[2022-02-13T00:04:46Z] <midfavila-laptop> sdorfehs, yeah
[2022-02-13T00:04:51Z] <midfavila-laptop> i'm not super into tilers though
[2022-02-13T00:05:47Z] <midfavila-laptop> it also seems kind of bloated n g l
[2022-02-13T00:07:34Z] <midfavila-laptop> if 9wm had I3CM and partial EWMH and nixed the window decor I'd probably just use it
[2022-02-13T00:16:56Z] <maximum_yellow> midfavila-laptop if you were to write i stripped-down manual tiler i'd be interested, just saying
[2022-02-13T00:24:22Z] <midfavila-laptop> Fair enough! I'd like to try my hand at a standalone tiling management program at *some* point, for what it's worth
[2022-02-13T00:25:46Z] <midfavila-laptop> Once I understand C more, I'll be writing a lot of window managers, I think - there've been a bunch of ideas bouncing around on notes
[2022-02-13T00:27:05Z] <midfavila-laptop> Long road until I'm at that point, though, I think
[2022-02-13T00:28:56Z] <maximum_yellow> cool, i look forward to seeing the results
[2022-02-13T00:29:55Z] * midfavila-laptop nodnods
[2022-02-13T00:30:19Z] <midfavila-laptop> Before any of that happens though, I want to try and remove gcc from my fork's base install
[2022-02-13T00:30:24Z] <midfavila-laptop> Already removed git and curl
[2022-02-13T00:30:58Z] <midfavila-laptop> hoping I can write a simple HTTP agent soon:tm:
[2022-02-13T00:33:22Z] <midfavila-laptop> http://0x0.st/oXFr.png
[2022-02-13T00:33:22Z] <midfavila-laptop> today's been spent on Xaw
[2022-02-13T00:33:38Z] <midfavila-laptop> patched XLess and XRN to handle TrueType when linked against Xaw3dXft
[2022-02-13T00:34:05Z] <midfavila-laptop> barely increased runtime memory requirements which is really nice
[2022-02-13T00:44:45Z] <maximum_yellow> midfavila-laptop interesting, are you using clang? or perhaps something more exotic like cproc or tcc?
[2022-02-13T00:45:33Z] <midfavila-laptop> yesn't
[2022-02-13T00:45:34Z] <midfavila-laptop> pcc
[2022-02-13T00:45:40Z] <midfavila-laptop> aka the one true unix C compiler
[2022-02-13T00:45:47Z] <midfavila-laptop> aka "that thing from system five"
[2022-02-13T00:46:04Z] * maximum_yellow has never heard of that
[2022-02-13T00:46:29Z] <midfavila-laptop> it was (one of?) the first portable C compiler
[2022-02-13T00:46:50Z] <midfavila-laptop> the original UNIX C compiler relied on a hand-written parser and intricate knowledge of the PDP-11's register architecture
[2022-02-13T00:46:55Z] <maximum_yellow> interesting
[2022-02-13T00:47:16Z] <midfavila-laptop> that's also the source of the "You aren't expected to understand this." comment for unix v6's process management code
[2022-02-13T00:47:20Z] <maximum_yellow> what do you use xaw for? writing your own gui stuff or are there still programmes built against it?
[2022-02-13T00:47:26Z] <maximum_yellow> hah, til
[2022-02-13T00:47:37Z] <midfavila-laptop> there are older programs that rely on the Athena widgets that I use daily
[2022-02-13T00:47:48Z] <midfavila-laptop> namely XDM, XTerm, XLess and XCalc
[2022-02-13T00:48:00Z] <midfavila-laptop> but I intend to use Athena as the basis for my own GUI programs
[2022-02-13T00:48:20Z] <maximum_yellow> any reason in particular compared to, say, motif or fltk or others?
[2022-02-13T00:48:51Z] <midfavila-laptop> it's entirely C, it's a very small widget set in terms of codebase size and number of widgets, it's designed to be extended, and it's exceptionally efficient, even compared to motif and fltk
[2022-02-13T00:49:05Z] <midfavila-laptop> it also maintains backward and forward API and ABI compatiblity between forks
[2022-02-13T00:49:26Z] <midfavila-laptop> so a program compiled against Xaw will work against Xaw3d, Xaw3dXft, Xaw3dXpm, neXtaw, XawPlus, and so on
[2022-02-13T00:49:28Z] <maximum_yellow> i'm impressed, i thought that fltk took the small/light title but i suppose it aims to be more feature complete
[2022-02-13T00:49:33Z] <maximum_yellow> huh
[2022-02-13T00:49:45Z] <midfavila-laptop> Yeah. FLTK is also cross-platform - the Athena spec is *exclusively* X11
[2022-02-13T00:50:14Z] <midfavila-laptop> it's probably the closest Unix has to a platform-specific GUI toolkit
[2022-02-13T00:50:20Z] <midfavila-laptop> since even Motif is cross-platform
[2022-02-13T00:50:59Z] <midfavila-laptop> but yeah Xaw3dXft, which is an extended version of Xaw3d, itself an extension of Xaw, is only around 30k lines of C, including headers
[2022-02-13T00:51:01Z] <maximum_yellow> i'm not convinced that that's a benefit, but sure
[2022-02-13T00:51:17Z] <maximum_yellow> (the cross platform thing)
[2022-02-13T00:51:25Z] <midfavila-laptop> for comparison, XTerm is ~75k
[2022-02-13T00:51:25Z] <midfavila-laptop> and I mean, it's not if you do cross-platform programming
[2022-02-13T00:51:44Z] <maximum_yellow> 30k is impressive, though i wonder what sort of `modern' niceities it's missing
[2022-02-13T00:51:55Z] <midfavila-laptop> in terms of aesthetics? a lot
[2022-02-13T00:51:59Z] <midfavila-laptop> it's uh
[2022-02-13T00:52:03Z] <midfavila-laptop> "spartan" is being polite
[2022-02-13T00:52:11Z] <maximum_yellow> right, but i mean even widget wise
[2022-02-13T00:52:52Z] <midfavila-laptop> well, it has text sinks, command buttons, radio and checkboxes, a clock widget, graph widget, and a bunch of other primitives
[2022-02-13T00:53:20Z] <midfavila-laptop> the thing about Xaw though is that if you need more specialized widgets, you can almost certainly find ones that are suitable online
[2022-02-13T00:53:32Z] <midfavila-laptop> or just like, write them, if it's *really* necessary
[2022-02-13T00:53:40Z] <phoebos> illiliti: do you have libxml2 installed
[2022-02-13T00:54:55Z] <midfavila-laptop> i think the main big widget that's missing is a notebook widget. with tabs and stuff
[2022-02-13T00:55:09Z] <midfavila-laptop> but not entirely sure
[2022-02-13T00:55:20Z] <maximum_yellow> hmm
[2022-02-13T00:55:29Z] <maximum_yellow> well sounds like a fun exercise in minimalism
[2022-02-13T00:55:54Z] <midfavila-laptop> Mmh. The important part is that it gets me programming
[2022-02-13T00:56:18Z] <midfavila-laptop> If I can remove GTK2 from my system in the process, all the better
[2022-02-13T00:56:39Z] <maximum_yellow> what's the matter with GTK2?
[2022-02-13T00:57:32Z] <midfavila-laptop> Explicitly unsupported, not even for maintenance, wildly complex codebase, difficult to work with (in my limited experience), slow and heavy compared to Xaw and Motif, doesn't work well over networks...
[2022-02-13T00:57:54Z] <midfavila-laptop> customization of GTK2 is becoming harder and harder as time goes on and existing resources suffer from bitrot, too
[2022-02-13T00:58:39Z] <maximum_yellow> fair, i hadn't realised it was EOL
[2022-02-13T00:58:44Z] <midfavila-laptop> it's been EOL for years
[2022-02-13T00:58:58Z] * maximum_yellow doesn't really pay attention to what GTK is doing
[2022-02-13T00:59:06Z] <midfavila-laptop> i don't either tbqh :P
[2022-02-13T00:59:13Z] <illiliti> phoebos: build still fails even with libxml2
[2022-02-13T00:59:25Z] <illiliti> Error: Install DocBook DTDs or './configure --disable-doc'
[2022-02-13T00:59:45Z] <phoebos> do you have a /bin/xmlcatalog
[2022-02-13T01:01:20Z] <illiliti> yep
[2022-02-13T01:02:10Z] <phoebos> if you're building from community try doing https://tmp.bvnf.space/0001-neomutt-fix-build-without-libxml2.patch
[2022-02-13T01:02:19Z] <phoebos> replace xmlcatalog with /bin/true
[2022-02-13T01:04:55Z] <illiliti> it works thanks
[2022-02-13T01:05:09Z] <phoebos> thanks for letting me know
[2022-02-13T01:05:12Z] <phoebos> dilyn: https://tmp.bvnf.space/0001-neomutt-fix-build-without-libxml2.patch
[2022-02-13T01:05:34Z] <phoebos> i should really make fresh chroots each time i build a package
[2022-02-13T01:05:56Z] <phoebos> or we should switch to something like nix for "reproducible builds"
[2022-02-13T01:05:57Z] <midfavila-laptop> yeah that's a good idea
[2022-02-13T01:06:01Z] <midfavila-laptop> re:chroots
[2022-02-13T01:06:06Z] <phoebos> mhm
[2022-02-13T01:06:10Z] <illiliti> we should really have ci
[2022-02-13T01:06:14Z] <phoebos> ^
[2022-02-13T01:06:15Z] <midfavila-laptop> i build each of the packages in my ports/official in a fresh env
[2022-02-13T01:06:22Z] <midfavila-laptop> "ci"?
[2022-02-13T01:06:44Z] <phoebos> continuous integration? i.e. automatic builds on each commit
[2022-02-13T01:06:53Z] <midfavila-laptop> Aah.
[2022-02-13T01:07:07Z] <midfavila-laptop> I'm not much of a devops guy fwiw
[2022-02-13T01:08:30Z] <midfavila-laptop> I wonder if I could set that up on SDF...
[2022-02-13T01:08:39Z] <midfavila-laptop> feel like membership would get pretty pissy at me though lmao
[2022-02-13T01:09:08Z] <midfavila-laptop> "hey we've noticed you're using 70%+ CPU time - can you like don't"
[2022-02-13T01:09:17Z] <phoebos> https://builds.sr.ht does it nicely for some projects
[2022-02-13T01:09:45Z] <phoebos> or https://github.com/kristapsdz/minci/
[2022-02-13T01:13:22Z] <midfavila-laptop> nifty
[2022-02-13T01:16:28Z] <phoebos> is github/jedahan on here? kiss-find's build has been failing for 10 days
[2022-02-13T02:30:29Z] <rohan> hi guys
[2022-02-13T02:30:40Z] <rohan> anyone know something about cgroups?
[2022-02-13T03:55:53Z] <testuser[m]> Hi
[2022-02-13T04:30:19Z] <rohan> hi
[2022-02-13T04:30:29Z] <midfavila-laptop> hi
[2022-02-13T05:16:56Z] <testuser[m]> https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/privacy-preserving-attribution-for-advertising/
[2022-02-13T05:16:59Z] <testuser[m]> > we have been working with a team from Meta (formerly Facebook)
[2022-02-13T05:17:08Z] <testuser[m]> 🤨
[2022-02-13T05:17:13Z] <midfavila-laptop> saw that a while ago. pozilla at it again
[2022-02-13T17:52:09Z] <mmatongo> Anyone one?
[2022-02-13T17:58:26Z] <testuser[m]> Wat
[2022-02-13T18:39:11Z] <phoebos> hei mmatongo
[2022-02-13T18:39:24Z] <mmatongo> Hi guys
[2022-02-13T18:39:45Z] <phoebos> how's it
[2022-02-13T18:40:06Z] <mmatongo> all good, just a little exhausted from the day
[2022-02-13T18:40:09Z] <mmatongo> You?
[2022-02-13T18:40:34Z] <phoebos> also tired. spent the whole day avoiding doing actual work though
[2022-02-13T18:40:42Z] <phoebos> been playing with uxn instead of writing my lab report
[2022-02-13T18:41:25Z] <mmatongo> What is uxn
[2022-02-13T18:42:10Z] <phoebos> https://wiki.xxiivv.com/site/uxn.html
[2022-02-13T18:42:12Z] <mmatongo> I've been trying to figure out why node on Kiss and it's derivatives doesn't compile right
[2022-02-13T18:42:24Z] <phoebos> virtual machine with 32 opcodes
[2022-02-13T18:42:38Z] <phoebos> it's very simple and very easy to do graphics and music etc
[2022-02-13T18:43:30Z] <testuser[m]> mmatongo: cuz node is haram
[2022-02-13T18:43:30Z] <mmatongo> giving me plan9 vibes
[2022-02-13T18:44:09Z] <mmatongo> testuser[m]: but I need it :(
[2022-02-13T18:44:21Z] <phoebos> :(
[2022-02-13T18:45:23Z] <mmatongo> https://github.com/oznu/alpine-node found that as a temp fix for my problems
[2022-02-13T20:08:36Z] <illiliti> https://github.com/kiss-community/community/issues/976
[2022-02-13T20:15:31Z] <illiliti> go ecosystem is deeply flawed you see
[2022-02-13T20:15:48Z] <illiliti> rust in the same boat
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