[2023-10-16T00:26:34Z] <midfavila> GearUntreated
[2023-10-16T00:26:38Z] <midfavila> nice
[2023-10-16T00:26:46Z] <midfavila> thank you for not activating my screen locker lmao
[2023-10-16T00:26:51Z] <midfavila> password reset time
[2023-10-16T00:26:55Z] <midfavila> sewn 21
[2023-10-16T03:06:30Z] <sewn> isn't 21 uni
[2023-10-16T11:15:25Z] <midfavila> i can't afford to go to university
[2023-10-16T11:15:30Z] <midfavila> time-wise or money-wise
[2023-10-16T11:15:35Z] <midfavila> i've already attended a college though
[2023-10-16T11:15:38Z] <midfavila> completely useless
[2023-10-16T11:15:48Z] <midfavila> i can teach myself what i need to know faster than if i were to attend a school
[2023-10-16T11:29:54Z] <sewn> "I know how to do this" vs "here's a high-level certificate of how I can do this"
[2023-10-16T11:30:07Z] <sewn> I agree that school sucks but we are in a world of capitalism and lies
[2023-10-16T11:30:41Z] <sewn> vova here has a diploma thing bachlor and because of it, a high paying job afaik
[2023-10-16T11:31:04Z] <sewn> no scholarships though?
[2023-10-16T11:40:40Z] <vova_> "high paying" you mean 1900€ after taxes ?
[2023-10-16T11:41:01Z] <vova_> for a full stack + devops job
[2023-10-16T12:25:53Z] <midfavila> vova_ that's four times what i make
[2023-10-16T12:25:59Z] <midfavila> if not more
[2023-10-16T12:26:00Z] <midfavila> so yes
[2023-10-16T12:26:01Z] <midfavila> high paying
[2023-10-16T12:26:05Z] <vova_> wtf
[2023-10-16T12:26:09Z] <vova_> Where do you live midfavila
[2023-10-16T12:26:14Z] <midfavila> new brunswick, canada
[2023-10-16T12:26:16Z] <midfavila> unfortunately
[2023-10-16T12:26:26Z] <vova_> ...
[2023-10-16T12:26:32Z] <vova_> Man you're paid like a slave wtf
[2023-10-16T12:26:35Z] <midfavila> yeah uh
[2023-10-16T12:26:39Z] <midfavila> welcome to minimum wage labor
[2023-10-16T12:26:44Z] <vova_> my god
[2023-10-16T12:26:48Z] <midfavila> where you're a slave in every sense except legal
[2023-10-16T12:27:00Z] <vova_> And you can live with this low amount of money ?
[2023-10-16T12:27:08Z] <midfavila> we've gone from chattel to prison to indentured to wage
[2023-10-16T12:27:10Z] <midfavila> yes, i can
[2023-10-16T12:27:14Z] <midfavila> i've lived on significantly less
[2023-10-16T12:27:20Z] <midfavila> this job makes me twice as much as my previous job
[2023-10-16T12:27:23Z] <vova_> damn
[2023-10-16T12:27:32Z] <midfavila> but my previous job had me literally scraping food off of plates because i had so little time and money
[2023-10-16T12:27:34Z] <midfavila> so, you know
[2023-10-16T12:27:35Z] <vova_> I thought canada was like minimum 30k/year easily
[2023-10-16T12:27:36Z] <midfavila> "live"
[2023-10-16T12:27:38Z] <midfavila> lmao no
[2023-10-16T12:27:45Z] <midfavila> for the longest time i lived on 12k
[2023-10-16T12:27:51Z] <midfavila> many people in my city live on much less
[2023-10-16T12:28:16Z] <vova_> fuck
[2023-10-16T12:28:19Z] <vova_> good luck bro
[2023-10-16T12:28:23Z] <midfavila> this job pays like 24k a year, in theory
[2023-10-16T12:28:40Z] <midfavila> in practice it pays much less because you get zero benefits
[2023-10-16T12:28:43Z] <midfavila> not even sick days
[2023-10-16T12:28:52Z] <midfavila> i was told if i call in sick again while i'm on probation i'm getting fired on the spot
[2023-10-16T12:29:03Z] <midfavila> there was a strep outbreak a while back that spread to everyone in the store and i was out for like two days
[2023-10-16T12:29:26Z] <midfavila> and of course because NB's medical system collapsed years ago you have to pay for everything out of pocket
[2023-10-16T12:29:58Z] <midfavila> oh and of course like 50-60% of what i make goes to my landlord
[2023-10-16T12:30:06Z] <midfavila> and groceries are like 500 a month
[2023-10-16T12:30:09Z] <midfavila> xwx
[2023-10-16T12:30:40Z] <vova_> hard life
[2023-10-16T12:30:45Z] <vova_> fuck man
[2023-10-16T12:30:47Z] <vova_> good luck
[2023-10-16T12:30:50Z] <vova_> sounds horrible ngl
[2023-10-16T12:30:54Z] <midfavila> well, i was homeless for most of my teenage years, so
[2023-10-16T12:30:56Z] <midfavila> still a step up
[2023-10-16T12:30:59Z] * midfavila shrugs?
[2023-10-16T12:31:01Z] <vova_> I guess
[2023-10-16T12:31:14Z] <midfavila> i still have to sleep with a knife though because my city is a shithole
[2023-10-16T12:31:22Z] <midfavila> truly fitting for the capitol of my province
[2023-10-16T12:31:43Z] <midfavila> i'm hoping to qualify for a line of credit soon so i can finance a move
[2023-10-16T12:33:04Z] <midfavila> but yeah the whole wage labor == slavery thing is a trend that's been noted since ancient times
[2023-10-16T12:33:35Z] <midfavila> i have a friend in europe who always goes on about how i need to find a high-paying salaried position because muhmuhmuh and i'm like... dude what's a salary
[2023-10-16T12:33:42Z] <midfavila> you get *paid* even if you don't show up? wild
[2023-10-16T12:34:17Z] <midfavila> it's always surreal when i see the way programmers and etc get treated and then they turn around and bitch about how they're "underpaid"
[2023-10-16T12:34:18Z] <midfavila> like no
[2023-10-16T12:34:26Z] <midfavila> your job is overpaid and overrated
[2023-10-16T12:34:39Z] <midfavila> and isn't worth anything more than any other skilled trade unless you're doing some crazy shit
[2023-10-16T12:34:48Z] <midfavila> because that's literally all programming is: a modern skilled trade
[2023-10-16T12:35:13Z] <midfavila> you don't need a university degree or even a college diploma to be a competent programmer. you can apprentice and get all the skills you need. people in tech are just credentialist as fuck
[2023-10-16T12:35:38Z] <midfavila> you want underpaid, go be a manual labourer for a day
[2023-10-16T12:35:47Z] <midfavila> literal back-breaking work and you get barely enough to eat and sleep
[2023-10-16T12:35:54Z] <midfavila> smdh
[2023-10-16T12:36:51Z] <midfavila> and the former is questionable considering you won't have enough time to cook so you'll have to rely on other, equally poorly-paid people to cook for you
[2023-10-16T12:37:24Z] <midfavila> thereby playing into the whole ultraprocessed food industry thing
[2023-10-16T12:37:28Z] <midfavila> which destroys your health
[2023-10-16T12:37:34Z] <midfavila> in turn destroying your ability to work
[2023-10-16T12:37:40Z] <midfavila> you just get ground down at every possible opportunity
[2023-10-16T12:37:47Z] <midfavila> fuck
[2023-10-16T12:39:26Z] <vova_> Yeah, I mean dev jobs compared to manual labor jobs are way less harder physically, but, the mental impact is not easy too, when you're dev you have so many deadlines, so much pression for anything, because the boss thing it's vital to make a logo bounce, to send an email everyday to X or Y clients cause we need to keep them etc. I did both, I worked in factories when I was a student it was damn
[2023-10-16T12:39:26Z] <vova_> hard the first weeks on the body, but the mental charge was low, you can go there and be a zombie just doing the job without thinking about anything it's damn long I know but when you don't have choice... Dev jobs aren't easy tho, trust me, do a full month being a full time dev, you'll see how the mental charge is damn real. But honestly I understand you, but I'm quite shocked to hear how canada
[2023-10-16T12:39:26Z] <vova_> is a shit hole tbh, here in France canada is viewed as the paradise, like the worst you can get ? 35k$/year but don't worry the year after you'll be at 50k, and the year after 70k...
[2023-10-16T12:40:08Z] <midfavila> i get that the mental strain of a corporate office isn't exactly nil but like
[2023-10-16T12:40:21Z] <midfavila> the mental strain of being poor is entirely incomparable
[2023-10-16T12:40:32Z] <midfavila> you can't *sleep*, you can't *think*, you can't do *anything*
[2023-10-16T12:40:50Z] <midfavila> any second spent on something that doesn't provide a direct, immediate, guaranteed return induces crushing existential anxiety
[2023-10-16T12:41:12Z] <midfavila> you have to constantly sprint at full speed just to stay in place
[2023-10-16T12:41:34Z] <midfavila> it's the difference between self-actualization and eating, on the hierarchy of needs
[2023-10-16T12:42:03Z] <midfavila> i would *kill* for a factory job here
[2023-10-16T12:42:10Z] <midfavila> those tend to have benefits and pay better
[2023-10-16T12:42:20Z] <midfavila> as opposed to retail, which is viewed as "easy"
[2023-10-16T12:42:30Z] <midfavila> because "all you have to do is sit there and scan the code"
[2023-10-16T12:42:59Z] <midfavila> except no, i have to stand for eight hours straight, sometimes up to sixteen, even twenty, and get screamed at by hundreds of people every day all day for things i have no control over
[2023-10-16T12:43:45Z] <midfavila> i would much rather the mental strain of "oh no deadlines" than the mental strain of being constantly insulted and belittled and threatened, and the physical pain of my feet literally splitting apart after every shift
[2023-10-16T12:43:50Z] <midfavila> 's all i'm saying
[2023-10-16T12:44:08Z] <midfavila> and i mean, canada is good if you have money
[2023-10-16T12:44:12Z] <midfavila> like everywhere else in NA
[2023-10-16T12:44:16Z] <midfavila> but good luck
[2023-10-16T12:44:43Z] <midfavila> i have a diploma with honors and a letter of recommendation from a PhD and CEO with 30 years of experience under his belt and i can't even get a pre-interview
[2023-10-16T12:44:49Z] <midfavila> shit i can't even get a letter of rejection
[2023-10-16T12:44:56Z] <midfavila> over 400 applications, nothing
[2023-10-16T12:45:28Z] <midfavila> because, sure, you need a fucking bachelor's in CS to write javascript or python or C or whatever
[2023-10-16T12:45:29Z] * midfavila eyerolls
[2023-10-16T12:47:11Z] <midfavila> of course, "just get certs", but that's hundreds if not thousands of dollars per cert
[2023-10-16T12:47:27Z] <midfavila> not to mention travel costs because the closest test center for Pearson is in Toronto, which is halfway across the country
[2023-10-16T12:49:40Z] <vova_> wtf
[2023-10-16T12:49:59Z] <vova_> stand up for sixteen hours straight ?
[2023-10-16T12:50:01Z] <vova_> wtf man
[2023-10-16T12:50:05Z] <vova_> wtf is canada lol
[2023-10-16T12:50:18Z] <vova_> in France it's max 2 hours then you MUST have a 15min break
[2023-10-16T12:50:28Z] <midfavila> lmao
[2023-10-16T12:50:41Z] <midfavila> you get a thirty minute optional break after five hours of consecutive labor but it's unpaid
[2023-10-16T12:50:50Z] <midfavila> so nobody actually takes them
[2023-10-16T12:50:53Z] <vova_> Yeah in those condition I can't understand you, man even 5 hours straight must be painful AF
[2023-10-16T12:51:01Z] <midfavila> extremely
[2023-10-16T12:51:09Z] <midfavila> considering i don't even get like, a cushion or anything
[2023-10-16T12:51:11Z] <midfavila> just hard tile
[2023-10-16T12:51:18Z] <vova_> fuck canada
[2023-10-16T12:51:24Z] <midfavila> yyyyyyeah
[2023-10-16T12:51:29Z] <midfavila> like most people here want to move to europe lmao
[2023-10-16T12:51:40Z] <midfavila> canada is a shithole
[2023-10-16T12:51:45Z] <midfavila> almost america-tier
[2023-10-16T12:51:54Z] <vova_> Europe's work conditions are wayyyyyyyy better but good luck for finding a job lol
[2023-10-16T12:51:57Z] <midfavila> there are immigrants moving to canada and then immediately leaving for europe
[2023-10-16T12:51:58Z] <midfavila> oh
[2023-10-16T12:52:02Z] <midfavila> good luck finding a job here too
[2023-10-16T12:52:09Z] <midfavila> even minimum wage jobs are impossible now
[2023-10-16T12:52:18Z] <midfavila> the average person around my age works two or more jobs
[2023-10-16T12:52:25Z] <midfavila> three, sometimes four, plus usually something on the side
[2023-10-16T12:52:40Z] <midfavila> because you can't even get consistent full-time hours at one job
[2023-10-16T12:52:51Z] <midfavila> so you need like four or five casual positions but none of those provide consistent hours
[2023-10-16T12:52:58Z] <midfavila> so your sleep is also constantly getting fucked with
[2023-10-16T12:53:05Z] <midfavila> etc
[2023-10-16T12:53:51Z] <midfavila> it's a huge issue in the upcoming elections
[2023-10-16T12:53:56Z] <midfavila> canadian politics is wild right now
[2023-10-16T12:54:13Z] <midfavila> the conservatives are coming out swinging for the first time in like
[2023-10-16T12:54:19Z] <midfavila> ...well, the first time since i've been born
[2023-10-16T12:54:35Z] <midfavila> trudeau has absolutely demolished the economy
[2023-10-16T12:54:39Z] <midfavila> and the housing market
[2023-10-16T12:54:59Z] <midfavila> like food right now is experiencing 9% inflation per month on top of the inflation for CAD which is like 3%
[2023-10-16T12:55:09Z] <midfavila> and that's projected to continue last i checked
[2023-10-16T12:56:51Z] <midfavila> the NDP is useless too. they're part of a coalition with the liberals to prop up their minority government if the liberals pass bills in support of their platform
[2023-10-16T12:56:55Z] <midfavila> which would be a huge relief
[2023-10-16T12:57:04Z] <midfavila> considering that would put pharma under medicare
[2023-10-16T12:57:10Z] <midfavila> as well as dental, optical, and more
[2023-10-16T12:57:22Z] <midfavila> but so far we've only gotten a limited form of social dental
[2023-10-16T12:57:33Z] <midfavila> government will pay to rip your teeth out but not prevent them from needing to be ripped out
[2023-10-16T12:58:06Z] <midfavila> blah
[2023-10-16T12:58:09Z] <midfavila> i could go on for hours
[2023-10-16T12:58:27Z] <vova_> good luck anyway
[2023-10-16T12:58:30Z] <vova_> that'
[2023-10-16T12:58:33Z] <vova_> that's not a life
[2023-10-16T12:58:50Z] <midfavila> nope lmao
[2023-10-16T12:59:19Z] <midfavila> but vova_ you have to workworkworkworkworkworkworkworkworkworkworkworkworkworkwork and respect the INDIVIDUAL FREEDOMS!!!! of your employer
[2023-10-16T12:59:31Z] <midfavila> or else you're a bad no good lazy horrible stupid awful communist
[2023-10-16T12:59:38Z] <midfavila> and honestly you should just die
[2023-10-16T12:59:39Z] <midfavila> smdh
[2023-10-16T13:02:04Z] <midfavila> shit that reminds me i have to write the teamsters again
[2023-10-16T13:02:20Z] <midfavila> i'm close to getting my workplace unionized, but i don't know if i can proceed because i might face retaliation
[2023-10-16T19:18:32Z] <sewn> aw man what a adult conversation
[2023-10-16T19:18:38Z] <sewn> cant wait to participate in 6 years
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