[2023-03-24T01:12:33Z] <Ellowee[m]> <midfavila> "https://teddit.net/r/AskHR/..." <- BASED
[2023-03-24T01:15:01Z] <Ellowee[m]> Reading comments, lame
[2023-03-24T01:15:33Z] <midfavila> it's standard 115 IQ holier than thou bullshit
[2023-03-24T01:17:23Z] <Ellowee[m]> Only one sane comment in there
[2023-03-24T01:19:24Z] * midfavila shrugs
[2023-03-24T01:35:03Z] <Ellowee[m]> <midfavila> "https://teddit.net/r/AskHR/..." <- >Uwu poor it on budget
[2023-03-24T01:35:03Z] <Ellowee[m]> I hate paid freedom detractors
[2023-03-24T01:35:16Z] <Ellowee[m]> * >Uwu poor IT on budget
[2023-03-24T01:35:16Z] <Ellowee[m]> I hate paid freedom detractors
[2023-03-24T01:47:26Z] <midfavila> i just hate redditors
[2023-03-24T06:13:06Z] <sad_plan> hi
[2023-03-24T06:29:59Z] <sewn> hi
[2023-03-24T06:44:51Z] <sad_plan> cool. framework has announced they are now going to have amd cpus available aswell. even a new 16" laptop too is comming later
[2023-03-24T06:46:02Z] <sad_plan> https://frame.work/blog/introducing-the-framework-laptop-16
[2023-03-24T06:50:28Z] <sewn> weoohoo
[2023-03-24T06:51:27Z] <sad_plan> :D
[2023-03-24T08:10:23Z] <testuser[m]123> Hi
[2023-03-24T08:21:34Z] <sad_plan> hi
[2023-03-24T08:53:13Z] <sad_plan> sewn, can you test if this builds fine for you without autotools? im onto something on building tinyx without autotools http://0x0.st/Hobk.tar.gz
[2023-03-24T08:53:25Z] <sad_plan> neccessary libs is in kiss-xorg
[2023-03-24T08:55:20Z] <sad_plan> I added it in the PR over at kiss-xorg aswell, if you havent noticed already
[2023-03-24T08:55:23Z] <sewn> why the hell are you building without autotools
[2023-03-24T08:55:59Z] <sewn> its a package that will be installed and can just be removed after compiling
[2023-03-24T08:56:00Z] <sewn> theres no harm
[2023-03-24T08:56:55Z] <sad_plan> less packages to build initially. like perl.
[2023-03-24T08:57:39Z] <sewn> but its harmless and automatic can can be removed
[2023-03-24T08:57:51Z] <sad_plan> if you dont need autotools, that 4 less packages needed to build tinyx
[2023-03-24T08:58:07Z] <sad_plan> I know, but what if I dont want perl on my system? or autotools for that matter
[2023-03-24T08:58:13Z] <sewn> i said they can be removed
[2023-03-24T08:58:30Z] <sewn> also, xclip depends on autoconf as well
[2023-03-24T08:58:47Z] <sad_plan> obviously, but this isnt why id asked you to check if it builds. I already know youre critical against this
[2023-03-24T08:58:53Z] <sewn> it builds
[2023-03-24T08:58:54Z] <sad_plan> I know, so do xsel, which I use
[2023-03-24T08:58:59Z] <sewn> bruh
[2023-03-24T08:59:00Z] <sad_plan> thank you
[2023-03-24T08:59:21Z] <sewn> if xsel depends on autoconf, which you use, how come you allow it to use autoconf
[2023-03-24T08:59:29Z] <sewn> its easy to be removed after intsallation
[2023-03-24T08:59:34Z] <sad_plan> I initially dont
[2023-03-24T08:59:55Z] <sad_plan> both xclip and xsel depends on it. I just havent gotten around removing it yet
[2023-03-24T09:00:07Z] <sad_plan> also, I dont use xsel that often
[2023-03-24T09:00:22Z] <sad_plan> very rearly now that I think about it
[2023-03-24T09:00:30Z] <sewn> omg bleh
[2023-03-24T09:00:42Z] <sad_plan> anyway, thanks for checking if it builds
[2023-03-24T09:00:45Z] <sewn> im with you but im not with how complex it is to maintain a non autoconf tinyx
[2023-03-24T09:01:02Z] <sewn> its gonna be horrible to maintain, but you said you're fine with it so
[2023-03-24T09:01:23Z] <sad_plan> tinyx recieves very little changes over time, so I dont think this is an issue at all tbh
[2023-03-24T09:01:30Z] <sewn> ahhhhhhhh
[2023-03-24T09:02:28Z] <sad_plan> it has 38 commits to begin with. and last commit was nov 7, last year, and the one before that, was jan 23 2021. so.. not much work tbh :p
[2023-03-24T10:42:51Z] <midfavila> sewn: autotools restricts you to GNU m4
[2023-03-24T10:42:58Z] <midfavila> removing autotools removes GNU m4
[2023-03-24T10:43:23Z] <sewn> i have gnu m4 on my system
[2023-03-24T10:43:30Z] <sewn> without autoconf or automake
[2023-03-24T10:43:55Z] <midfavila> as an implicit dependency
[2023-03-24T10:44:01Z] <midfavila> i figured that much was obvious
[2023-03-24T10:44:06Z] <sewn> what
[2023-03-24T10:44:23Z] <midfavila> if you use any packages that rely on autotools, you need gnu m4 and gnu make
[2023-03-24T10:44:32Z] <midfavila> by not doing that, you don't
[2023-03-24T10:45:09Z] <sewn> oh ok
[2023-03-24T10:45:21Z] <sewn> well kiss uses gnu make so
[2023-03-24T10:45:59Z] <midfavila> kiss' rootfs also uses gcc, what's your point?
[2023-03-24T10:46:15Z] <sewn> woah chill
[2023-03-24T10:46:20Z] <midfavila> i don't think i will
[2023-03-24T10:46:27Z] <midfavila> i just woke up and don't have patience for this shit
[2023-03-24T11:05:29Z] <sad_plan> hm now I got curious if I could build tinyx without gmake to begin with. or the whole stack for that matter. both pdpmake and bmake has been used or mentioned earlier several times.
[2023-03-24T13:01:43Z] <sewn> had split packages proposal in kiss ever been discussed before?
[2023-03-24T13:02:07Z] <sad_plan> sounds somewhat familiar
[2023-03-24T13:02:14Z] <sad_plan> what do you have in mind?
[2023-03-24T13:03:04Z] <drez> how difficult does it tend to be to port packages from autotools to BSD-compatible makefiles?
[2023-03-24T13:03:27Z] <sad_plan> bsd include autotools afaik
[2023-03-24T13:03:32Z] <drez> ._.
[2023-03-24T13:03:32Z] <sad_plan> atleast pkgsrc for netbsd
[2023-03-24T13:03:45Z] <sad_plan> I dont have a list over how many of them use autotools though
[2023-03-24T13:03:46Z] <drez> ok but bmake-compatible
[2023-03-24T13:03:49Z] <drez> netbsd make
[2023-03-24T13:03:59Z] <drez> is make standardized? then, I mean standard make
[2023-03-24T13:04:05Z] <drez> files
[2023-03-24T13:04:19Z] <sad_plan> so gmake then. is basically the standard
[2023-03-24T13:04:33Z] <drez> buh
[2023-03-24T13:04:39Z] <drez> bmake-compatible
[2023-03-24T13:04:52Z] <sad_plan> yeah. I do however know alot of stuff does work with bmake, or even pdpmake
[2023-03-24T13:05:08Z] <drez> Yeah quite a bit of stuff
[2023-03-24T13:05:12Z] <sad_plan> I know did some testing here earlier. theres an issue about it as a proposal
[2023-03-24T13:05:31Z] <sad_plan> https://codeberg.org/kiss-community/repo/issues/124
[2023-03-24T13:06:17Z] <drez> interdasting
[2023-03-24T13:06:17Z] <drez> also, what do you guys think about a makefile-centric distro such as morpheus?
[2023-03-24T13:06:22Z] <sad_plan> theres also a comment there outlining what doesnt build with.. soemthing else. not sure if he used pdpmake or just bmake
[2023-03-24T13:06:39Z] <drez> it does not seem like morpheus survived very long
[2023-03-24T13:07:03Z] <drez> while the biggest hack, but also the grandpappy, of musl distros is still around : sabotage
[2023-03-24T13:07:04Z] <sad_plan> I actually thing morpheus is abit of bullshit.. they claim is mkbased.. but the mkfiles just.. calls make
[2023-03-24T13:07:21Z] <drez> do they? I don't recall that
[2023-03-24T13:07:23Z] <sewn> <sad_plan> "what do you have in mind?" <- idk
[2023-03-24T13:07:30Z] <sewn> just curious if anyone had wanted
[2023-03-24T13:07:31Z] <sewn> it
[2023-03-24T13:07:46Z] <sad_plan> yeah, look at the 'buildscripts' drez
[2023-03-24T13:07:58Z] <sewn> i dont know of any usecase, simply be able to split packages, same source but different package output similar to -devel and other things
[2023-03-24T13:08:11Z] <sad_plan> also, sabotage is cool. but I belive the repo is a mess. its not structured so its easy to see what packages is what..
[2023-03-24T13:08:18Z] <sad_plan> they got several packages for gcc i.e.
[2023-03-24T13:08:19Z] <drez> http://git.2f30.org/ports/file/tinyxserver/Makefile.html oh yah, derp
[2023-03-24T13:08:34Z] <drez> sad_plan: yes like gcc474 or gcc650
[2023-03-24T13:08:36Z] <drez> stuff like that
[2023-03-24T13:08:44Z] <sad_plan> sewn, so basically harfbuzz-icu?
[2023-03-24T13:08:44Z] <drez> I used it before
[2023-03-24T13:08:51Z] <sewn> sad_plan: yep like that
[2023-03-24T13:09:15Z] <drez> it's not that unorganized, but the package manager and build chain are arcane
[2023-03-24T13:09:25Z] <sad_plan> drez, was it any good though?
[2023-03-24T13:09:26Z] <sad_plan> sure.
[2023-03-24T13:09:29Z] <drez> it was good
[2023-03-24T13:09:36Z] <drez> I ported it to the wii one time
[2023-03-24T13:09:48Z] <drez> I enjoyed it
[2023-03-24T13:09:54Z] <sad_plan> I was considering trying it, but I had some issues with the bootstrapping, so I sortof.. gave up. I didnt really bother
[2023-03-24T13:10:01Z] <drez> bootstrapping was not easy
[2023-03-24T13:10:07Z] <drez> but I can't say how easy it is on amd64
[2023-03-24T13:10:11Z] <drez> I basically only tried it for powerpc
[2023-03-24T13:10:37Z] <drez> and since I had to make a new kernel package, build the cross toolchain etc that made it more difficult
[2023-03-24T13:10:45Z] <sad_plan> I see
[2023-03-24T13:10:56Z] <sad_plan> I kinda like oasis more. its simpler
[2023-03-24T13:11:05Z] <sad_plan> or kiss for that matter, but in regards to statically linked
[2023-03-24T13:11:08Z] <drez> I would say it is simpler indeed
[2023-03-24T13:11:11Z] <sad_plan> yeah
[2023-03-24T13:11:33Z] <drez> I do like sabotage's maintainer's software choices quite a bit
[2023-03-24T13:11:47Z] <drez> the biggest browser ported is pale moon
[2023-03-24T13:11:57Z] <sad_plan> isnt that the main browser?
[2023-03-24T13:12:05Z] <sad_plan> instead of firefox or something else..
[2023-03-24T13:12:05Z] <drez> yes the main browser
[2023-03-24T13:12:07Z] <drez> in the distro
[2023-03-24T13:12:16Z] <drez> as for firefox, only 52esr
[2023-03-24T13:12:18Z] <drez> no rust
[2023-03-24T13:12:23Z] <sad_plan> I do find that to be abit of an odd choice, but sure. why not
[2023-03-24T13:12:25Z] <sad_plan> aaaah
[2023-03-24T13:12:28Z] <sad_plan> I see now. that makes sence
[2023-03-24T13:12:39Z] <sad_plan> so he doesnt have to bother with rust at all
[2023-03-24T13:12:42Z] <sad_plan> clever
[2023-03-24T13:12:52Z] <drez> yes he keeps his distro fairly clean
[2023-03-24T13:13:03Z] <drez> i say 'he' because of course, it is practically maintained by one guy
[2023-03-24T13:13:08Z] <sad_plan> except for the pkg dir that is :p but yeah
[2023-03-24T13:13:11Z] <drez> all through these 10 yrs
[2023-03-24T13:13:23Z] <drez> 12 yrs now
[2023-03-24T13:13:24Z] <sad_plan> but the one thats currently used, is actually a fork, iirc
[2023-03-24T13:13:30Z] <drez> really ?
[2023-03-24T13:13:39Z] <drez> oh of course it was forked from leah2
[2023-03-24T13:13:48Z] <drez> but that was a long time
[2023-03-24T13:13:53Z] <sad_plan> I think so. I may be wrong. I seem to recall soemthing like that when reading about it on their website or someplace
[2023-03-24T13:13:57Z] <sad_plan> yeah
[2023-03-24T13:14:10Z] <drez> https://sabotage-linux.neocities.org/blog/
[2023-03-24T13:17:25Z] <drez> > but that was a long time | *ago
[2023-03-24T13:23:20Z] <sad_plan> I remember that blogpost
[2023-03-24T20:10:55Z] <midfavila> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/a-barber-got-beef-and-potatoes-from-customer-instead-of-pay-bartering-isn-t-so-unusual-in-this-tough-economy-1.6789521
[2023-03-24T20:10:57Z] <midfavila> mfw
[2023-03-24T21:21:22Z] <Ellowee[m]> Bartering isn't taxable I think
[2023-03-24T21:24:12Z] <midfavila> it's also not going to pay your rent
[2023-03-24T21:24:32Z] <midfavila> well, not usually anyway
[2023-03-24T21:27:12Z] <midfavila> https://invidious.sethforprivacy.com/watch?v=q1HZj40ZQrM
[2023-03-24T21:29:01Z] <midfavila> truly dystopic
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