think we tested enough yet
11:19 schestowitz-TR2; so that's on hold for now
11:19 schestowitz-TR2; like the image upload thing
11:20 schestowitz-TR2; 386 is VERY old
11:22 mjg59_; So is HTTP/1.1
11:27 schestowitz-TR2; in falkon, the rhs of the rhs arrow need a little more margins
11:27 schestowitz-TR2; it touches the borderline
11:27 schestowitz-TR2; but otherwise works well, as expected
11:27 schestowitz-TR2; I've added more styling to the readon button
11:30 Techrights-sec; checking
11:43 schestowitz-TR2; looks like you reverted back several changes
11:47 Techrights-sec; they're still in Git
11:47 Techrights-sec; Git has not been updated since I mentioned the above changed regarding the
11:47 Techrights-sec; navigation bar
11:47 Techrights-sec; push to git and then pull into the /var/www/tuxmachines.org/ hierarchy
11:49 schestowitz-TR2; I did that earlier after I had changed the css
11:49 schestowitz-TR2; adn then saw the changes to navigation, even in live
11:51 Techrights-sec; yes, I had tested them and was in the process of rollingthem out, but
11:51 Techrights-sec; had not pushed to Git yet from here
11:52 Techrights-sec; su -c 'cd /var/www/tuxmachines.org/; git pull origin master' -s /bin/sh git
11:52 Techrights-sec; ... * branch master -> FETCH_HEAD
11:52 Techrights-sec; Already up to date.
11:58 Techrights-sec; /var/www/tuxmachines.org/ is only a mirror of what's in Git
11:59 schestowitz-TR2; so I am guesing you pushed that back for a bit
11:59 schestowitz-TR2; along with the changes
11:59 schestowitz-TR2; as my changes and yours are not in the live site now
11:59 schestowitz-TR2; i ran the pull from tm-new after I had modified the css
12:06 Techrights-sec; ack
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13:38 Techrights-sec; on the topic ofthe image upload, how has the incron workflow gone? that has
13:38 Techrights-sec; been available for testing (on the production site:( though) for some time
13:38 Techrights-sec; on the topic ofthe image upload, how has the incron workflow gone? that has
13:38 Techrights-sec; been available for testing (on the production site:( though) for some time
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13:42 schestowitz-TR2; I tried plaacing new files in the uploads dir, expecting something to emerge in the other dir with some html/txt file
13:42 schestowitz-TR2; but iirc, that never quite worked yet
13:42 schestowitz-TR2; and we were not sure why, then moved on to something morre pressing (at the time)
13:42 schestowitz-TR2; I assume you still rework the navigation part
13:42 schestowitz-TR2; as atm the arrows are gone, from live at least
13:42 schestowitz-TR2; for a moment it was live, with the arrows and the left/right align
13:42 schestowitz-TR2; and then it disappeared
13:42 schestowitz-TR2; archiving will become more important and navigation to old "content" when we have thousands of nodes in the new site
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17:41 Techrights-sec; the upload script is blocked by a permissions problem; I need to find a way
17:41 Techrights-sec; to override any existing permissions and force group-write on the incoming
17:41 Techrights-sec; files
17:41 Techrights-sec; if they get uploaded as 664 they are fine, if they are uploaded as 644, which
17:41 Techrights-sec; is the default on most systems, then they are blocked
17:41 Techrights-sec; hmm some other problem with incron
17:41 Techrights-sec; incron won't run as any user even though the system log says it has
17:42 schestowitz-TR2; b ack, both of us
17:42 schestowitz-TR2; maybe saved ('earned') about 60-90 pounds by patiently hunting
17:42 schestowitz-TR2; that's the "special day out"
17:43 schestowitz-TR2; trams are still a risk of unexpected "Crowding"
17:46 schestowitz-TR2; wow, great job on the navigation bar. really nice, i love it!
17:46 schestowitz-TR2; the "core" part of the cms is solid
17:46 schestowitz-TR2; even db locking
17:46 schestowitz-TR2; can be confusing at times but I communicate with rianne when the lock kicks in to avert conflict
17:46 schestowitz-TR2; navigation/archive pages are not urgenjt because for now it's feasible to crawl backwars
17:46 schestowitz-TR2; it gets harder months or years down the line
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