-- Leo's gemini proxy
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-- Connected
-- Sending request
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03:47 schestowitz-TR; i have just added to the git index in gemini the chat client and web site
03:47 schestowitz-TR; stuff so there are now 10 'sub-projects' there
03:59 schestowitz; gemini://gemini.techrights.org/git/tr-git/
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06:20 activelow; 2022-02-25 06:19:11 [_techrights] |CLIENTNOTICES| -!- Irssi: Public Key Fingerprint: 49:D0:ED:73:95:B2:7C:23:E8:F7:2F:0F:3F:F2:43:10:FC:6C:44:9E:70:B1:DA:BF:AE:2C:61:AD:F3:BA:E3:88 (SHA256)
06:20 activelow; 2022-02-25 06:19:11 [_techrights] |CLIENTNOTICES| -!- Irssi: Certificate Fingerprint: 46:B6:0B:33:6D:B6:00:5F:03:B5:2E:66:7E:37:52:13:EC:47:9B:24:79:DA:0F:C5:45:A8:B2:CB:60:46:F2:BE (SHA256)
06:20 activelow; 2022-02-25 06:19:11 |CLIENTERRORS| -!- Irssi: warning Pinned certificate mismatch
06:20 activelow; 2022-02-25 06:19:11 [_techrights] |CLIENTNOTICES| -!- Irssi: Connection lost to 23.161.112.117
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11:03 schestowitz-TR; hi, gm
11:03 schestowitz-TR; I wanted to ask,
11:03 schestowitz-TR; do you have experience dealing with gemini on a synicication/subscription basis?
11:03 schestowitz-TR; I'm new to that, but I see some people do in fact follow our capsule using the
11:03 schestowitz-TR; feeds
11:03 schestowitz-TR; page
11:04 Techrights-sec; No I have not looked into syndication at all.
11:05 schestowitz-TR; ok, how about this?
11:05 schestowitz-TR; I look into it, maybe explain how that works, and then make a long list of
11:05 schestowitz-TR; so-called 'feeds' for gemini so that other people can find which capsules/people
11:05 schestowitz-TR; to follow...
11:08 schestowitz-TR; heck.
11:08 schestowitz-TR; we might even wish to create our own syndication list and make it public
11:08 schestowitz-TR; iirc, spacewalk does this
11:09 Techrights-sec; ok
11:09 Techrights-sec; It would be an option. Is there documentation on writing a syndication service?
11:09 schestowitz-TR; that is what I do not know about
11:09 schestowitz-TR; iirc, there is a multitude of ways to "syndicate"
11:09 schestowitz-TR; and no unified way
11:09 schestowitz-TR; let aloner a unified set of clients
11:25 Techrights-sec; And the mailing list is still missing in action
11:35 schestowitz; https://twitter.com/glynmoody/status/1497166461391024177
11:35 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@glynmoody: @schestowitz no need to migrate, I have other platforms; I'll leave everything as it is, wait for it to come back...
11:36 schestowitz; https://twitter.com/AlfazAdil/status/1497145557311455232
11:36 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-@AlfazAdil: @schestowitz To prevent false flag attacks by the desperate Ukrainian forces. Everything they are doing makes sense https://t.co/knrlwA5DME
11:48 schestowitz; I am writing to you, a valued thinker who has long observed the Net and the Web, about JoinDiaspora (and more).
11:48 schestowitz; As you may be aware, JoinDiaspora will shut down and their plan it to help people migrate the account to other pods. All "friends" etc. will be lost, but posts and comments are supposed to be preserved (they write code to that effect, I believe). This is work in progress.
11:48 schestowitz; I have two accounts in that pod. The Linux account (official), and my own, which put together probably have close to 900,000 posts and hundreds of thousands of comments.
11:48 schestowitz; Lately I've been thinking whether it's even worth posting in all those sites at all, seeing that the traffic they bring is nothing like what it was a decade ago (judging by your account in Twitter and in JoinDiaspora), you too are experiencing this.
11:48 schestowitz; Should we invest time and effort in what might be a passing fad whose time may be running out?
11:48 schestowitz; I don't want to take up much of your time, but given you're in a similar situation a short paragraph would help me form a decision. Next Friday around 8PM JoinDiaspora goes offline.
11:48 schestowitz; Regards,
11:48 schestowitz; CC Rianne (TuxMachines)
11:59 Techrights-sec; A lot of old discussions from the 1990s about digital preservation would be
11:59 Techrights-sec; relevant to dust off and republish. Unfortunately with such services
11:59 Techrights-sec; the preservation strategy has to be planned from be beginning and built into
11:59 Techrights-sec; the very design. As with all things, complexity makes preservation harder.
11:59 Techrights-sec; Migration is one well-known preservation strategy.
12:01 Techrights-sec; however with each migration or layer of emulation, material gets lost. So
12:01 Techrights-sec; with archives, one of the key decisions made when accepting material is how
12:01 Techrights-sec; long it should be kept for and in what state.
12:03 activelow; digital preservation is an oxymoron
12:03 schestowitz-TR; as you are well aware, since pleroma.site blew up I've kept my postings from JD
12:03 schestowitz-TR; in schestowitz.com in addition to the static file we have in techrights
12:03 schestowitz-TR; techrights also has an extensive archive of tweets syndicated using the bot
12:03 schestowitz-TR; built by Toby until Twitter gotr all nasty towards APIs in 2018
12:04 Techrights-sec; yes.
12:04 Techrights-sec; yes.
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12:06 schestowitz-TR; I wonder if the US LoC is still making any physical copies like printouts
12:06 schestowitz-TR; of stuff it purports to be preserving
12:06 schestowitz-TR; I can imagine that due to scale (it did archive tweets until a Nazi became
12:06 schestowitz-TR; "Twitter public guardian number one") it boilds down to lip service
12:07 Techrights-sec; Probably not.
12:09 schestowitz-TR; viera was developed by kaniini to synidicatre over to irc/freenode from pleroma
12:10 schestowitz-TR; I still have the code, but I think it is online already (elsewere)
12:10 schestowitz-TR; and there is no much use to it, not even by us
12:11 Techrights-sec; I have not looked at Viera at all. IRC is quite ephemeral.
12:16 schestowitz; I bet to differ. IRC, USENET, and even gopher managed to preserve TONS of stuff compared to the Web (where we rely too much on IA for history). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephemerality
12:16 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-en.wikipedia.org | Ephemerality - Wikipedia
12:16 schestowitz-TR; *beg to differ
12:22 Techrights-sec; that is the result of services tacked onto IRC and Usenet not anything inherent
12:22 Techrights-sec; to either.
12:22 Techrights-sec; The relative simplicity of the technology facilitates prservation just like
12:22 Techrights-sec; the original WWW did with HTML+CSS and *no* javascript.
12:22 Techrights-sec; There was DejaNews for a while but it got subsumed by Google and then not sure
12:22 Techrights-sec; how much is left of that.
12:23 Techrights-sec; Google's archive is not so accessible.
12:23 schestowitz-TR; yes, it has been technically simple and cheap, esp. when small (by today's scale
12:23 schestowitz-TR; ) drives were still pricey and not so reliable
12:23 schestowitz-TR; maybe that was a (partly) bueiness decision
12:23 schestowitz-TR; competitive edge
12:24 schestowitz; First the mailing list dies
12:24 schestowitz; empty promises of recovery
12:24 schestowitz; empty promises of resumption
12:24 schestowitz; now: "gemini.circumlunar.space took too long to respond."
12:25 schestowitz; I think it's not a temporary issue
12:25 schestowitz; I think it keeps happening
12:26 Techrights-sec; Could be. It happened shortly before Google went south.
12:26 Techrights-sec; Yes, I've noticed that too.
12:26 activelow; if you're concerned about digital presevation: nilfs2, disable all garbage collection, and verify checksums with some fsck utility (easily implemented)
12:27 activelow; cannot comprehend, why any other filesystem design is considered, since when linux kernel implemented it
12:27 schestowitz-TR; look at it like this
12:27 schestowitz-TR; gemini is inherently NOT centralised
12:27 schestowitz-TR; when the spec was neglected for a year other people wanted to fork it
12:27 schestowitz-TR; that's when solderpunk came back
12:27 schestowitz-TR; and then the mailing list died
12:27 schestowitz-TR; so radio silence again
12:27 schestowitz-TR; the space keeps growing
12:28 schestowitz-TR; but there is no official news site
12:28 schestowitz-TR; no leadership
12:28 Techrights-sec; I can't speculate on th ecauses, though, even if the large corporate interests
12:28 Techrights-sec; fight anything which aims to re-decentralize the net.
12:28 Techrights-sec; Should TR set up mailman or similar and run a list for Gemini? Sympa, too.
12:32 schestowitz-TR; it would (maybe rightly) be perceived as a hostile takeover attempt
12:32 schestowitz-TR; I'd say
12:32 schestowitz-TR; Let's make another "spacewalk"
12:32 schestowitz-TR; as the original is not there afaict
12:32 schestowitz-TR; we already routinely cover gemini stuff and news
12:32 schestowitz-TR; a "spacewalk" would help give voice to many capsules
12:32 schestowitz-TR; like salim announcing that fedora now has lagrange in the repos
12:32 schestowitz-TR; mailing lists are a logistical nightmare
12:32 schestowitz-TR; even joindiaspora struggled with mail
12:32 schestowitz-TR; as you need to juimp through many hoops and even then
12:32 schestowitz-TR; you can face aggressions from microsofters an gulagers
12:32 schestowitz-TR; also, mailman archives are html
12:32 schestowitz-TR; which is contrary to what gemini is about
12:32 schestowitz-TR; so gnu mailman would inherently be biased against gemini
12:32 schestowitz-TR; and cause another such diusaster
12:32 schestowitz-TR; like loss of community';s history
12:33 Techrights-sec; :(
12:33 Techrights-sec; I did not use "spacewalk" so much
12:33 Techrights-sec; microsoft will always (ALWAYS) try to control and destroy *all* projects no
12:33 Techrights-sec; matter how small, especially if the project does not funnel people into
12:33 Techrights-sec; the M$ market.
12:33 schestowitz-TR; psydroid helped us understand the role Microsoft played in gemini around 2020, not just later in 2021
12:34 schestowitz-TR; my email is managed on my own domain on a shared RH servrs
12:34 schestowitz-TR; they too are fighting the blacklists
12:34 schestowitz-TR; mailing lists are not what they once were
12:34 schestowitz-TR; we need a gemini-first approach, with web proxy
12:36 Techrights-sec; The archive module could also make static Gemini pages, but that'd take
12:36 Techrights-sec; a lot of storage space since Gemini does not compress the back end AFAIK
12:36 Techrights-sec; CGI is not appropriate for Gemini
12:36 Techrights-sec; Web proxieds are just a temporary effort, a transition fill the gap between
12:36 Techrights-sec; now and the time when Gemini clients are easily available in the Debian (and
12:36 Techrights-sec; derivative) repositories.
12:38 schestowitz-TR; I am goin to
12:38 schestowitz-TR; 1) research feeds a bit
12:38 schestowitz-TR; 2) harvest some 'feeds'
12:38 schestowitz-TR; make a prototype of some kind
12:38 schestowitz-TR; maybe a "Gemini News" section for techrights which somehoe organises new posts
12:38 schestowitz-TR; from that, later, I can cheery pick items for Daily Links
12:38 schestowitz-TR; maybe in due course that "page" will become handy for other people
12:38 schestowitz-TR; email does not scale
12:38 schestowitz-TR; it scatters a lot of stuff to people who would not read it
12:38 schestowitz-TR; conditional upon delivery by hostile hopping points
12:38 schestowitz-TR; which can beget 'gentlte' and 'oft' censorship
12:38 Techrights-sec; ack
12:38 schestowitz-TR; political and business-oiriented
12:39 schestowitz-TR; biab
13:06 schestowitz; gemini.circumlunar.space/docs/companion/subscription.gmi down at the moment, but I believe it specifies what amfora is using or latching onto
13:06 schestowitz; either way, we want to syndicate onto a page
13:06 schestowitz; rather than a client
13:06 schestowitz; right?
13:19 Techrights-sec; I'd ahve to read up on syndication in Gemini
13:19 schestowitz; https://nnix.com/x/geminispace.info/known-feeds
13:19 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-nnix.com | geminispace.info - Gemini Search Engine
13:22 schestowitz; https://sr.ht/~sircmpwn/gemreader/
13:22 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-sr.ht | gemreader: A feed reader hosted on Gemini
13:23 schestowitz; gemini://feeds.drewdevault.com
13:36 schestowitz-TR; https://www.theregister.com/2022/01/27/gemini_protocol/
13:36 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.theregister.com | New protocol Gemini's users panned for being exclusionary The Register
13:36 Techrights-sec; ack
13:36 Techrights-sec; figures The Register would have to fabricate a negative spin
13:37 schestowitz-TR; we should really worry that Liam did this
13:37 schestowitz-TR; as he should know better
13:37 schestowitz-TR; accessibility and all
13:37 schestowitz-TR; he is pro-Linux
13:37 schestowitz-TR; maybe he read something somewhere hostile
13:37 schestowitz-TR; such as 'hacker' noise
13:39 Techrights-sec; HN is M$ propaganda almost exclusively but with a small sampling of other stuff
13:39 Techrights-sec; to keep people's attention and provide deniability
13:40 schestowitz-TR; i am not able to find any program that would take that long list of xml fgiles,
13:40 schestowitz-TR; over gemini://
13:40 schestowitz-TR; and then turn that into a list of items, clickable
13:40 schestowitz-TR; I reckon with xml parsers in poerl it would be as easy as pie
13:40 schestowitz-TR; basically dump that list inmto a file
13:40 schestowitz-TR; then grab one by one
13:40 schestowitz-TR; cull by date
13:40 schestowitz-TR; once every 24 hours
13:40 schestowitz-TR; => geminiaddress title
13:42 schestowitz; example in gemini://midnight.pub/feed.xml
13:43 schestowitz; from that, only a pair is needed
13:43 schestowitz; title and URI
13:43 Techrights-sec; Gemini is for GemText.
13:43 Techrights-sec; The changes that have been needed in the WWW for 25 years are
13:43 Techrights-sec; 1) generic XML of any DTD
13:43 Techrights-sec; 2) stylesheets for the above
13:43 Techrights-sec; 3) stateful http
13:43 Techrights-sec; There were generic SGML rendering engines back in the middle 1990s.
13:43 Techrights-sec; Doing XML should be simpler from a programming perspective, but it would still
13:43 Techrights-sec; be no small task. Then the browser could display XHTML, DocBook, ODF, and so
13:43 Techrights-sec; on. No scripting. They've squanders so many resources on scripting and much
13:43 Techrights-sec; of that is trying to make up for the statelessness of HTTP. HTTP/3 is over UDP
13:43 Techrights-sec; and so even the network connection is stateless, going the wrong direction
13:43 Techrights-sec; and pushing the heavy lifting further up the stack where it is less efficient
13:43 Techrights-sec; and more error prone.
13:44 Techrights-sec; That's just a normal Atom feed. That's easy to whip up in Perl.
13:45 schestowitz-TR; can you easily retrieve the object with perl on debian?
13:45 schestowitz-TR; if so, we can easily make an aggregator in perl
13:45 schestowitz-TR; and then use that
13:45 schestowitz-TR; 1) for us
13:45 schestowitz-TR; 2) for Daily Links
13:45 schestowitz-TR; 3) for others who might look for news
13:45 schestowitz-TR; it would also help thgose capsules through backlinks
13:46 Techrights-sec; From the file system? Yes.
13:46 Techrights-sec; Or do you mean make an aggregator for gemini feeds?
13:46 Techrights-sec; It would be feasible to convert Atom and RSS feeds to Gemtext with active links.
13:48 schestowitz-TR; yesterday was far too hectic on m,any frotns, but I wanted to do this and it caus
13:48 schestowitz-TR; ed
13:48 schestowitz-TR; overload
13:48 schestowitz-TR; https://nnix.com/x/geminispace.info/known-feeds
13:48 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-nnix.com | geminispace.info - Gemini Search Engine
13:48 schestowitz-TR; some of these that I tried are offline, but you can highlight text in page, paste
13:48 schestowitz-TR; into text editor
13:48 schestowitz-TR; then pass through them and convert to a long list of articles
13:48 schestowitz-TR; if they are made chronological using the data field
13:48 schestowitz-TR; then it'll be easier to follow "updates" or "new" additions
13:48 schestowitz-TR; I've already put some gemini:// links int eh next batch of Daily Links
13:50 schestowitz; gemini://november.smol.pub/atom.xml
13:51 Techrights-sec; I suppose the first step would be to make a feed generator for TR
13:51 Techrights-sec; Keep in mind that GemText lacks much of any structure so all collection
13:51 Techrights-sec; of metadata, including title, will have to be done manually.
13:51 Techrights-sec; However, an aggregator can be made base on the Atom / RSS feeds.
13:53 schestowitz-TR; gemini://november.smol.pub/atom.xml
13:53 schestowitz-TR; lagrange and amfora deal ok witiuh such objects
13:53 schestowitz-TR; kristall does not
13:53 schestowitz-TR; but if converted into gemtext they should all cope OK
13:53 schestowitz-TR; DeVault's stuff is go back end with cgi at server
13:53 schestowitz-TR; so inapplicable to us
14:44 schestowitz-TR; biab coffee
14:44 schestowitz-TR; just askin': are you planning to hack this or should I prototype something?
14:45 Techrights-sec; I can take a look
14:47 schestowitz-TR; pseudocode
14:47 schestowitz-TR; take list of feeds from tex file (source: URL above)
14:47 schestowitz-TR; retrieve xml file
14:47 schestowitz-TR; process fields, make a pair or tuple, in case there is a date
14:47 schestowitz-TR; repeat for all feeds
14:47 schestowitz-TR; then sort by datte of title
14:47 schestowitz-TR; repeat after a while
15:01 schestowitz-TR; come to thuink of it, a lot of what we use for last_rss can be reused there,
15:01 schestowitz-TR; with a fetcher that uses another protocol
15:01 schestowitz-TR; annd maybe that can be added to automated feeds even?
15:38 Techrights-sec; ack
15:38 Techrights-sec; yes some of it
16:28 schestowitz; > thanks for the email.
16:28 schestowitz; >
16:28 schestowitz; > I thought JoinDiaspora had been sorted for the moment? But anyway, my
16:28 schestowitz; > thoughts if it hasn't.
16:29 schestowitz; >
16:29 schestowitz; > If the migration is simple - signing up, pressing button etc - I'll
16:29 schestowitz; > probably do it. Even if followers are lost, I think it's quite
16:29 schestowitz; > important for our posts to be there. They are picked up by search
16:29 schestowitz; > engines, and they basically seed information online. It would be a
16:29 schestowitz; > shame for that to be lost - especially your huge number of posts. If
16:29 schestowitz; > it's complicated, I won't bother.
16:29 schestowitz; >
16:29 schestowitz; > Hope that helps.
16:29 schestowitz; Thanks, yes! This was the upside I had in mind. With your intuition being so, I'll keep @tuxmachines and @schestowitz accounts going.
16:29 schestowitz; They will basically ask you to download your archive some time next month. Then you upload it to another pod and carry on as before (but another domain), so this should not be too hard. They try to simplify the whole thing.
16:29 schestowitz; The issue was, the first pod (joindiaspora) piled up too much bugs and 'hacks' over the years, which led to huge technical debt, as they explained 2 days ago. So they want to move the active account to a 'fresh' pod.
16:29 schestowitz; For more information see http://techrights.org/2022/02/24/joindiaspora-technical-debt/
16:29 schestowitz; Thanks for all the RTs in Twitter; For nearly 2 years now, as a matter of principle, I don't click anything there, so don't feel offended if I cannot recioprocate. I just export to it all my posts from diaspora.
16:29 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-techrights.org | The End of JoinDiaspora. Thanks for All the Fish | Techrights
16:29 schestowitz; Regards,
16:52 Techrights-sec; RSS or Atom for the TR gemini feed?
16:53 schestowitz-TR; ah, you make a combined feed instead of a page? I suppose that's a ghood approach
16:53 schestowitz-TR; , as turning a combined feed into html or gemtext is not hard
16:53 schestowitz-TR; or maybe you make an XML file for the site/capsue?
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19:21 Techrights-sec; Yes, a feed for the site.
19:57 Techrights-sec; I've added a script, gemini-make-feed.pl
19:57 Techrights-sec; It runs manually using the settings in cron but cron seems to not run it.
19:57 Techrights-sec; I'm not sure what to debug there.
19:57 Techrights-sec; Once it's working in cron it can be added to Git
19:57 Techrights-sec; The script creates an RSS feed for the Gemini site.
19:57 Techrights-sec; Next up, the feed aggregator
19:57 schestowitz-TR; excllent! Thank you!
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20:12 Techrights-sec; np
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