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07:27 schestowitz-TR; gm
07:27 schestowitz-TR; got camelcase
07:27 schestowitz-TR; btw, seems like sam's feed at itwire is no longer filled with the obligatory webspam ('articles') and
07:27 schestowitz-TR; is just his own
07:27 schestowitz-TR; based on the past week
07:29 Techrights-sec; gm
07:29 Techrights-sec; it's still worth dealing with ITWire manually since although it does have
07:29 Techrights-sec; some really good articles from time to time, for the most part it is tri[e
07:29 Techrights-sec; ^trip
07:29 Techrights-sec; ^tripe
07:29 schestowitz-TR; yes, I associate them with the tripe
07:29 schestowitz-TR; that's their "business model"
07:50 Techrights-sec; though as mentioned several times Sam's articles tend to be good and then
07:50 Techrights-sec; there are occasionally others too
08:06 schestowitz-TR; Curious: how do you feel since stoping to scroll through mastodon blobs looking for "toots"?
08:06 schestowitz-TR; "algo speak" is partly outrage speak or clickbair speak
08:06 schestowitz-TR; looking to get noticed in a sea of billions of daily mindfarts with little actual contribution to human
08:06 schestowitz-TR; knowledge
08:07 Techrights-sec; in a word, better
08:07 Techrights-sec; less stress
08:07 Techrights-sec; I still scan for URLs abotu once a week but if the entry does not have an
08:07 Techrights-sec; obvious URL, I don't read it
08:08 schestowitz-TR; No URL -> no reference -> usually just some random though that cannot be verified
08:08 schestowitz-TR; "number of likes" does not mean likelihood of accuracy
08:08 schestowitz-TR; sometimes it means the opposite
08:08 schestowitz-TR; it is "outrage score
08:08 Techrights-sec; exactly
08:08 Techrights-sec; yes "engagement" does not relate to veracity or relevance.
08:09 schestowitz-TR; "not that I got your attention," says the unlothed person...
08:10 Techrights-sec; I should probably check sometime in the next few days, but really don't feel
08:10 Techrights-sec; like wasting that time
08:12 schestowitz-TR; in 2009-2010 we had an identi.ca bot in IRC
08:12 schestowitz-TR; It wouls coop up people like Moody and Greve
08:12 schestowitz-TR; Then, when posting IRC logs (we've done this since 2008) I'd click on LINKS they post
08:12 schestowitz-TR; and consider them as RSS feed equivalent
08:12 schestowitz-TR; but I found that overwhelming at times
08:12 schestowitz-TR; as that was a lot of links, even back then
08:12 schestowitz-TR; but curated at least
08:12 Techrights-sec; Glyn Moody writes quite well and always on relevant and interesting topics
08:12 Techrights-sec; but does not have a central place where one can find what he has written
08:12 Techrights-sec; so it is hard to know where and when he has written
08:13 schestowitz-TR; Open dot dot dot...
08:13 schestowitz-TR; He used to post there a daily roundup of his quips, or maybe that's a seperate blog
08:13 schestowitz-TR; If the latter, I'm quit sure he stopped maintaining it >5 years ago
08:13 schestowitz-TR; he never had a site of his own, AFAIK
08:13 schestowitz-TR; GoogleSpot was the cloest thing
08:14 Techrights-sec; https://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com
08:14 Techrights-sec; that;s only his personal writings not his paid work
08:14 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-opendotdotdot.blogspot.com | open...
08:15 schestowitz-TR; he already lost his spot at Linux Journal
08:15 schestowitz-TR; He lost Gulag+
08:15 schestowitz-TR; He lost Diaspora
08:15 schestowitz-TR; He lost Identica
08:15 schestowitz-TR; Musk Social is left
08:15 schestowitz-TR; and maybe some "toot" thing...
08:15 schestowitz-TR; Maybe
08:16 Techrights-sec; :/
08:16 Techrights-sec; https://mastodon.social/@glynmoody
08:16 Techrights-sec; no work-related writings there either
08:16 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-Glyn Moody (@glynmoody@mastodon.social) - Mastodon
08:17 schestowitz-TR; he chose the mega-instance, mastodon.'social'
08:17 schestowitz-TR; known for restrictions on speech
08:19 schestowitz-TR; fyi suepo is escalating
08:19 schestowitz-TR; and will enhance the actions
08:19 schestowitz-TR; it's confirmed to me techrights caused the ourage
08:19 schestowitz-TR; I put some details in irc
08:20 schestowitz-TR; not in the blog
08:20 schestowitz-TR; boasting/bragging is a weakness
08:20 schestowitz-TR; and a risk/liability
08:20 schestowitz-TR; so I left that out of last night's articles
08:20 schestowitz-TR; eventually it's team upc losing its cool
08:20 schestowitz-TR; and looking like a bunch of ogres
08:20 schestowitz; " The inflation in the Netherlands of 11.2% and in Germany of 7.8% over the last 12 months accounts for far more than a double step reward (on average 1 step equals 2%). Less than 60% of eligible staff (actually less than 50% of all staff) may receive a single step let alone a double step this year. This is the worst year in the career of EPO staff which comes at the time when staff worked diligently through the worst pandemic of the century and
08:20 schestowitz; the worst inflation since the EPO inception."
08:23 Techrights-sec; ack
08:23 Techrights-sec; Does SUEPO have a concise summary for outsiders on their site, yet?
08:23 Techrights-sec; It would go a long way to be able to point to the original source from time
08:23 Techrights-sec; to time.
08:24 schestowitz-TR; the site helps the union communicate with its members
08:32 Techrights-sec; yes but there ought to be at least a little outward communication
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08:40 Techrights-sec; by the way, Glyn's books have been quite good,
08:40 Techrights-sec; "Digital Code of Life: How Bioinformatics is Revolutionizing Science, Medicine, and Business by Glyn Moody" was hard to get aho
08:40 Techrights-sec; ld of though
08:40 Techrights-sec; Apparently there is not much market for books any more
08:40 Techrights-sec; "Rebel Code: Linux and the Open Source Revolution" is more relevant than ever
08:40 Techrights-sec; but the younger generations who need that message can't/don't read anything
08:40 Techrights-sec; longer that a "tweet"
08:40 schestowitz-TR; when did you last sit in a queue and saw a kid reading a physical book
08:40 schestowitz-TR; rather than mess around with some "phone"?
08:41 Techrights-sec; Must be ove a decade.
08:41 Techrights-sec; A couple of years ago I helped one kid find a book for a book report. He wa
08:41 Techrights-sec; was supposedly a top student but whined and struggled with a ~ 100 page
08:41 Techrights-sec; novella, I figure he probably used the LibriVox edition rather than the
08:41 Techrights-sec; paperback I loaned him. But I haven't even heard second hand of anyone under
08:41 Techrights-sec; 40 or so reading anything, whether an ebook or a real book.
08:41 Techrights-sec; Some will listen to podcasts and such but give equal weight to those as to
08:41 Techrights-sec; well researched works. However most seem to be "engaged" in tiktok or whatsapp
08:41 Techrights-sec; or similar empty timewasters.
08:42 schestowitz-TR; BIAB WORKOUT
08:42 schestowitz-TR; (oops, caps)
08:46 Techrights-sec; ack
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10:39 Techrights-sec; over the past few weeks there have been several links from ec.europa.eu
10:39 Techrights-sec; regarding patents and,potentially, software patents, if you are looking for
10:39 Techrights-sec; such material, those can warrant a close look
10:39 Techrights-sec; https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-say/initiatives/13109-Intellectual-property-new-framework-for-standard-essential-patents/feedback_en?p_id=28414115
10:39 Techrights-sec; The opportunity for feedback closed 9 May, so that has come and gone
10:39 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-ec.europa.eu | Have your say
10:39 schestowitz-TR; thanks,
10:39 schestowitz-TR; I was just ota when you typed it
10:39 schestowitz-TR; responding to a video of Campinos
10:39 schestowitz-TR; a
10:39 schestowitz-TR; 1-hour rebuttasl
10:39 schestowitz-TR; this inc. exactly this subject
10:39 schestowitz-TR; like "harmonisation"
10:44 Techrights-sec; Apple, for example, submitted 81 pages of comment pushing for patents and such
10:44 schestowitz-TR; well, apple is a european company based in reland :-)
10:45 Techrights-sec; :(
10:45 schestowitz-TR; maybe they should take the demands/advice of yandex and huawei too
10:50 Techrights-sec; it would be about as inappropriate
10:50 Techrights-sec; Unfortunately there is rarely any coverage for these consultations unless,
10:50 Techrights-sec; like this time, it happens after the period has closed
10:51 schestowitz-TR; tickbox-checking exercise
10:51 schestowitz-TR; "we did open up to feedback"
10:51 schestowitz-TR; (from corporations, not even European ones)
11:02 Techrights-sec; yep
11:02 schestowitz-TR; just found and enabled a screen drawing thing in kwin so I can paint on top of things I show
11:02 schestowitz-TR; in fututr videos
11:10 Techrights-sec; interesting capability
11:10 schestowitz-TR; the campinos video will take ages to process
11:11 schestowitz-TR; I will likely do more like that
11:11 schestowitz-TR; knowing it gets under his skin
11:11 schestowitz-TR; "show me what hurts you"
11:11 schestowitz-TR; "so I know what yo do more of'
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11:42 schestowitz-TR; draft
11:42 schestowitz-TR; so you think the term "Monpoly Tony" is
11:42 schestowitz-TR; 1) polite enough
11:42 schestowitz-TR; 2) informative enough
11:42 schestowitz-TR; 3) effective
11:42 schestowitz-TR; ?
11:42 schestowitz-TR; Adopting it would //
11:42 schestowitz-TR; a) be stupid
11:42 schestowitz-TR; b) become catchy
11:42 schestowitz-TR; ?
11:48 Techrights-sec; it'd be too unclear about to whom it refers, best stick with the given name
11:48 Techrights-sec; it also may help in "SEO" to associate his name with TR articles ...
11:48 schestowitz-TR; first name or last name?
11:48 schestowitz-TR; "Monpopoly Antonia Campinos" is too long and not catchy
11:48 schestowitz-TR; I will link the name Monopoly Tony o his wiki page
11:48 schestowitz-TR; Monopoly Tony has a "sing" to it
11:50 Techrights-sec; both
11:50 Techrights-sec; right but an eptithet might not be necessary
11:50 Techrights-sec; if you introduce him in each article as 'Antonio "Mr Monopoly" Campinos' then
11:50 Techrights-sec; for the rest of that current article you can simply refer to him as
11:50 Techrights-sec; Mr Mono-oloy, but it is important that the full name show up at least once
11:50 Techrights-sec; in each relevant article
11:50 schestowitz-TR; Ok, the headline says his name
11:50 schestowitz-TR; and then the eptithet links to a wiki page s he loatghes deeply
11:50 schestowitz-TR; also, the target audience here knows who that us
11:50 schestowitz-TR; *is
11:50 Techrights-sec; that's ok, the repetition of the full name is important for later and for
11:50 Techrights-sec; newcomers and for the search engines, so three reasons IMHO
11:51 schestowitz-TR; makes sense!
11:51 schestowitz-TR; I notice terms we use are adopted inside and outside EPO, over time...
12:21 Techrights-sec; excellent
12:21 schestowitz-TR; I'm guessing you saw some quotes in #techrights last night about what had happened
12:31 Techrights-sec; which ones?
12:32 schestowitz-TR; gemini://gemini.techrights.org/irc-gmi/irc-log-techbytes-190522.gmi
12:32 schestowitz-TR; http://techrights.org/irc-archives/irc-log-techbytes-190522.html
12:32 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-techrights.org | IRC: #techbytes @ Techrights IRC Network: Thursday, May 19, 2022
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13:18 Techrights-sec; ack
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15:36 schestowitz-TR; some god news from turkey
15:36 schestowitz-TR; I'm not too ffond of their regime
15:36 schestowitz-TR; but they do represent a success story on the SF side
15:36 Techrights-sec; excellent
15:36 Techrights-sec; Aral's doing?
15:36 schestowitz-TR; no, see latest 2 posts in TR
15:36 schestowitz-TR; Aral was a Mac fanboy for too long
15:36 schestowitz-TR; he still loves JS
15:37 Techrights-sec; Aral's doing?
15:37 Techrights-sec; yes javascript is a major downside to his work
15:37 schestowitz-TR; tim b-l's also, plus GITHUB!
15:40 Techrights-sec; timbl rendered himself mostly irrelevant as far as the future goes when
15:40 Techrights-sec; he folded on EME / DRM
15:41 psydroid2; Solid/Inrupt
15:41 schestowitz-TR; Tim's Rusty Linus moment
15:41 schestowitz-TR; or some other analogies
15:41 schestowitz-TR; or RMS going to lecture... Microsoft, only to be thrown under a bus to distract from BillG 2 weeks later?
15:41 schestowitz-TR; psydroid2: solid went nowhere
15:41 schestowitz-TR; except Microsoft
15:42 psydroid2; schestowitz-TR, I saw him do his presentation at FOSDEM 19, but halfway through someone from IRC came to meet me and we left
15:42 Techrights-sec; I still don't get what went on with RMS that he would have such exceedingly bad
15:42 Techrights-sec; jusdgment as to visit Redmond
15:43 psydroid2; it's not that I was overly interested in it, it just gave me a chuckle that he was even trying to peddle this lame duck
15:43 schestowitz-TR; I asked him to write to explain
15:43 schestowitz-TR; which he did
15:43 schestowitz-TR; and then the storm started
15:43 schestowitz-TR; so he mostly vanished
15:44 Techrights-sec; so maybe he will never bring it up again?
15:44 Techrights-sec; too bad, others could learn from that mistake if more details were known
15:45 schestowitz-TR; psydroid2: I know very little about it
15:45 schestowitz-TR; except Microsoft shit+JS shit
15:45 psydroid2; schestowitz-TR, it just sounded so lame
15:45 schestowitz-TR; and he was helping DRM agenda around that time
15:45 schestowitz-TR; a senior moment
15:45 psydroid2; as if he was trying to keep people onboard
15:45 psydroid2; rather than suggesting a way out of the mess
15:46 psydroid2; I would not trust this guy with anything ever again
15:46 Techrights-sec; I see the two posts on market share in Turkey
15:46 Techrights-sec; It would help if there were a link from the statement that school migratinos
15:46 Techrights-sec; play a large role in the numbers
15:47 schestowitz-TR; the statements would not be in englisha dn in fact english-speaking media totally ignored all this
15:47 schestowitz-TR; I can guess why
15:47 schestowitz-TR; you can too
15:47 Techrights-sec; yes AFAIK similar happened in Spain, starting with Extremadura. The mainstream
15:47 Techrights-sec; press pretended the land had vanished as it upgraded tp GNU/Linux and dropped
15:47 Techrights-sec; M$ all around.
15:48 psydroid2; I speak Spanish pretty well, but my Turkish is in its infancy
15:48 psydroid2; there is a lot to be found in Spanish
15:50 Techrights-sec; Yes, /in/ Spanish but not about Spain in English...
15:51 schestowitz-TR; the nature of media manipulation
15:51 schestowitz-TR; a) microsoft holes blamed on victims and attackers
15:51 schestowitz-TR; b) billg is vaccine expert, not profiteers, and his haters are all just "antiovaxxer" and jealous
15:52 psydroid2; fortunately English isn't the only language spoken in the world
15:53 psydroid2; and I don't think it's fair to expect people from each country to write in a foreign language to reach a wider audience
15:54 Techrights-sec; :)
15:59 schestowitz-TR; IIRC, Spanish is spoke in most countries
15:59 schestowitz-TR; maybe Arabic by most people
15:59 schestowitz-TR; if not Mandarin
15:59 schestowitz-TR; English spoken as a secondary language in many places
16:00 schestowitz-TR; or third language
16:00 schestowitz-TR; after the fall of the British Empire and see US hegemony this will change
16:00 psydroid2; Hindi
16:00 schestowitz-TR; that can take several more generations to change
16:00 schestowitz-TR; psydroid2: but many dialects in India, no?
16:01 schestowitz-TR; in school, aged around 10, I did a project about Indian languages
16:01 schestowitz-TR; I might still have that somewhere in my archives
16:01 psydroid2; schestowitz-TR, yes, but this is specifically about standard Hindi
16:01 psydroid2; I speak another North Indian language natively
16:01 psydroid2; in addition to Hindi
16:01 Techrights-sec; Not in the country but at least those outside the country covering that beat.
16:01 Techrights-sec; Spain was covered up until major parts dropped M$.
16:01 Techrights-sec; However, there is a margeting and political advantage for each country
16:01 Techrights-sec; presenting an English language news service for foreign consumption.
16:02 psydroid2; I think that's more important if English is the only foreign language you speak
16:03 psydroid2; German is still very important in Europe
16:03 psydroid2; and French when speaking to people in Africa
16:03 schestowitz-TR; western africa
16:06 psydroid2; and Anglophone countries abuse that power they have over people who at most speak English in addition to their native language(s) by offering bad living/working conditions
16:09 Techrights-sec; https://today.rtl.lu/
16:09 Techrights-sec; https://cphpost.dk/?cat=8
16:09 Techrights-sec; https://news.err.ee/
16:09 Techrights-sec; https://eng.lsm.lv/
16:09 Techrights-sec; https://www.lrt.lt/en/
16:09 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-today.rtl.lu | RTL Today - Home
16:09 Techrights-sec; https://about.rte.ie/
16:09 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-cphpost.dk | News Archives - The Post
16:09 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-news.err.ee | news | ERR
16:09 Techrights-sec; https://mexiconewsdaily.com/category/news/
16:09 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-Eng.lsm.lv - Reliable news from Latvia
16:09 Techrights-sec; and many African countries have English as a primary or secondary language
16:09 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.lrt.lt | Lithuanian National Television and Radio. News, livestreams, video, audio - LRT
16:09 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-about.rte.ie | About RT
16:09 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-mexiconewsdaily.com | Mexico news archives
16:09 psydroid2; https://www.edudwar.com/list-of-most-spoken-languages-in-the-world/
16:09 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-www.edudwar.com | List of Most spoken Languages in the World 2022: top languages in the World
16:10 psydroid2; French is the fastest growing language in Africa
16:10 Techrights-sec; I can muddle through much of the cyrillica and devangiri alphabets but th
16:10 Techrights-sec; the transliteration does nothing without knowing the languagess.
16:10 Techrights-sec; Back before he started making American movies, I used to read enough Chines
16:10 Techrights-sec; to find Jackie Chan's name on videos in the Chinese video shop. Same for jet li
16:10 Techrights-sec; and a few others. That's all forgotten now.
16:11 psydroid2; if you don't use it, you'll lose it
16:16 Techrights-sec; There are only 24 hours per day and memories / knowledge fades without refresshing
16:17 psydroid2; min puhun vh
16:17 psydroid2; n suomea
16:17 psydroid2; or something like that
16:17 psydroid2; it's been a while
16:17 psydroid2; and yes, I know
17:32 schestowitz-TR; <techrights-news> "Students should not have to use proprietary software to participate in the educational process. The FSFE joins the Dutch coalition Fair Digital Education supporting privacy-respecting solutions involving Free Software in schools." https://fsfe.org/news/2022/news-20220520-01.en.html
17:32 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-fsfe.org | FSFE signs Dutch manifesto calling for education improvements - FSFE
17:32 schestowitz-TR; <techrights-news> Indonesian LibreOffice community: recent activities https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2022/05/20/indonesian-libreoffice-community-recent-activities/
17:32 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-blog.documentfoundation.org | Indonesian LibreOffice community: recent activities - The Document Foundation Blog
17:34 schestowitz-TR; keep pushing
17:34 schestowitz-TR; we make progress
17:34 schestowitz-TR; the media is not on our side
17:34 Techrights-sec; ack
17:34 Techrights-sec; yea
17:35 schestowitz-TR; same issue re EPO and "AYE PEE"
17:35 schestowitz-TR; FUCK THE MEDIA!
17:35 schestowitz-TR; People can see for themselves who makes more sense
17:35 schestowitz-TR; Monopoly Tony or what he called (int the talk) "movement" of "anti-IP"
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18:51 schestowitz-TR; <techrights-news> Outsourcing one's readership to a volatile third party seems like short-sighted and risky a move from a site almost 30 years old https://lwn.net/Articles/895898/
18:51 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-LWN is now on Mastodon [LWN.net]
18:54 schestowitz-TR; laws is well known
18:54 schestowitz-TR; not some new incognito
18:54 schestowitz-TR; case scanario: "oh, cool, I can follow all the sites here... FREE CANDY!"
18:54 schestowitz-TR; user stops using the rss feed, uses this instead
18:54 schestowitz-TR; instance shuts down
18:54 schestowitz-TR; reader lost
18:54 schestowitz-TR; "oh, shit, I forgot you exist or thought you stopped publishing!!"
18:54 schestowitz-TR; /s/laws/LWN/
18:55 Techrights-sec; ack
18:55 Techrights-sec; which source for the quote?
18:59 schestowitz-TR; just hypothetical, joke
18:59 schestowitz-TR; a long long time ago I worried about that
18:59 schestowitz-TR; 2010 or earlier
18:59 schestowitz-TR; boycott novell days
18:59 schestowitz-TR; now LWN can become "just some account"
18:59 schestowitz-TR; and people might not even explore the site
18:59 Techrights-sec; ack
18:59 schestowitz-TR; it's like B2B marketing
18:59 schestowitz-TR; instead of setting up shop
18:59 schestowitz-TR; you see:
18:59 schestowitz-TR; it's OK if people link to LWN
18:59 schestowitz-TR; but people won't assume that those peolple are LWN
18:59 schestowitz-TR; or that LWN is an account
18:59 schestowitz-TR; they also chose a likely very transient instgance
18:59 schestowitz-TR; fosstodon
18:59 schestowitz-TR; it is only years old
19:08 schestowitz-TR; how do you prove intent
19:08 schestowitz-TR; as in "intnetional"?
19:08 schestowitz-TR; boycott novell can be banned in an instance
19:08 schestowitz-TR; it is intentionaly antagonistic to some things
19:08 schestowitz-TR; yoiu are REQUIRED to be "active in the community"
19:08 schestowitz-TR; so you cannot post just links to lwn with a script
19:08 schestowitz-TR; to your own site
19:08 schestowitz-TR; you must leave some "likes" and comments here and there
19:08 schestowitz-TR; Orwell would be proud
19:08 schestowitz-TR; cannot "engege in personao attacls"
19:08 schestowitz-TR; oh, shit, there go all my posts about Zemlin
19:08 schestowitz-TR; the millionaire
19:08 Techrights-sec; :(
19:08 Techrights-sec; or they can intentionally misconstrue everything and anything as a personal
19:08 Techrights-sec; attack
19:08 schestowitz-TR; rule number one says "antiSemitism" and "transphobia"
19:08 schestowitz-TR; under "hateful ideaologies"
19:08 schestowitz-TR; HAHAHAHA
19:08 schestowitz-TR; "do not debate moderation action"
19:08 schestowitz-TR; they are above the law!
19:08 schestowitz-TR; Cannot even talk about their decisions!!
19:08 schestowitz-TR; You MUST post only in ENGLISH!
19:08 schestowitz-TR; Because...oderation
19:08 schestowitz-TR; *moderatin
19:08 schestowitz-TR; that does seem against the principles of inclusion :-)
19:12 schestowitz-TR; can you see above "how do you prove intent
19:12 schestowitz-TR; I lost that (out of scrollback)
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19:43 Techrights-sec; not that far back
19:44 schestowitz-TR; OK, I wrongly estimated number of lines I had after restating this machine
19:44 schestowitz-TR; anyway, I know roughly what I said there, I'm likely going to do a video about it
19:45 schestowitz-TR; 'Do not be intentionally antagonistic. A post or reply designed to provoke a confrontation is not acceptable."
19:45 schestowitz-TR; https://fosstodon.org/about/more
19:45 -TechrightsBN/#boycottnovell-fosstodon.org - Fosstodon
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20:43 schestowitz-TR; OTA
20:45 schestowitz-TR; I've increased the visile buffer; along the way I found some ytalk feature I was not aware of before
20:45 schestowitz-TR; either way, it's fine as it is
20:45 schestowitz-TR; I didn't lose anythingm of value
20:45 schestowitz-TR; but the scrollback helped a bit when recording
20:45 schestowitz-TR; I have a vague recolle
20:45 schestowitz-TR; ction of what I said
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-- Response ended
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