2021-04-03T02:53:07 #kisslinux <acheam> dilyn: might want to check that this section is up to date
2021-04-03T02:53:17 #kisslinux <acheam> https://i.imgur.com/wLQTtg3.png
2021-04-03T05:30:05 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> hi
2021-04-03T05:35:42 #kisslinux <travankor> hi
2021-04-03T13:59:42 #kisslinux <acheam> hi
2021-04-03T14:00:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> ih
2021-04-03T14:04:17 #kisslinux <acheam> I love how perl yells at you for not running `make test` before installing it
2021-04-03T14:32:07 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> kiss revdep detector is broken with ksh
2021-04-03T14:32:14 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> weird
2021-04-03T14:32:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> the x264 package is also broken with ksh iirc
2021-04-03T14:32:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> i ran into some syntax errors the other night
2021-04-03T14:33:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...that's likely their fault though
2021-04-03T14:53:12 #kisslinux <acheam> argh I have't been ale to get kiss up and running in a vm on my server
2021-04-03T14:53:27 #kisslinux <acheam> it just doesn't find grub
2021-04-03T14:54:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> >using grub
2021-04-03T14:54:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> literally install extlinux
2021-04-03T14:54:35 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> why in a vm on vps ?
2021-04-03T14:55:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> presumably so that he doesn't lose all his services having to reboot
2021-04-03T14:55:19 #kisslinux <acheam> not on a vps, on my own hardware, testuser_[m]
2021-04-03T14:56:12 #kisslinux <acheam> midfavila: that's my next shot
2021-04-03T14:56:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> you really should just do it
2021-04-03T14:56:42 #kisslinux <acheam> I might just go kiss on bare metal though
2021-04-03T14:56:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> grub is a bitch
2021-04-03T14:56:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> extlinux is a chad
2021-04-03T14:56:57 #kisslinux <acheam> I just used it because its the "reccomended" way
2021-04-03T14:57:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah well the recommended way is stupid
2021-04-03T14:57:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> and it should really be changed
2021-04-03T14:57:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> GRUB isn't exactly KISS imho
2021-04-03T14:59:17 #kisslinux <acheam> yes
2021-04-03T14:59:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> extlinux strikes a good balance between functionality and simplicity
2021-04-03T15:01:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> anyway in case anyone's interested the nuegia browser should be available as both a binary and source package by the end of the day
2021-04-03T15:01:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> finally got around to bothering with that
2021-04-03T15:08:07 #kisslinux <acheam> how again is neugia navigator different than palememe?
2021-04-03T15:08:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> no proprietary squiggles, more stuff is disabled out of the box e.g webrtc, different about:config stuff, and there are some minor performance optimizations
2021-04-03T15:10:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> it also specifically targets GTK2
2021-04-03T15:10:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> in case you're a stickler about that
2021-04-03T15:10:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> (but it can be built with 3)
2021-04-03T15:24:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> hmm
2021-04-03T15:24:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> looks like kiss doesn't like cloning from nuegia's git server
2021-04-03T15:25:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> or *something*. it's not pulling the whole repo, nor is it recursively cloning submodules.
2021-04-03T15:25:58 #kisslinux <aarng> <testuser_[m]> kiss revdep detector is broken with ksh
2021-04-03T15:26:11 #kisslinux <aarng> that is very weird, given it's a 3 line script
2021-04-03T15:26:29 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> I made a GH issue, seems to be broken substitution on ksh only
2021-04-03T15:27:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...is it not possible to invoke git from within a build script?
2021-04-03T15:27:22 #kisslinux <aarng> oh, this is not about kiss-revdepends
2021-04-03T15:27:42 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Lol idk why I said revdep detector
2021-04-03T15:27:44 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Sorry
2021-04-03T15:28:24 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> It's the ldd/readelf thing in kiss
2021-04-03T15:28:40 #kisslinux <aarng> we just need to escape the [
2021-04-03T15:53:12 #kisslinux <dilyn> by default the package manager only does a shallow clone of repositories
2021-04-03T15:53:23 #kisslinux <dilyn> but you can do git submodule update --init in the build script to pull in all the submodules
2021-04-03T15:53:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> acheam: is that the website? I beleive that's the my key I just forgot to change Dylan's name >.<  f
2021-04-03T15:54:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> I'm trying to do a recursive submodule pull and it's not working.
2021-04-03T15:54:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> Doesn't have any report to stdout or stderr either.
2021-04-03T15:54:45 #kisslinux <dilyn> how is that repo setting up their submodules...
2021-04-03T15:54:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> I did it yesterday with a package I was testing and it reported everything it was up to, worked just fine
2021-04-03T15:55:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> Not entirely sure on the particulars. I don't really use git all that often
2021-04-03T15:55:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> fwiw manually running my build script after running a regular clone works just fine
2021-04-03T15:55:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> hm
2021-04-03T15:56:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> https://git.nuegia.net/webbrowser.git
2021-04-03T15:56:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> in case you wanted to check
2021-04-03T15:57:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> lmao i can't view .gitmodules in their tree XD
2021-04-03T15:58:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> they want me to clone their whole repo just to see... smh
2021-04-03T15:58:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> f
2021-04-03T15:59:30 #kisslinux <konimex> why bother with git sources anyway? don't they have a release tarball?
2021-04-03T15:59:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> the tarballs don't seem to include UXP
2021-04-03T15:59:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> which is what's normally pulled in through submodules
2021-04-03T16:01:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> there's nothing fancy or special in their .gitmodule so I am not certain why kiss wouldn't do it
2021-04-03T16:01:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> fwiw during the initial clone it spits out fatal: dumb http transport does not support shallow capabilities
2021-04-03T16:01:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...also seems to miss about 300 files
2021-04-03T16:01:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> so uh
2021-04-03T16:01:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah
2021-04-03T16:02:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> did some searching and apparently that'd be an issue on nuegia's side of things
2021-04-03T16:02:33 #kisslinux <dilyn> lmao
2021-04-03T16:02:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> but if what you said is true about shallow pulls then yeah
2021-04-03T16:02:53 #kisslinux <midfavila> that'd presumably be the problem
2021-04-03T16:03:05 #kisslinux <acheam> dilyn: les
2021-04-03T16:03:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> "fatal: dumb http transport does not support shallow capabilities" hm
2021-04-03T16:03:06 #kisslinux <acheam> yes
2021-04-03T16:03:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'd store a snapshot tarball on SDF but that would exceed my disk quota
2021-04-03T16:03:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> and I'd like to not get on the bad side of the sysops
2021-04-03T16:04:43 #kisslinux <dilyn> fight the ops
2021-04-03T16:05:04 #kisslinux <acheam> whats the quota?
2021-04-03T16:05:05 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'm already bullying them about scheme and common lisp restrictions
2021-04-03T16:05:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> they let you use guile but not scheme or clisp which is retarded
2021-04-03T16:05:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> and the disk quota for ARPA users (my group) is 600mb or... I think 150k files
2021-04-03T16:05:45 #kisslinux <acheam> ouch
2021-04-03T16:05:59 #kisslinux <midfavila> well, it's not a hard quota, nor is SDF's main instance for file storage :p
2021-04-03T16:06:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's more of an honor system
2021-04-03T16:06:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> tl;dr anything above your quota is liable to be deleted at any moment the second someone else needs that space and it's within their quota
2021-04-03T16:07:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> and the tarball with all submodules for nuegia's browser is... almost a full gig. even compressed with bzip2
2021-04-03T16:09:25 #kisslinux <acheam> dilyn: there are still links to kiss.armaanb.net on k1sslinux.org
2021-04-03T16:09:36 #kisslinux <acheam> see: http://k1sslinux.org/wiki/storage/disks#5.0
2021-04-03T16:09:44 #kisslinux <dilyn> ah they're on the wiki
2021-04-03T16:10:51 #kisslinux <acheam> also you might consider linking to that page from the install guide
2021-04-03T16:11:23 #kisslinux <dilyn> Yes! Thank you for the reminder!
2021-04-03T16:17:37 #kisslinux <acheam> no problem :)
2021-04-03T16:22:07 #kisslinux <dilyn> site should be updated :o
2021-04-03T16:22:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> :ooo
2021-04-03T16:22:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> every time I see that, I mentally picture a soy face
2021-04-03T16:23:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> as you should
2021-04-03T16:23:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> lmao
2021-04-03T16:24:21 #kisslinux <acheam> :)
2021-04-03T16:24:47 #kisslinux <acheam> also
2021-04-03T16:24:58 #kisslinux <acheam> one more bump about submitting issues/PRs via email
2021-04-03T16:25:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> bomp
2021-04-03T16:25:13 #kisslinux <acheam> (not to be annoying about it)
2021-04-03T16:25:55 #kisslinux <acheam> also
2021-04-03T16:26:57 #kisslinux <acheam> didn't the install page at some point mention gnugrep?
2021-04-03T16:27:09 #kisslinux <midfavila> yes
2021-04-03T16:27:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> as a potential speed boost for kiss
2021-04-03T16:27:30 #kisslinux <acheam> it doesn't say it anymore
2021-04-03T16:27:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> it might be under wiki
2021-04-03T16:27:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...which would be a better place besides, if it *is* there
2021-04-03T16:28:10 #kisslinux <acheam> yeah
2021-04-03T16:28:12 #kisslinux <acheam> was just curious
2021-04-03T16:30:39 #kisslinux <dilyn> KISS_GREP used to be a supported option because of the gnugrep speed bump
2021-04-03T16:30:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> but Dylan did a few things, and the alternatives system ultimately made KISS_GREP redundant
2021-04-03T16:31:12 #kisslinux <dilyn> as in, it was unclear why users would use gnugrep for only kiss and not for their other grep activities
2021-04-03T16:32:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> that doesn't explain why the tip isn't there any more
2021-04-03T16:32:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> it was when I installed KISS, and that was late last year
2021-04-03T16:33:04 #kisslinux <dilyn> the tip was to install gnugrep and do export KISS_GREP=gnugrep, but that tip is useless. It need not be mentioned assuming users are aware of the alternatives system
2021-04-03T16:33:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> the real question is when is that mentioned hmmm
2021-04-03T16:33:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> it was mentioned near the end
2021-04-03T16:34:40 #kisslinux <acheam> I distinctly remember it
2021-04-03T16:34:52 #kisslinux <acheam> but couldn't find it in the commit messages... I wonder why
2021-04-03T16:35:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's the berenstein effect!!!!!!!!!!
2021-04-03T16:35:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> we've split into the kisslinux and k1sslinux universes, one with the tip and one without
2021-04-03T16:35:31 #kisslinux <acheam> i think its the bad commit message effect
2021-04-03T16:35:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> nah
2021-04-03T16:35:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's definitely the conspiracy
2021-04-03T16:37:18 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol
2021-04-03T16:37:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> this is emphasized further by the fact that we're stuck with dilyn instead of dylan
2021-04-03T16:38:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> face it acheam, my theory is the best explanation
2021-04-03T16:39:11 #kisslinux <acheam> okay
2021-04-03T16:39:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> i accept this theory 100%
2021-04-03T16:39:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> the beta timeline with k1ss and dilyn and no tips
2021-04-03T16:39:48 #kisslinux <midfavila> versus the chad timeline with kiss and dylan and tips
2021-04-03T16:39:53 #kisslinux * midfavila nods
2021-04-03T16:39:56 #kisslinux <dilyn> the tips were the filesystems we corrupted along the way
2021-04-03T16:40:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> maybe the real commits were the kernels we compiled
2021-04-03T16:40:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> :thinking:
2021-04-03T16:40:26 #kisslinux <dilyn> the real messages were the doc updates we pushed
2021-04-03T16:40:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> dox
2021-04-03T16:40:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> Dudes On Xanax
2021-04-03T16:41:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> that should be a band name
2021-04-03T16:41:04 #kisslinux <dilyn> new kiss version! so now you 1337 hackers can use the chad zstd's xz instead of the beta xz i force upon you
2021-04-03T16:41:31 #kisslinux <dilyn> also, `please` can be KISS_SU too
2021-04-03T16:41:44 #kisslinux <dilyn> and acheams problem should be fixed :v but the real solution is to not use ksh as sh
2021-04-03T16:41:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> fuck you
2021-04-03T16:41:56 #kisslinux <dilyn> <3
2021-04-03T16:42:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> ksh as sh is the best compromise between functionality and speed
2021-04-03T16:43:15 #kisslinux <acheam> dilyn: whats my problem?
2021-04-03T16:43:21 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Can you notice the difference between ash and ksh in "speed" ?
2021-04-03T16:43:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> yer face
2021-04-03T16:43:36 #kisslinux <acheam> thanks mid
2021-04-03T16:43:38 #kisslinux <midfavila> and whether I notice the difference between ash and ksh is irrelevant
2021-04-03T16:43:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> because busybox is fucking dogshit
2021-04-03T16:43:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> stop using it
2021-04-03T16:43:44 #kisslinux <acheam> have you tried dash?
2021-04-03T16:43:58 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> I am using ksh only
2021-04-03T16:44:01 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Don't know why though
2021-04-03T16:44:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> yes, I've used dash. doesn't make much difference in my opinion
2021-04-03T16:44:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> i guess I could time it
2021-04-03T16:44:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> like, if I really cared
2021-04-03T16:44:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> but using dash and mksh together is 1.6mb
2021-04-03T16:44:30 #kisslinux <acheam> do y'all use the util-linux alternatives?
2021-04-03T16:44:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> and oksh on its own is about 200kb
2021-04-03T16:44:41 #kisslinux <midfavila> and no, I don't, personally
2021-04-03T16:44:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> only util linux thing I use is fdisk
2021-04-03T16:44:50 #kisslinux <acheam> because it seems almost everything in util-linux is isntalled as a "kiss alternative" thing
2021-04-03T16:45:00 #kisslinux <acheam> hmm
2021-04-03T16:45:10 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> I just need util-linux for btrfs so I disabled the programs and kept the libs
2021-04-03T16:45:14 #kisslinux <midfavila> the only reason I use fdisk from util is because GNU fdisk requires guile
2021-04-03T16:45:39 #kisslinux <aarng> when are we ditching `sed -i` btw? :)
2021-04-03T16:45:41 #kisslinux <acheam> i thought you liked guile
2021-04-03T16:45:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> i do like guile
2021-04-03T16:45:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> but guile has no place in fdisk
2021-04-03T16:45:54 #kisslinux <acheam> NOOO sed -i is bae
2021-04-03T16:46:06 #kisslinux <acheam> screw posix
2021-04-03T16:46:08 #kisslinux <dilyn> sry acheam it was testuser_'s issue
2021-04-03T16:46:11 #kisslinux <acheam> give me that sed -i
2021-04-03T16:46:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> i do think that if we could replace sed -i with a more portable option that would be better
2021-04-03T16:46:18 #kisslinux <acheam> dilyn: okay
2021-04-03T16:46:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> it'd make ports to BSD a lot easier
2021-04-03T16:46:24 #kisslinux <aarng> it's not even only about posix
2021-04-03T16:46:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> and hey
2021-04-03T16:46:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> dilyn would even be able to run kiss right on his mac
2021-04-03T16:46:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> no need to leave muh applel OS
2021-04-03T16:46:47 #kisslinux <aarng> BSD sed has a mandayory parameter for -i
2021-04-03T16:47:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> i mean it wouldn't be hard to drop sed -i except for the packages which use sed -i in the configure scripts...
2021-04-03T16:47:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> i dont' want that headache tho
2021-04-03T16:47:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> I thought BSD had to like, store it in a temp file, then manually overwrite the original using cat?
2021-04-03T16:47:14 #kisslinux <acheam> dilyn: one more instance: https://i.imgur.com/6tNliri.png
2021-04-03T16:47:24 #kisslinux <aarng> I wondered about that, dilyn
2021-04-03T16:47:27 #kisslinux <aarng> is it common?
2021-04-03T16:47:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> er
2021-04-03T16:47:33 #kisslinux <acheam> dilyn: can't you just sed all the repos?
2021-04-03T16:47:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> couldn't you just write a sed/awk script for th-
2021-04-03T16:47:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> yeah
2021-04-03T16:47:47 #kisslinux <midfavila> it wouldn't be very hard to mass-convert packages, I think
2021-04-03T16:47:50 #kisslinux <dilyn> i'm not talking about the build scripts
2021-04-03T16:47:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> i'm talking about the packages themselves
2021-04-03T16:47:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> like zfs checks for sed --in-place
2021-04-03T16:48:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> okay well zfs can go fuck itself
2021-04-03T16:48:12 #kisslinux <dilyn> toybox doesn't use long options so i have to change it to sed -i lel
2021-04-03T16:48:13 #kisslinux <aarng> lol
2021-04-03T16:48:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> zoomerFS isn't welcome
2021-04-03T16:48:22 #kisslinux <midfavila> neither is zoomersh
2021-04-03T16:48:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> if you use either, you get the bullet
2021-04-03T16:48:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> but like, i imagine that problem exists sporadically, and I don't want to do it
2021-04-03T16:48:52 #kisslinux <aarng> yeah, fair point
2021-04-03T16:48:57 #kisslinux <E5ten> well it does support some long options lol, if they're used commonly enough
2021-04-03T16:49:19 #kisslinux <E5ten> (or if the longopt doesn't have a corresponding shortopt but is a desired feature)
2021-04-03T16:49:43 #kisslinux <dilyn> right. in general they aren't available
2021-04-03T16:49:54 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah
2021-04-03T16:49:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> unless someone 'asks', and they're not documented
2021-04-03T16:50:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> "the source is the documentation"
2021-04-03T16:50:17 #kisslinux <aarng> I was working on a `sed -i` compatibility layer but it's a pita
2021-04-03T16:50:27 #kisslinux <E5ten> I think they're usually documented in the help in like parentheses next to their corresponding shortopt? (or after the help for their corresponding shortopt)
2021-04-03T16:50:28 #kisslinux <dilyn> it's all a thing. landley is a man of opinions
2021-04-03T16:50:33 #kisslinux <aarng> having to copy sed's option parsing sucks
2021-04-03T16:50:54 #kisslinux <dilyn> I was reading some PRs and Issues or w/e and maybe I'm misremembering what landley said? either way
2021-04-03T16:50:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> sometimes they exist, sometimes they don't
2021-04-03T16:51:08 #kisslinux <dilyn> you can't trust anybody to do anythign uniformally
2021-04-03T16:51:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> something something POSIX accept sed -i pl0x
2021-04-03T16:51:33 #kisslinux <E5ten> they can't cuz it has conflicting behaviour on BSD vs GNU
2021-04-03T16:51:50 #kisslinux <dilyn> bsd change
2021-04-03T16:51:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> conform to the superior OS
2021-04-03T16:52:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> systemd+BSD
2021-04-03T16:52:13 #kisslinux <dilyn> systemB
2021-04-03T16:52:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> coming to a desktop near you
2021-04-03T16:52:15 #kisslinux <E5ten> but GNU's isn't a valid flag in regards to POSIX, it has an optional argument, and iirc POSIX doesn't do those at all
2021-04-03T16:52:34 #kisslinux <acheam> systemd makes linux kernel calls, it can't be ported to bsd
2021-04-03T16:52:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> it was a joke, fivehead
2021-04-03T16:52:47 #kisslinux <dilyn> thank fuck
2021-04-03T16:52:49 #kisslinux <dilyn> time to switch
2021-04-03T16:52:57 #kisslinux <midfavila> wait for hyperbola dilyn
2021-04-03T16:52:58 #kisslinux <acheam> no risk of corruption
2021-04-03T16:52:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> finally I am safe from Poetterware
2021-04-03T16:53:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> i know you love your GPL
2021-04-03T16:53:05 #kisslinux <acheam> dilyn: did you see the screenshot I sent you?
2021-04-03T16:53:12 #kisslinux <E5ten> I think the only real solution in terms of getting sed -i or something like it in POSIX would be for impls to add something like -I that behaves like BSD sed -i, and then that can be added to POSIX
2021-04-03T16:53:15 #kisslinux <dilyn> the only reason I don't want Parabola is muh gpl :'(
2021-04-03T16:53:22 #kisslinux <dilyn> acheam: yes and I changed it :v tyty
2021-04-03T16:53:27 #kisslinux <acheam> great, thanks!
2021-04-03T16:53:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> did I SAY parabola?
2021-04-03T16:53:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> >:c
2021-04-03T16:53:42 #kisslinux <dilyn> they're all the same
2021-04-03T16:53:49 #kisslinux <dilyn> hyperbola, parabola, webola
2021-04-03T16:53:56 #kisslinux <dilyn> parabopolis
2021-04-03T16:54:00 #kisslinux <midfavila> something something parabolas and hyperbolas are different elements of a shape
2021-04-03T16:54:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> the art of abola
2021-04-03T16:54:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> or something
2021-04-03T16:54:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> you're forgetting ebola
2021-04-03T16:54:20 #kisslinux <acheam> thats the one with systemd, right?
2021-04-03T16:54:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> yes
2021-04-03T16:54:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> systemd+ebola gnu/linux
2021-04-03T16:55:18 #kisslinux <aarng> > iirc POSIX doesn't do those at all
2021-04-03T16:55:20 #kisslinux <aarng> that's correct
2021-04-03T16:55:31 #kisslinux <midfavila> i need to actually *read* posix
2021-04-03T16:55:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> but it's so. fucking. dry.
2021-04-03T16:56:47 #kisslinux <E5ten> I mean I just read the parts that are actually relevant to whatever I'm trying to figure out
2021-04-03T16:56:55 #kisslinux <E5ten> idk why you'd just like read the whole thing through lol
2021-04-03T16:57:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> because I'm autistic and prefer to have a full understanding of what I'm doing at a given moment
2021-04-03T16:57:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> and feel awful when I have to consult references
2021-04-03T16:57:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> i'd make a horrible academic
2021-04-03T16:57:44 #kisslinux <acheam> argh this isn't booting even on bare metal, its just bootlooping
2021-04-03T16:57:50 #kisslinux <midfavila> are you using grub
2021-04-03T16:58:00 #kisslinux <acheam> *shyly* yes
2021-04-03T16:58:09 #kisslinux <aarng> midfavila, do you have the posix manpages?
2021-04-03T16:58:16 #kisslinux <aarng> those are pretty nice to have installed
2021-04-03T16:58:18 #kisslinux <midfavila> senpai will never notice you, so long as you use grub
2021-04-03T16:58:18 #kisslinux <dilyn> efistub or bust
2021-04-03T16:58:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> fuck off UEFI shill
2021-04-03T16:58:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> and yes I have the posix manpages
2021-04-03T16:58:31 #kisslinux <acheam> my server doesn't have uefi lol
2021-04-03T16:58:35 #kisslinux <midfavila> i also have the kernel manpages
2021-04-03T16:58:53 #kisslinux <acheam> i'm not rich enough for uefi
2021-04-03T16:58:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> ngl I feel like transcribing books into mandoc would make them much comfier to read
2021-04-03T16:59:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> like imagine being able to just man thecprogramminglanguage
2021-04-03T16:59:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> and it's the whole book
2021-04-03T17:00:31 #kisslinux <acheam>  man c
2021-04-03T17:00:46 #kisslinux <midfavila> man c should be a pocket reference for the langauge
2021-04-03T17:00:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> s/langauge/language/
2021-04-03T17:00:53 #kisslinux <kissbot> <midfavila> man c should be a pocket reference for the language
2021-04-03T17:01:20 #kisslinux <acheam> i'm seriously starting to consider just installing mint on this thing
2021-04-03T17:01:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> absolutely cringe and proprietary-pilled
2021-04-03T17:01:47 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> What proprietary
2021-04-03T17:01:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> firmware blobs
2021-04-03T17:02:06 #kisslinux <midfavila> do you not even KNOW about muh firmware?
2021-04-03T17:02:42 #kisslinux <acheam> he *only* uses linux-libre
2021-04-03T17:02:45 #kisslinux <dilyn> isn't /usr/include your pocket reference for C
2021-04-03T17:03:02 #kisslinux <dilyn> *only* as of two days ago kappa
2021-04-03T17:03:13 #kisslinux <midfavila> i never said I *only* use libre smh
2021-04-03T17:03:24 #kisslinux <midfavila> i have exactly one device that requires I use proprietary firmware
2021-04-03T17:03:28 #kisslinux <midfavila> and that is my WX5100
2021-04-03T17:03:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> but if I really wanted to I could use my matrox g200
2021-04-03T17:03:54 #kisslinux <aarng> I mean, uefi probably sucks
2021-04-03T17:04:02 #kisslinux <aarng> but if your board has it anyway, might as well use it
2021-04-03T17:04:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's not even that it sucks
2021-04-03T17:04:08 #kisslinux <midfavila> it's that it doesn't really offer much
2021-04-03T17:04:09 #kisslinux <aarng> instead of a bootloader
2021-04-03T17:06:16 #kisslinux <aarng> isn't there criticism about it being too complex or whatever?
2021-04-03T17:06:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> well, yes, it's wildly overengineered
2021-04-03T17:06:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> there are some theoretical benefits
2021-04-03T17:06:44 #kisslinux <dilyn> it offers a whole lot
2021-04-03T17:06:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> i've heard that you can write OS-independent drivers using uefi for example
2021-04-03T17:06:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> i can use my mouse in bios now woohoo
2021-04-03T17:07:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> OH WOW I CAN POINT AND GRUNT HURR
2021-04-03T17:07:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> uefi is like a mini OS. you can just launch anything you want directly from your firmware
2021-04-03T17:07:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> sure but why would you want an OS whose only purpose is to boot into another OS
2021-04-03T17:07:34 #kisslinux <midfavila> that's stupid
2021-04-03T17:07:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> is it amusing that I can run doom without an OS? sure
2021-04-03T17:08:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> is that capability at all relevent to anything in the real world ever?
2021-04-03T17:08:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> no
2021-04-03T17:08:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...except for maybe benchmarking programs, but even then
2021-04-03T17:09:10 #kisslinux <acheam> does anybody have reccomendations on how I can troubleshoot this?
2021-04-03T17:09:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> install extlinux
2021-04-03T17:09:27 #kisslinux <dilyn> proot is pretty fucking tight
2021-04-03T17:09:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> in other news
2021-04-03T17:09:31 #kisslinux <acheam> I've followed all the steps in the install guide, am using a single / ex4 partiton, grub
2021-04-03T17:09:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> but if i'm actually going to be helpful
2021-04-03T17:09:51 #kisslinux <midfavila> sometimes bootloaders won't properly clean up after themselves when you install new ones
2021-04-03T17:10:02 #kisslinux <midfavila> check... I think it's the first 412 bytes of your disk?
2021-04-03T17:10:25 #kisslinux <acheam> I wiped the MBR and stuff before starting
2021-04-03T17:10:25 #kisslinux <dilyn> arguably anything UEFI does is relevant to the real world, because UEFI exists in the real world. The things it does are necessarily relevant, in virtue of it existing
2021-04-03T17:10:33 #kisslinux <acheam> so the only thing its ever seen is this grub install
2021-04-03T17:10:37 #kisslinux <dilyn> but sure, use a teleological argument without defining what the 'goal' is lol
2021-04-03T17:10:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> you manually wiped the mbr acheam?
2021-04-03T17:10:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> stfu barista
2021-04-03T17:10:56 #kisslinux <dilyn> u got m3
2021-04-03T17:11:11 #kisslinux <midfavila> the bootloader's job is to load the OS in as few steps as possible and in a reliable fashion
2021-04-03T17:11:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> at least as far as I care
2021-04-03T17:11:23 #kisslinux <midfavila> UEFI dramatically overshoots that
2021-04-03T17:11:26 #kisslinux <dilyn> acheam with bios your disk should have a 1-2MB empty space at the head of the drive, and then you can just do the rest as a single filesystem
2021-04-03T17:11:42 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...er, why do you say that?
2021-04-03T17:11:44 #kisslinux <dilyn> but your disk needs to have an MBR partition table
2021-04-03T17:11:49 #kisslinux <midfavila> you don't need an empty space
2021-04-03T17:11:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> ?? yes you do
2021-04-03T17:11:58 #kisslinux <midfavila> i regularly allocate the entirety of my disk
2021-04-03T17:12:00 #kisslinux <acheam> I thought you only needed the empty space with gpt
2021-04-03T17:12:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> you need the bootloader code in the first 512 bytes of your boot sector
2021-04-03T17:12:24 #kisslinux <acheam> I did an "fdisk o" to clear and stuff
2021-04-03T17:12:25 #kisslinux <midfavila> or some bit of code that loads the rest of the bootloader
2021-04-03T17:12:28 #kisslinux <acheam> i marked the partition bootable
2021-04-03T17:12:30 #kisslinux <dilyn> The problem with MBR is that its first allocation is too small for grub to write to, GPT escapes that problem
2021-04-03T17:12:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> the solution is to not use grub
2021-04-03T17:12:44 #kisslinux <midfavila> because grub is fucking awful
2021-04-03T17:12:44 #kisslinux <dilyn> smh
2021-04-03T17:12:49 #kisslinux <acheam> dilyn: so are you reccomending to reinstall using a gpt hybrid thing
2021-04-03T17:12:56 #kisslinux <dilyn> never
2021-04-03T17:13:16 #kisslinux <dilyn> the only reason to use hybrid is because you want more than four physical partitions, and a couple other reasons that probably don't apply to your use case
2021-04-03T17:13:21 #kisslinux <midfavila> gpt is great if you have massive disks and/or use a metric ton of partitions
2021-04-03T17:13:33 #kisslinux <midfavila> otherwise just use mbr
2021-04-03T17:13:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> ...and even then if you wanted tons of partitions just use a logical partition
2021-04-03T17:14:17 #kisslinux <midfavila> although those are admittedly a PITA
2021-04-03T17:14:37 #kisslinux <acheam> so... what do you think I should do? This boot stuff is a bit out of my realm
2021-04-03T17:14:42 #kisslinux <dilyn> https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GRUB#Master_Boot_Record_(MBR)_specific_instructions
2021-04-03T17:14:54 #kisslinux <midfavila> i think you should zero the first sector of your hard drive and install extlinux
2021-04-03T17:15:12 #kisslinux <midfavila> because it will be infinitely easier
2021-04-03T17:15:21 #kisslinux <dilyn> it should literally be as easy as grub-install w/e w/e
2021-04-03T17:15:32 #kisslinux <dilyn> grub should *just work* if your partition layout is setup correctly.
2021-04-03T17:15:37 #kisslinux <midfavila> i've never ONCE had GRUB just work
2021-04-03T17:15:43 #kisslinux <dilyn> sucks for you i guess
2021-04-03T17:15:56 #kisslinux <dilyn> acheam, would you like to use an alternative to grub that works with MBR?
2021-04-03T17:16:25 #kisslinux <acheam> sure? this is a server, not my personal box so I don't really care what it uses
2021-04-03T17:16:30 #kisslinux <dilyn> the setup is slightly more manual with the other options, but it is much harder to screw anything up
2021-04-03T17:16:52 #kisslinux <dilyn> then I'd suggest LILO or extlinux, mid has used both probably so he would know more
2021-04-03T17:16:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> grub is just headaches too often
2021-04-03T17:17:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> LILO breaks on KISS and is generally a pain to compile from source now so either steal a binary from slackware or use extlinux
2021-04-03T17:17:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> if you want to use extlinux it's packaged in my repo
2021-04-03T17:17:40 #kisslinux <acheam> what's the url?
2021-04-03T17:18:04 #kisslinux <midfavila> https://git.sdf.org/midfavila/kiss-mfavila/
2021-04-03T17:18:11 #kisslinux <acheam> thank
2021-04-03T17:18:15 #kisslinux <midfavila> extlinux should be under ports
2021-04-03T17:19:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> tl;dr make a partition large enough for your kernel plus some other stuff (20mb should be more than enough assuming you use huge kernels), mark it as bootable, format it ext3
2021-04-03T17:19:16 #kisslinux <midfavila> dd if=/usr/lib/extlinux/mbr.bin of=/dev/sda bs=440 count=1
2021-04-03T17:19:29 #kisslinux <midfavila> run this command with /dev/sda as your main disk
2021-04-03T17:19:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> it will load the bootstrap code for extlinux onto your boot sector without risk of destroying the MBR
2021-04-03T17:20:05 #kisslinux <acheam> midfavila: can I not use a single / partition?
2021-04-03T17:20:27 #kisslinux <midfavila> I don't think so. But I also haven't much looked into it
2021-04-03T17:20:31 #kisslinux <acheam> hmm
2021-04-03T17:20:36 #kisslinux <midfavila> the advantage of a seperate boot partition is that you can mount it read-only
2021-04-03T17:20:45 #kisslinux <midfavila> which prevents you from accidentally wiping it out
2021-04-03T17:20:56 #kisslinux <midfavila> or anything else wiping it out for that matter
2021-04-03T17:21:08 #kisslinux <acheam> okay how often do you wipe things out
2021-04-03T17:21:17 #kisslinux <acheam> you always say that
2021-04-03T17:21:19 #kisslinux <midfavila> not very, but countermeasures are still good to take
2021-04-03T17:21:31 #kisslinux <dilyn> with BIOS boot you could have it all as a single partition but I don't know if ext itself supports that
2021-04-03T17:21:58 #kisslinux <dilyn> the biggest downside i've found with UEFI is I need my /boot partition to be at LEAST 480MB otherwise I can never boot, even though my kernel is five freakin megs
2021-04-03T17:22:07 #kisslinux <midfavila> what the fuck
2021-04-03T17:22:20 #kisslinux <midfavila> and here I thought a boot partition of 50mb was too much
2021-04-03T17:22:27 #kisslinux <dilyn> i mean, it is
2021-04-03T17:22:37 #kisslinux <acheam> i'm going with 256mb
2021-04-03T17:22:38 #kisslinux <dilyn> but for some reason all the UEFI implementations I've tried since 2013 have been hella picky
2021-04-03T17:22:39 #kisslinux <acheam> to be safea
2021-04-03T17:22:43 #kisslinux <midfavila> you don't need that much
2021-04-03T17:22:47 #kisslinux <dilyn> I used to be able to get away with 120 but here i am in the future :'(
2021-04-03T17:23:01 #kisslinux <midfavila> 50mb is enough for me to load multiple huge kernels and a couple niceties for extlinux onto /boot
2021-04-03T17:23:02 #kisslinux <acheam> its not like i'm desperate for 128 more megs
2021-04-03T17:23:12 #kisslinux <acheam> i can spare the space
2021-04-03T17:23:14 #kisslinux * midfavila shrugs
2021-04-03T17:23:40 #kisslinux <midfavila> anyway follow the instructions above
2021-04-03T17:23:52 #kisslinux <midfavila> then run extlinux --install /boot/extlinux
2021-04-03T17:24:10 #kisslinux <midfavila> after that it's just a matter of writing a config file
2021-04-03T17:24:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> http://0x0.st/-ci6.cfg
2021-04-03T17:24:32 #kisslinux <midfavila> here's mine as an example
2021-04-03T17:25:03 #kisslinux <midfavila> provides a nice little menu and a five-second prompt to let me choose which kernel i'd like to boot with
2021-04-03T17:25:27 #kisslinux <noocsharp> dilyn: https://nihaljere.xyz/0001-go-bump-to-1.16.3.patch
2021-04-03T17:25:37 #kisslinux <noocsharp> this is how i submit patches now
2021-04-03T17:26:12 #kisslinux <acheam> thanks mid
2021-04-03T17:26:30 #kisslinux <midfavila> Mmh.
2021-04-03T17:26:31 #kisslinux <dilyn> wonderful noocsharp :)
2021-04-03T17:26:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> my patch to fix those musl ld.so issues was upstreamed, did you notice a change in this release?
2021-04-03T17:27:43 #kisslinux <noocsharp> i didn't check, maybe wait on applying it then
2021-04-03T17:28:38 #kisslinux <dilyn> for sure. I'll take a peak
2021-04-03T17:31:24 #kisslinux <noocsharp> hmm, age-keygen still links to ld-linux*
2021-04-03T17:31:50 #kisslinux <noocsharp> maybe it didn't make it into this release?
2021-04-03T17:32:58 #kisslinux <acheam> damn it I rushed in fdisk and wiped my good partition
2021-04-03T17:34:09 #kisslinux <acheam> sorry for the onslaught of questions today, but has anyone had any issues with -O3?
2021-04-03T17:34:27 #kisslinux <acheam> i know people make a fuss about it in gentoo, but haven't heard much talk about it here
2021-04-03T17:34:33 #kisslinux <noocsharp> i know -O3 is known to cause issues, but thats about it
2021-04-03T17:34:40 #kisslinux <noocsharp> i never use it
2021-04-03T17:35:08 #kisslinux <noocsharp> i don't even use -O1, but i probably should...
2021-04-03T17:35:17 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> I rarely had issues with O3 and even flto
2021-04-03T17:35:43 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Its not like your system Is gonna explode, just fix the broken packages
2021-04-03T17:37:21 #kisslinux <acheam> what does "broken" or "cause issues" even mean? ~segfaults?
2021-04-03T17:39:02 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Its  mostly build failures, and sometimes you'll need to add `ffat-lto-objects` on libraries like zlib
2021-04-03T17:39:22 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> I don't think I got any segfaults cuz of those flag
2021-04-03T17:39:48 #kisslinux <acheam> hm
2021-04-03T17:59:29 #kisslinux <acheam> midfavila: is extlinux syslinux?
2021-04-03T17:59:39 #kisslinux <acheam> in your repos, that is
2021-04-03T18:06:39 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yes
2021-04-03T18:06:46 #kisslinux <acheam> cool thanks
2021-04-03T18:06:51 #kisslinux <midfavila1> np
2021-04-03T18:07:03 #kisslinux <acheam> ew why does it depend on all this crap
2021-04-03T18:07:19 #kisslinux <E5ten> I haven't had any issues with -O3, but I use clang and idk if the same is the case with gcc, although iirc from what I've heard gcc -O3 should be fine now?
2021-04-03T18:07:24 #kisslinux <midfavila1> build-time stuff
2021-04-03T18:07:34 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i know, using perl *and* python to build is disgusting
2021-04-03T18:07:45 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but I'm not the syslinux developer
2021-04-03T18:10:42 #kisslinux <acheam> even stuff like libffi and sqlite too though
2021-04-03T18:11:00 #kisslinux <acheam> *bloat*
2021-04-03T18:12:16 #kisslinux <testuser_[m]> Those are Python deps
2021-04-03T18:12:52 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yeah uh syslinux itself only has one dep
2021-04-03T18:13:11 #kisslinux <midfavila1> that being util-linux
2021-04-03T18:13:26 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and it's not as if you need to keep syslinux and util-linux installed after you set stuff up
2021-04-03T18:14:43 #kisslinux <acheam> testuser_[m]: oh i'm an idiot
2021-04-03T18:19:11 #kisslinux <acheam> okay leap of faith, rebooting now
2021-04-03T18:22:45 #kisslinux <acheam> yay it worked, kind of!
2021-04-03T18:22:56 #kisslinux <acheam> it got to extlinux, but failed to load menu.c3
2021-04-03T18:22:57 #kisslinux <acheam> 2
2021-04-03T18:23:03 #kisslinux <midfavila1> did you just copy my config
2021-04-03T18:23:16 #kisslinux <midfavila1> because if so you have to also copy /usr/lib/syslinux/menu.c32 into /boot
2021-04-03T18:23:21 #kisslinux <midfavila1> (at least I think that's the right path)
2021-04-03T18:23:26 #kisslinux <acheam> yeah that makes sense
2021-04-03T18:23:32 #kisslinux <acheam> and..... kernel panic
2021-04-03T18:23:34 #kisslinux <midfavila1> yes that's the right path
2021-04-03T18:23:46 #kisslinux <midfavila1> did you tell the kernel where your root is?
2021-04-03T18:23:54 #kisslinux <acheam> maybe not... how do I do that?
2021-04-03T18:24:08 #kisslinux <acheam> That would make sense because its "unable to mount root fs on unkown block(0,0)"
2021-04-03T18:24:13 #kisslinux <midfavila1> you just set the append variable in your syslinux.cfg
2021-04-03T18:24:18 #kisslinux <midfavila1> so if you look at mine
2021-04-03T18:24:32 #kisslinux <midfavila1> under the label default, i tell it that the linux kernel is in the above directory
2021-04-03T18:24:32 #kisslinux <acheam> I did do that
2021-04-03T18:24:47 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and then append read-only, root=/dev/sda2, quiet, and my resume partition to the kernel
2021-04-03T18:24:57 #kisslinux <acheam> yeah "root=" is set correctly
2021-04-03T18:25:12 #kisslinux <midfavila1> do you use modules for your filesystem/initramfs?
2021-04-03T18:25:44 #kisslinux <acheam> I just use defconfig
2021-04-03T18:25:56 #kisslinux <acheam> so... maybe
2021-04-03T18:26:02 #kisslinux <midfavila1> okay well you should probably check if ext3/4 is built in or not
2021-04-03T18:26:03 #kisslinux <acheam> apologies for my noobiness about this
2021-04-03T18:26:06 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it's fine
2021-04-03T18:26:12 #kisslinux <acheam> i would be very surprised it if isn't
2021-04-03T18:26:21 #kisslinux <midfavila1> retarded obscure stuff is like the only thing I know about
2021-04-03T18:26:25 #kisslinux <acheam> i mean, its ext3, and the deafult config...
2021-04-03T18:26:40 #kisslinux <midfavila1> ext4 is usually the only fs baked into kernels afaik
2021-04-03T18:26:46 #kisslinux <acheam> oh really?
2021-04-03T18:26:47 #kisslinux <midfavila1> unless you explicitly bake others in
2021-04-03T18:26:53 #kisslinux <acheam> thanks for letting me know
2021-04-03T18:26:54 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i don't do defconfigs, mind
2021-04-03T18:27:01 #kisslinux <midfavila1> my configs are hardware-specific
2021-04-03T18:27:15 #kisslinux <dilyn> noocsharp: yeah my change didn't make it into go-current it looks like. no idea when it will magically appear...
2021-04-03T18:27:16 #kisslinux <acheam> yeah, again, this is just a server machine
2021-04-03T18:27:18 #kisslinux <acheam> I don't really care
2021-04-03T18:27:32 #kisslinux <acheam> on my personal, i'd do a custom
2021-04-03T18:27:48 #kisslinux <midfavila1> anyway yeah you should *probably* bake ext3/4 into your kernel and go from there
2021-04-03T18:27:54 #kisslinux <acheam> thanks!
2021-04-03T18:27:58 #kisslinux <midfavila1> are you specifying using uuid or devfile?
2021-04-03T18:28:05 #kisslinux <acheam> devfile
2021-04-03T18:28:09 #kisslinux <acheam> per your suggestion
2021-04-03T18:28:10 #kisslinux <midfavila1> okay, good
2021-04-03T18:28:18 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i've never had luck with anything regarding uuid
2021-04-03T18:28:29 #kisslinux <midfavila1> ...or the new interface naming scheme for that matter
2021-04-03T18:28:31 #kisslinux <dilyn> UUIDs were always rough
2021-04-03T18:28:49 #kisslinux <dilyn> you'll want to make sure you've built filesystem + whatever type of drive rootfs lives on into the kernel
2021-04-03T18:28:50 #kisslinux <acheam> i'm just glad its at least recognizing syslinux
2021-04-03T18:28:53 #kisslinux <midfavila1> UUID, the whole "en0p???" naming scheme, etc, are all bullshit
2021-04-03T18:29:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> so ext2/3/4 should be *, along with nvme support or sata support w/e
2021-04-03T18:29:07 #kisslinux <dilyn> pata if u gotit
2021-04-03T18:29:11 #kisslinux <acheam> thanks dilyn
2021-04-03T18:29:12 #kisslinux <midfavila1> >PATA
2021-04-03T18:29:13 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it's
2021-04-03T18:29:14 #kisslinux <midfavila1> I
2021-04-03T18:29:15 #kisslinux <midfavila1> D
2021-04-03T18:29:15 #kisslinux <midfavila1> E
2021-04-03T18:29:21 #kisslinux <dilyn>  /shrug
2021-04-03T18:29:23 #kisslinux <midfavila1> reeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE*EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE*
2021-04-03T18:29:25 #kisslinux <acheam> yes, my server has an array of 15 NVME m.2 drives
2021-04-03T18:29:32 #kisslinux <acheam> need to make sure to bake that into the kernel
2021-04-03T18:29:35 #kisslinux <midfavila1> wait what
2021-04-03T18:29:37 #kisslinux <dilyn> yeah so under device drivers there's a section for nvme devices
2021-04-03T18:29:46 #kisslinux <dilyn> you just need the... first option iirc to make it bootable
2021-04-03T18:29:48 #kisslinux <dilyn> the rest is gravy
2021-04-03T18:29:49 #kisslinux <aarng> uhm, isn't ext4 backwards compatible, so it can always read ext2/3?
2021-04-03T18:29:50 #kisslinux <midfavila1> what the hell are you doing with fifteen nvmes
2021-04-03T18:29:58 #kisslinux <acheam> midfavila1: its. a. joke.
2021-04-03T18:29:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> it should be
2021-04-03T18:30:03 #kisslinux <midfavila1> just making sure
2021-04-03T18:30:08 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i know people who actually have systems like that
2021-04-03T18:30:09 #kisslinux <acheam> fivehead
2021-04-03T18:30:17 #kisslinux <midfavila1> speaking of overkill
2021-04-03T18:30:27 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i'm considering buying SAS drives and making a caching RAID setup
2021-04-03T18:30:46 #kisslinux <midfavila1> so I can *flex* on mac users more
2021-04-03T18:31:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> kernel's help for ext4 fs makes it seem like it can mount ext3 but not ext2?
2021-04-03T18:31:16 #kisslinux <dilyn> no good reason not to just build in ext2/3/4 if you know you're using ext tho
2021-04-03T18:31:28 #kisslinux <midfavila1> at least 3
2021-04-03T18:31:32 #kisslinux <midfavila1> only 4 if you use ext4
2021-04-03T18:31:50 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i normally build reiser/f2fs and jfs in
2021-04-03T18:32:12 #kisslinux <midfavila1> my destiny is to become the most hipster of KISS users
2021-04-03T18:32:38 #kisslinux <noocsharp> dilyn: if you didn't see it, age-keygen still links against ld-linux, so i don't think its fixed in this the release, meaning the patch i sent is good to go
2021-04-03T18:32:54 #kisslinux <dilyn> aha i c ic
2021-04-03T18:33:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> lmao why can't I build go...
2021-04-03T18:33:10 #kisslinux <midfavila1> because go is shit
2021-04-03T18:33:15 #kisslinux <midfavila1> the same reason I couldn't build perl
2021-04-03T18:33:27 #kisslinux <dilyn> no i have this go tool dist: mkdtemp(/var/tmp/go-cbuild-XXXXXX): Permission denied
2021-04-03T18:33:35 #kisslinux <midfavila1> have you considered
2021-04-03T18:33:36 #kisslinux <midfavila1> that
2021-04-03T18:33:37 #kisslinux <midfavila1> perhaps
2021-04-03T18:33:38 #kisslinux <dilyn> i did something somewhere
2021-04-03T18:33:41 #kisslinux <midfavila1> you should run that command as root
2021-04-03T18:33:46 #kisslinux <midfavila1> :thinking:
2021-04-03T18:34:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> i should run... kiss b as root...
2021-04-03T18:34:01 #kisslinux <dilyn> mhm
2021-04-03T18:34:04 #kisslinux <E5ten> shouldn't non-root be able to make files in /var/tmp?
2021-04-03T18:34:09 #kisslinux <dilyn> you'd think
2021-04-03T18:34:10 #kisslinux <midfavila1> you would *think* so
2021-04-03T18:34:12 #kisslinux <dilyn> something happened to it
2021-04-03T18:34:22 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but i've run into issues where running kiss b as root actually did fix shit.
2021-04-03T18:34:22 #kisslinux <midfavila1> so
2021-04-03T18:34:23 #kisslinux <midfavila1> you know
2021-04-03T18:34:26 #kisslinux <midfavila1> consider the following
2021-04-03T18:34:27 #kisslinux <dilyn> drwxr-xr-x lel
2021-04-03T18:34:29 #kisslinux <noocsharp> wait, /var/tmp? why not just /tmp?
2021-04-03T18:34:32 #kisslinux <dilyn> should be match /tmp?
2021-04-03T18:34:37 #kisslinux <midfavila1> pretty sure /var/tmp is a symlink
2021-04-03T18:34:38 #kisslinux <dilyn> no idea why it's trying to use /var/tmp
2021-04-03T18:34:43 #kisslinux <dilyn> it is not
2021-04-03T18:34:48 #kisslinux <midfavila1> rip
2021-04-03T18:34:52 #kisslinux <dilyn> should it be... :o
2021-04-03T18:34:57 #kisslinux <dilyn> did I really bork something hmmm
2021-04-03T18:34:58 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i mean
2021-04-03T18:34:58 #kisslinux <E5ten> if /var/tmp is a symlink, it definitely shouldn't be one to /tmp
2021-04-03T18:35:04 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i don't think it would much matter
2021-04-03T18:35:10 #kisslinux <E5ten> cuz /tmp stuff should not be relied on between boots, but /var/tmp stuff can be
2021-04-03T18:35:26 #kisslinux <E5ten> so they have to be different
2021-04-03T18:35:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol
2021-04-03T18:35:37 #kisslinux <midfavila1> if I was putting a file in any directory labelled /tmp then I wouldn't expect them to be persistent
2021-04-03T18:35:39 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but that's just me
2021-04-03T18:35:43 #kisslinux <dilyn> so the question is should /var/tmp be.... 1777? lol
2021-04-03T18:35:54 #kisslinux <dilyn> it's variably temporary obviously
2021-04-03T18:36:03 #kisslinux <midfavila1> stupid
2021-04-03T18:36:12 #kisslinux <E5ten> I think it should be 1777 yeah
2021-04-03T18:36:21 #kisslinux <noocsharp> for me its drwxrwxrwt
2021-04-03T18:36:32 #kisslinux <dilyn> that would indeed be 17777
2021-04-03T18:36:34 #kisslinux <dilyn> 1777*
2021-04-03T18:36:35 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i need to start using octal notation instead of symbolic
2021-04-03T18:36:45 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but octal is a pain to transition to, mentally
2021-04-03T18:36:46 #kisslinux <dilyn> wonder why it changed. nothing should be mounted there...
2021-04-03T18:37:00 #kisslinux <midfavila1> maybe just remount it to be sure
2021-04-03T18:37:02 #kisslinux <midfavila1> idk
2021-04-03T18:37:04 #kisslinux <E5ten> symbolic is such a pain to read lol
2021-04-03T18:37:15 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol
2021-04-03T18:37:17 #kisslinux <midfavila1> symbolid is a pain to read, octal is a pain to parse
2021-04-03T18:37:23 #kisslinux <midfavila1> s/symbolid/symbolic/
2021-04-03T18:37:24 #kisslinux <kissbot> <midfavila1> symbolic is a pain to read, octal is a pain to parse
2021-04-03T18:37:28 #kisslinux <dilyn> rwx+t or w/e
2021-04-03T18:37:42 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i should have paid more attention to my high school class on file permissions
2021-04-03T18:37:43 #kisslinux <midfavila1> smh
2021-04-03T18:37:48 #kisslinux <E5ten> parse like in a program or mentally?
2021-04-03T18:37:51 #kisslinux <midfavila1> mentally
2021-04-03T18:37:55 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i'm not used to octal in general
2021-04-03T18:37:58 #kisslinux <midfavila1> only hex
2021-04-03T18:38:07 #kisslinux <dilyn> 777 was how i learned perms
2021-04-03T18:38:08 #kisslinux <midfavila1> ...and binary, but file perms in binary sounds like masochism
2021-04-03T18:38:09 #kisslinux <E5ten> fair enough, I don't really think about it in terms of it being octal or not, it's just 3 7s
2021-04-03T18:38:17 #kisslinux <midfavila1> well everyone knows about 777
2021-04-03T18:38:20 #kisslinux <dilyn> well i mean
2021-04-03T18:38:24 #kisslinux <dilyn> 455 w/e u want lad
2021-04-03T18:38:40 #kisslinux <dilyn> bitches don't know bout my 7...7...7
2021-04-03T18:38:42 #kisslinux <E5ten> yeah but I mean like if you remember that 4 is read 2 is write and 1 is execute, octal perms should be pretty easy to parse
2021-04-03T18:38:54 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i don't often use chmod so
2021-04-03T18:38:58 #kisslinux * midfavila1 shrugs
2021-04-03T18:39:00 #kisslinux <dilyn> just a bunch of additions
2021-04-03T18:39:00 #kisslinux <E5ten> fair enough
2021-04-03T18:39:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> look at this guy
2021-04-03T18:39:07 #kisslinux <E5ten> dilyn: yeah exactly
2021-04-03T18:39:08 #kisslinux <dilyn> his perms are always perfect
2021-04-03T18:39:11 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i know I suck
2021-04-03T18:39:14 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i can't even do addition
2021-04-03T18:39:23 #kisslinux <dilyn> addition is just reverse subtraction
2021-04-03T18:39:24 #kisslinux <midfavila1> don't bully me I only have a ninth grade maths education
2021-04-03T18:39:25 #kisslinux <dilyn> does that help?
2021-04-03T18:39:27 #kisslinux <midfavila1> no
2021-04-03T18:39:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> :(
2021-04-03T18:39:34 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i need you to explain it in terms of summation
2021-04-03T18:39:54 #kisslinux <dilyn> summation == addition
2021-04-03T18:39:58 #kisslinux <dilyn> that better?
2021-04-03T18:39:59 #kisslinux <midfavila1> :thinking:
2021-04-03T18:40:02 #kisslinux <midfavila1> r u sure
2021-04-03T18:40:11 #kisslinux <dilyn> lemme check my degree hold on
2021-04-03T18:40:16 #kisslinux <midfavila1> k
2021-04-03T18:40:19 #kisslinux <dilyn> yeah my maths degree confirms. summation is addition
2021-04-03T18:40:35 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but why are there greek letters in my numbers professor
2021-04-03T18:40:42 #kisslinux <E5ten> lol imagine someone who doesn't learn about set[ug]id/sticky bit and thinks that the leftmost number in 4-number octal perms are just for an even more important category of user than the owner of a file
2021-04-03T18:40:47 #kisslinux <acheam> okay recompiling kernel now, EXT3 support looks to have not been enabled in .config
2021-04-03T18:40:53 #kisslinux <midfavila1> aha
2021-04-03T18:40:58 #kisslinux <dilyn> because if we used another number to symbolize a placeholder for a number we don't know you would be even more confused
2021-04-03T18:40:59 #kisslinux <midfavila1> my autism finally helps someone
2021-04-03T18:40:59 #kisslinux <midfavila1> maybe
2021-04-03T18:41:06 #kisslinux <midfavila1> dilyn that's not true
2021-04-03T18:41:10 #kisslinux <midfavila1> my favorite number is the number F
2021-04-03T18:41:16 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and it's *normal* and *sane*
2021-04-03T18:41:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> e5ten: lmfao wouldn't that be something
2021-04-03T18:41:22 #kisslinux <dilyn> 'the 0 means the file is off'
2021-04-03T18:41:36 #kisslinux <E5ten> lmao
2021-04-03T18:42:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> hey looky there my first successful git am $patch
2021-04-03T18:42:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> thx noocsharp :)
2021-04-03T18:42:15 #kisslinux <E5ten> the 4th number is the permissions for root, if you have perms 0777 and the file isn't owned by root than root can't do anything with it
2021-04-03T18:42:30 #kisslinux <E5ten> then*
2021-04-03T18:42:56 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I always assumed 0 was just the octal literal prefix for C
2021-04-03T18:43:03 #kisslinux <dilyn> whenever I login to a new system my first order of business is to chown root:root ~
2021-04-03T18:43:09 #kisslinux <dilyn> just to show the sysadmin I have nothing to hide
2021-04-03T18:43:14 #kisslinux <E5ten> smart
2021-04-03T18:43:19 #kisslinux <E5ten> kiedtl: it is
2021-04-03T18:43:37 #kisslinux <E5ten> but here I'm using it as a 0 for the "special" perm bits
2021-04-03T18:43:49 #kisslinux <kiedtl> dilyn: and then `chown -R dilyn ~/*`?
2021-04-03T18:43:54 #kisslinux <kiedtl> E5ten: ah
2021-04-03T18:43:58 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i like my files sticky
2021-04-03T18:43:59 #kisslinux <midfavila1> :^)
2021-04-03T18:44:24 #kisslinux <dilyn> no then I just email my scripts to the sysadmin and ask them to run them for me
2021-04-03T18:45:02 #kisslinux <midfavila1> okay back to the math thing though
2021-04-03T18:45:10 #kisslinux <midfavila1> how the fuck are you supposed to learn how to parse equations
2021-04-03T18:45:13 #kisslinux <midfavila1> like on wikipedia and shit
2021-04-03T18:45:19 #kisslinux <midfavila1> *they didn't teach me this in school*
2021-04-03T18:45:32 #kisslinux <noocsharp> they didn't teach you how to read?
2021-04-03T18:45:40 #kisslinux <midfavila1> stfu you know that's not what I meant
2021-04-03T18:45:46 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but to answer your question no, they didn't
2021-04-03T18:46:06 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i learned reading and writing mostly from my parents and computers
2021-04-03T18:47:14 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but yeah obviously there's order of operations when using infix notation and all that good stuff
2021-04-03T18:47:28 #kisslinux <midfavila1> but I mean when you start breaking out higher-order operations
2021-04-03T18:47:34 #kisslinux <dilyn> lmfao
2021-04-03T18:47:42 #kisslinux <midfavila1> rude.
2021-04-03T18:47:42 #kisslinux <noocsharp> have you ever seen an equation that doesn't use infix notation?
2021-04-03T18:47:44 #kisslinux <dilyn> Not sure what you mean
2021-04-03T18:48:00 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i use an rpn calculator sometimes noocsharp so
2021-04-03T18:48:04 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i'm at least familiar with it
2021-04-03T18:48:09 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and scheme is exclusively prefix
2021-04-03T18:48:21 #kisslinux <noocsharp> but like on wikipedia or a textbook
2021-04-03T18:48:31 #kisslinux <midfavila1> well, no, but I felt the need to specify
2021-04-03T18:48:34 #kisslinux <midfavila1> you have to understand
2021-04-03T18:48:41 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i'm at least 50% retarded when it comes to math
2021-04-03T18:48:51 #kisslinux <midfavila1> this should be obvious
2021-04-03T18:48:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> so do it slower
2021-04-03T18:49:03 #kisslinux <noocsharp> well im a math major and im 100% retarded with this
2021-04-03T18:49:05 #kisslinux <midfavila1> no like, I'm not *bad* at it
2021-04-03T18:49:07 #kisslinux <kiedtl> lol
2021-04-03T18:49:14 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i just know nothing beyond aritmetics
2021-04-03T18:49:23 #kisslinux <midfavila1> s/aritmetics/arithmetics/
2021-04-03T18:49:24 #kisslinux <kissbot> <midfavila1> i just know nothing beyond arithmetics
2021-04-03T18:49:26 #kisslinux <midfavila1> and some basic geometry
2021-04-03T18:49:33 #kisslinux * kiedtl find square root of midfavila1
2021-04-03T18:49:44 #kisslinux <midfavila1> the answer is i
2021-04-03T18:50:19 #kisslinux <dilyn> most things are arithmetic
2021-04-03T18:50:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> you can learn most of cryptography with just arithmetic
2021-04-03T18:50:31 #kisslinux <midfavila1> muh reunion of broken parts
2021-04-03T18:50:43 #kisslinux <midfavila1> muh calculus of infinitesimals
2021-04-03T18:50:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> hey robinson was a genius and ahead of his time
2021-04-03T18:51:05 #kisslinux <midfavila1> these are not numbers, these are numbers *and letters*, and the worst thing about it
2021-04-03T18:51:10 #kisslinux <midfavila1> is that the numbers are all over the fucking place
2021-04-03T18:51:30 #kisslinux <kiedtl> midfavila1 is a complex individual
2021-04-03T18:51:39 #kisslinux <midfavila1> i'm a complex something.
2021-04-03T18:51:41 #kisslinux <dilyn> I think he's showing he's the opposite...
2021-04-03T18:51:44 #kisslinux <kiedtl> s/complex/_Complex/
2021-04-03T18:51:45 #kisslinux <kissbot> <kiedtl> midfavila1 is a _Complex individual
2021-04-03T18:51:53 #kisslinux <dilyn> complex people can comprehend and unpack complex ideas
2021-04-03T18:52:18 #kisslinux <kiedtl> >the answer is i
2021-04-03T18:52:32 #kisslinux <acheam> ....and kernel panic again
2021-04-03T18:52:35 #kisslinux <midfavila1> you don't need to be a fucking cunt, dilyn
2021-04-03T18:52:43 #kisslinux <dilyn> noocsharp: considering you're the first to submit me patches via 'mail', would you prefer a direct mailing list, or an option to submit patches to github via an email?
2021-04-03T18:52:48 #kisslinux <dilyn> a la https://fire.fundersclub.com/
2021-04-03T18:52:52 #kisslinux <acheam> I don't have any more time to work on this today... will fix it tomorrow
2021-04-03T18:52:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> lel
2021-04-03T18:52:58 #kisslinux <dilyn> sry mid
2021-04-03T18:53:04 #kisslinux <midfavila1> just because I'm shitposting for the most part doesn't mean I'm not being honest. I can't control the fact that I had a shitty education.
2021-04-03T18:53:16 #kisslinux <midfavila1> it's not fucking funny
2021-04-03T18:53:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> it's never too late to learn :v
2021-04-03T18:53:21 #kisslinux <noocsharp> dilyn: indeed, that would be ideal
2021-04-03T18:53:36 #kisslinux <dilyn> which? a mailing list?
2021-04-03T18:53:45 #kisslinux <acheam> dilyn: I think the system needs to be standard, so either everyone uses a mailing list, or everyone uses GH (via web or via email)
2021-04-03T18:53:55 #kisslinux <kiedtl> midfavila1: I hope what I said didn't come of as rude; I was just making a stupid algebra joke :V
2021-04-03T18:54:08 #kisslinux <midfavila1> No, you're fine, I just don't appreciate it when people insult me.
2021-04-03T18:54:15 #kisslinux <dilyn> acheam: I like the idea of it all being centralized as well, but I want to hear if there's opposition
2021-04-03T18:54:22 #kisslinux <midfavila1> Anyways, a mailing list is better because it's more accessible.
2021-04-03T18:54:24 #kisslinux <noocsharp> either or, i agree with acheam, just keep it consistent
2021-04-03T18:54:32 #kisslinux <dilyn> for instance, having a separate list might make leaving github easier if it might ever come to that
2021-04-03T18:55:13 #kisslinux <dilyn> a mailing list for just patches seems like overkill, but people were interested in mailing lists; I just dont' see what an ML accomplishes that github issues and IRC cannot :S
2021-04-03T18:55:32 #kisslinux <noocsharp> less dependence on github
2021-04-03T18:55:54 #kisslinux <dilyn> mmhmm
2021-04-03T18:55:56 #kisslinux <midfavila1> Well, whatever. I'll be back later. You guys have fun hashing out patching infrastructure.
2021-04-03T18:56:32 #kisslinux <dilyn> you know, 'how to create a mailing list' does not return useful search results.
2021-04-03T18:56:41 #kisslinux <dilyn> fuck SEO, fuck spam lists, fuck newsletters.
2021-04-03T18:57:06 #kisslinux <kiedtl> check the providers of some popular mls
2021-04-03T18:57:10 #kisslinux <kiedtl> e.g. orbitalfox...?
2021-04-03T18:57:11 #kisslinux <noocsharp> can't sourcehut be used to set up just a mailing list? thats self-hostable?
2021-04-03T18:57:15 #kisslinux <kiedtl> ^^
2021-04-03T18:57:19 #kisslinux <dilyn> yes
2021-04-03T18:57:24 #kisslinux <dilyn> I'm also peaking at sourcehut
2021-04-03T18:57:31 #kisslinux <dilyn> ddevault will win yet again :(
2021-04-03T18:57:38 #kisslinux <kiedtl> lol
2021-04-03T18:58:16 #kisslinux <acheam> lists.sr.ht is a pain
2021-04-03T18:58:23 #kisslinux <acheam> causal.agency has a solution
2021-04-03T18:58:28 #kisslinux <noocsharp> how so?
2021-04-03T18:59:34 #kisslinux <acheam> the whole sr.ht stack is a pain to self host, and packaging it for kiss would be a pain. It needs postgres, redis, a mail server, a web server (nginx), a wsgi server (gunicorn), and meta.sr.ht
2021-04-03T18:59:46 #kisslinux <dilyn> holy jesus
2021-04-03T18:59:55 #kisslinux <noocsharp> ah, i see
2021-04-03T18:59:56 #kisslinux <dilyn> muh all-in-one
2021-04-03T19:00:16 #kisslinux <kiedtl> oof
2021-04-03T19:00:17 #kisslinux <acheam> the causal.agency solution is just to sync with an email adress using mbsync or offlineimap, etc, and to generate static pages from the mbox files
2021-04-03T19:00:43 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Isn't it possible to *only* self-host the ML bit of sr.ht? Or are the components too tightly coupled?
2021-04-03T19:00:56 #kisslinux <acheam> no its designed to be easily decoupled
2021-04-03T19:01:00 #kisslinux <acheam> but you still need all of the above
2021-04-03T19:01:04 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Ouch.
2021-04-03T19:01:18 #kisslinux <acheam> once you have the core stuff setup, its easy to add/remove services
2021-04-03T19:01:54 #kisslinux <dilyn> hrm
2021-04-03T19:02:18 #kisslinux <dilyn> i mean then I would just opt to not host it on KISS and use docker lmfao
2021-04-03T19:02:26 #kisslinux <dilyn> but then we're just admitting defeat!
2021-04-03T19:02:29 #kisslinux <acheam> there are no docker images
2021-04-03T19:02:30 #kisslinux <dilyn> hm
2021-04-03T19:02:33 #kisslinux <acheam> ddevault is adamantly against
2021-04-03T19:02:40 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol ofc
2021-04-03T19:02:55 #kisslinux <acheam> "You must do everythign by hand to be a *real* sysadmin"
2021-04-03T19:03:05 #kisslinux <acheam> "docker just hides whats actualy happening"
2021-04-03T19:03:16 #kisslinux <acheam> etc etc
2021-04-03T19:03:35 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I wonder what happened to simplicity there with sr.ht.
2021-04-03T19:03:35 #kisslinux <acheam> i brought up the idea once and got adequately flamed for it
2021-04-03T19:03:37 #kisslinux <dilyn> most things hide what is actually happening, DREW
2021-04-03T19:03:42 #kisslinux <dilyn> wayland doesn't tell me what it's doing dammit
2021-04-03T19:03:48 #kisslinux <acheam> kiedtl: it is simple, its just not easy
2021-04-03T19:03:51 #kisslinux <acheam> like kiss
2021-04-03T19:03:55 #kisslinux <noocsharp> WAYLAND_DEBUG=1
2021-04-03T19:04:15 #kisslinux <dilyn> DOCKER_DEBUG=fuckme
2021-04-03T19:04:23 #kisslinux <noocsharp> it tells you EVERYTHING that its doing if you want
2021-04-03T19:04:37 #kisslinux <kiedtl> I want my risc-v processor to tell me what instruction it's handling
2021-04-03T19:04:50 #kisslinux <dilyn> i'd rather it never talked to me. I regret everythingn
2021-04-03T19:05:32 #kisslinux <noocsharp> lmao
2021-04-03T19:08:49 #kisslinux <dilyn> Alright so I think my plan is to implement fire-bot for the repos and then based on usage that will inform future decisions re: mailing list and all that entails
2021-04-03T19:09:06 #kisslinux <dilyn> this seems like the best plan because 1) less immediate work 2) testing ground :v
2021-04-03T19:09:15 #kisslinux <dilyn> and I'll look into other things in the meanwhile
2021-04-03T19:09:54 #kisslinux <acheam> cool
2021-04-03T19:10:01 #kisslinux <acheam> does fire do prs or just issues?
2021-04-03T19:10:01 #kisslinux <noocsharp> very rough, probably bad idea: opensmtpd delivers to maildir, so you can listen for updates in a maildir and forward them to the people on the list as they arrive
2021-04-03T19:10:15 #kisslinux <dilyn> hm that's interesting
2021-04-03T19:10:32 #kisslinux <dilyn> I mean, the simpler the solution the better. I doubt we need any actually real and complicated infra behind it
2021-04-03T19:10:37 #kisslinux <dilyn> we're not like libc lol
2021-04-03T19:10:52 #kisslinux <dilyn> acheam I think it's just issues
2021-04-03T19:10:54 #kisslinux <dilyn> hm
2021-04-03T19:10:56 #kisslinux <acheam> hmmmmm
2021-04-03T19:10:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> danggum
2021-04-03T19:11:13 #kisslinux <acheam> then I am leaning towards a mailing list actually
2021-04-03T19:11:19 #kisslinux <dilyn> yah
2021-04-03T19:11:28 #kisslinux <acheam> just a simple one, the causal.agency way or similar
2021-04-03T19:11:31 #kisslinux <dilyn> you could always use github CLI! that's how I make issues and PRs on my home PC lol
2021-04-03T19:12:09 #kisslinux <acheam> *no*
2021-04-03T19:12:25 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol
2021-04-03T19:12:39 #kisslinux <dilyn> it's actually super intuitive and user friendly :P
2021-04-03T19:13:06 #kisslinux <noocsharp> that's why im announcing today that im switching to ubuntu
2021-04-03T19:13:13 #kisslinux <dilyn> hng
2021-04-03T19:13:54 #kisslinux <acheam> yesterday my dad asked me "why are you compiling the kernel... hasn't someone already done that? why can't you just download windows and use it"
2021-04-03T19:14:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> ded
2021-04-03T19:14:15 #kisslinux <acheam> we do things because they are hard!
2021-04-03T19:14:18 #kisslinux <acheam> and muh control
2021-04-03T19:14:18 #kisslinux <dilyn> 'yes dad, i did it last week. there's a new one'
2021-04-03T19:14:24 #kisslinux <dilyn> i'm installing a new windows
2021-04-03T19:14:24 #kisslinux <noocsharp> my dad used to do this shit back in like 2000
2021-04-03T19:14:37 #kisslinux <noocsharp> now he uses macos
2021-04-03T19:14:47 #kisslinux <dilyn> pro computer user
2021-04-03T19:14:57 #kisslinux <acheam> it seems that a lot of old linux/unix people use macos now
2021-04-03T19:15:08 #kisslinux <dilyn> <:
2021-04-03T19:15:37 #kisslinux <acheam> (i'm talking like 1970s-80s-90s old)
2021-04-03T19:16:00 #kisslinux <acheam> s/old/when they used unix/g
2021-04-03T19:16:01 #kisslinux <kissbot> <acheam> (i'm talking like 1970s-80s-90s when they used unix)
2021-04-03T19:16:24 #kisslinux <acheam> this whole thought train is a wreck jesus
2021-04-03T19:16:25 #kisslinux <dilyn> 90s?
2021-04-03T19:16:28 #kisslinux <dilyn> am now official old
2021-04-03T19:16:34 #kisslinux <acheam> not birth age
2021-04-03T19:16:46 #kisslinux <dilyn> i am no longer an old
2021-04-03T19:16:47 #kisslinux <acheam> age at which they would have used/developed on unix
2021-04-03T19:16:57 #kisslinux <acheam> just forget the last 6 messages I sent
2021-04-03T19:17:02 #kisslinux <dilyn> lol
2021-04-03T19:17:41 #kisslinux <dilyn> linode charged me for my usage last month!
2021-04-03T19:17:44 #kisslinux <acheam> https://text.causal.agency/019-mailing-list.txt
2021-04-03T19:17:46 #kisslinux <dilyn> i thought I had $100 credit!
2021-04-03T19:17:51 #kisslinux <dilyn> KISS is going to bankrupt me!
2021-04-03T19:17:57 #kisslinux <acheam> oof
2021-04-03T19:18:05 #kisslinux <acheam> the credit is how they get you hooked
2021-04-03T19:18:18 #kisslinux <dilyn> they should've used the credit and not charged me is what I mean
2021-04-03T19:18:23 #kisslinux <dilyn> that was my first month
2021-04-03T19:18:27 #kisslinux <dilyn> maybe i missed something :(
2021-04-03T19:18:29 #kisslinux <acheam> oh okay
2021-04-03T19:18:36 #kisslinux <acheam> wow did you not read the terms and conditions
2021-04-03T19:18:46 #kisslinux <dilyn> something something sixty days to use it
2021-04-03T19:19:35 #kisslinux <noocsharp> hostwinds charges me extra if i have an iso mounted for too long
2021-04-03T19:19:35 #kisslinux <dilyn> their support was actually super helpful last time i talked to them. I didn't even know they had a full set of command line tools you could use
2021-04-03T19:19:41 #kisslinux <dilyn> very powerful. big fan.
2021-04-03T19:19:46 #kisslinux <dilyn> perfect 5/7
2021-04-03T19:19:49 #kisslinux <dilyn>  /advertisement
2021-04-03T19:20:12 #kisslinux <acheam> noocsharp: bruh what
2021-04-03T19:20:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> though tbh I could probably just get away with turning my mac into the host lmao
2021-04-03T19:20:25 #kisslinux <dilyn> that sounds... wow what
2021-04-03T19:20:38 #kisslinux <dilyn> "stop hogging our CD drive lad"
2021-04-03T19:20:41 #kisslinux <noocsharp> they count it as storage or something
2021-04-03T19:20:47 #kisslinux <dilyn> lmaaoooooo
2021-04-03T19:20:57 #kisslinux <acheam> i mean... I guess you could load up a 2 tb iso file
2021-04-03T19:20:59 #kisslinux <acheam> lol
2021-04-03T19:21:11 #kisslinux <noocsharp> im doing openbsd iso's lmao
2021-04-03T19:21:25 #kisslinux <acheam> every time you load up an iso, someone has to burn it to a cd and walk it over to the server
2021-04-03T19:21:44 #kisslinux <noocsharp> thats what it seems like
2021-04-03T19:21:46 #kisslinux <acheam> except you can't use it on friday nights
2021-04-03T19:21:56 #kisslinux <acheam> because they use the cd drive for a movie night
2021-04-03T19:23:31 #kisslinux <dilyn> that sounds like the kind of service I would provide
2021-04-03T19:29:04 #kisslinux <noocsharp> tbh id like to just self-host, but not sure my isp would like that
2021-04-03T19:29:49 #kisslinux <acheam> isp's are usually fine with anything but 25 in the US
2021-04-03T19:30:02 #kisslinux <acheam> s/25/port 25/
2021-04-03T19:30:04 #kisslinux <kissbot> <acheam> isp's are usually fine with anything but port 25 in the US
2021-04-03T19:31:02 #kisslinux <noocsharp> and i also then have to deal with dynamic ip addresses
2021-04-03T19:31:10 #kisslinux <acheam> hmm
2021-04-03T19:31:19 #kisslinux <acheam> you could use duckdns or the like
2021-04-03T19:31:45 #kisslinux <acheam> testuser_[m] is good with that stuff
2021-04-03T19:34:26 #kisslinux <noocsharp> hmm, maybe i could have my vps act like a proxy to a local rpi, which will free up some resources to do other stuff on the vps
2021-04-03T19:34:34 #kisslinux <dilyn> whatever happened to tracer :(
2021-04-03T19:39:21 #kisslinux <dilyn> acheam: that post is really cool
2021-04-03T19:39:57 #kisslinux <acheam> :)
2021-04-03T19:41:08 #kisslinux <dilyn> honestly this may be the way to go...
2021-04-03T19:41:17 #kisslinux <dilyn> gah y'all are gonna make me learn so many things :v
2021-04-03T19:42:14 #kisslinux <noocsharp> are you talking about the mailing list one
2021-04-03T19:42:27 #kisslinux <dilyn> mmhmm
2021-04-03T19:44:24 #kisslinux <noocsharp> i think imap is a tad overkill for this, i feel like the same thing can be done with opensmtpd + shell scripts
2021-04-03T19:44:37 #kisslinux <noocsharp> maybe im missing something
2021-04-03T19:45:29 #kisslinux <dilyn> i mean probably...
2021-04-03T19:45:43 #kisslinux <noocsharp> also maybe the work of developing something yourself isn't worth it, given that this is already known working, and simple enough
2021-04-03T19:45:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> mmhmm
2021-04-03T19:46:28 #kisslinux <dilyn> yet again, openbsd comes in clutch
2021-04-03T19:47:02 #kisslinux <dilyn> I had an interview for a coding job a year ago and they asked me what I knew about mail severs. I told them "I've heard of Mutt"
2021-04-03T19:47:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> the interview promptly ended
2021-04-03T19:47:46 #kisslinux <noocsharp> haha, damn
2021-04-03T19:51:37 #kisslinux <dilyn> the solution of just having fastmail CC everyone on mails going to a specific address is hilarious and I love it
2021-04-03T19:51:42 #kisslinux <dilyn> I wonder if tutanota can do it...
2021-04-03T19:51:46 #kisslinux <dilyn> I wouldn't be... surprised...
2021-04-03T19:54:14 #kisslinux <helby> tutanota still can't, it's in 'feature list' I think
2021-04-03T19:54:34 #kisslinux <dilyn> :'(
2021-04-03T19:55:00 #kisslinux <helby> but most providers can :/
2021-04-03T20:00:12 #kisslinux <noocsharp> google groups!
2021-04-03T20:00:41 #kisslinux <dilyn> ah yes perfect
2021-04-03T20:01:07 #kisslinux <dilyn> helby are you telling me my email provider is bad >=(
2021-04-03T20:01:14 #kisslinux <dilyn> they're mediocre and it's sad :(
2021-04-03T20:01:14 #kisslinux <florianjr> Has anyone else the problem that they can't build a kernel with firmware for example amdgpu?
2021-04-03T20:01:31 #kisslinux <dilyn> I can't login on my PC with chromium because I need to have libgcrypt. top 10 anime betrayals
2021-04-03T20:01:42 #kisslinux <dilyn> florianjr: what's the exact issue?
2021-04-03T20:01:51 #kisslinux <florianjr> Could be the busybox version of the diff command the problem
2021-04-03T20:01:54 #kisslinux <dilyn> does the build error or it succeeds and it just isn't there
2021-04-03T20:02:01 #kisslinux <florianjr> Wait a sec, ill give you more info
2021-04-03T20:02:28 #kisslinux <helby> dilyn: used them for years, pretty shit to be honest
2021-04-03T20:02:49 #kisslinux <dilyn> I sync all my passwords that I encrypt with my secret key through a private git repo, and I didn't push my latest round of passwords so now I can't login to my account with my domain provider... smdh
2021-04-03T20:03:05 #kisslinux <dilyn> they only implemented the ability to report spam... a year ago
2021-04-03T20:03:07 #kisslinux <dilyn> it bad lol
2021-04-03T20:03:32 #kisslinux <noocsharp> in all my time self-hosting, ive only gotten like 3 pieces of spam
2021-04-03T20:03:39 #kisslinux <dilyn> :o
2021-04-03T20:03:57 #kisslinux <dilyn> i posted my email to like four job boards and 50% of my email is fake job ads
2021-04-03T20:04:01 #kisslinux <noocsharp> i think all of it from gmail
2021-04-03T20:04:05 #kisslinux <helby>  yes u got 3 spam but u finished in spam all the time :/
2021-04-03T20:04:08 #kisslinux <dilyn> contemplated deleting my account after that tbh
2021-04-03T20:04:31 #kisslinux <noocsharp> i use a gmail address for job stuff, want to keep my self-hosted stuff pure
2021-04-03T20:05:09 #kisslinux <dilyn> I had my hand over the 'delete my google account' button the week i started looking for jobs so I thought it would be nice to nto have to change it later
2021-04-03T20:05:12 #kisslinux <dilyn> LITTLE DID I KNOW
2021-04-03T20:05:48 #kisslinux <helby> when I need 'serious' email I create temporary gmail/outlook or other crap, when job is done, I delete that shit
2021-04-03T20:05:58 #kisslinux <helby> now pretty okay with dismail
2021-04-03T20:06:10 #kisslinux <dilyn> #10minutemail.com
2021-04-03T20:06:51 #kisslinux <florianjr> https://pastebin.com/nbuLJ2tq
2021-04-03T20:06:53 #kisslinux <florianjr> Like this
2021-04-03T20:07:33 #kisslinux <florianjr> But i extracted the contents of the linux-firmware right of kernel.org into /usr/lib/firmware
2021-04-03T20:08:04 #kisslinux <dilyn> did you list out every firwmare you needed in the CONFIG_EXTRA_FIRMWARE?
2021-04-03T20:08:16 #kisslinux <dilyn> a space separated list relative to CONFIG_FIRMWARE_DIR
2021-04-03T20:08:25 #kisslinux <florianjr> yeah
2021-04-03T20:08:31 #kisslinux <florianjr> i think i am dumb
2021-04-03T20:08:57 #kisslinux <florianjr> i had checked the firmware folder outside the chroot and thought it was okay
2021-04-03T20:09:14 #kisslinux <florianjr> i'll try again, pls give me a moment
2021-04-03T20:09:32 #kisslinux <dilyn> for my amdgpu I have this: https://github.com/dilyn-corner/KISS-me/blob/8ff2ea9dc80c1a13569f2dd6a45e3f5d982c42cd/gpl/linux/files/.config#L1088
2021-04-03T20:15:26 #kisslinux <florianjr> it compiled well, sorry for the disturb. i just forgot to move my bin files into /usr/lib/firmware/amdgpu instead of only /usr/lib/firmware. Thank you for your quick help, i found my own mistake :)
2021-04-03T20:16:55 #kisslinux <dilyn> :)
2021-04-03T20:17:09 #kisslinux <dilyn> the first amdgpu problem that was actually resolved, and in less than two days. we've set a new record fam
2021-04-03T20:18:48 #kisslinux <florianjr> im coming a huge fanboy of gentoo and decided to try something simple in a chroot. Lets see if it boots. I like your project and the community, as far as i already saw :)
2021-04-03T20:19:08 #kisslinux <florianjr> if its so easy, i'll maybe contribute some packages
2021-04-03T21:36:52 #kisslinux <acheam> dilyn /is/ the community according to florian
2021-04-03T21:39:02 #kisslinux <noocsharp> not yet
2021-04-03T21:40:31 #kisslinux <acheam> so is there any reason to use uefi besides the possibility of using efistub?
2021-04-03T21:41:07 #kisslinux <acheam> because thats pretty much all I got out of the conversation earlier
2021-04-03T21:41:07 #kisslinux <noocsharp> dammit, you were supposed to say 'its treason then'
2021-04-03T21:41:14 #kisslinux <acheam> oh
2021-04-03T21:41:18 #kisslinux <acheam> i don't get the reference :(
2021-04-03T21:43:49 #kisslinux <noocsharp> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA_1g3hGgNc
2021-04-03T21:47:40 #kisslinux <dilyn> UEFI allows you to do all sorts of things
2021-04-03T21:47:50 #kisslinux <dilyn> there are a bunch of papers put up about it...
2021-04-03T21:47:59 #kisslinux <dilyn> it's basically like, 'BIOS but better(tm)'
2021-04-03T21:48:04 #kisslinux <dilyn> in many ways it is legimiately better
2021-04-03T21:55:39 #kisslinux <acheam> hmm
2021-04-03T21:56:04 #kisslinux <acheam> ah
2021-04-03T21:58:32 #kisslinux <acheam> argh it takes longer to reboot this server than to recompile the kernel i'm rebooting to test
2021-04-03T22:04:49 #kisslinux <noocsharp> what kind of server do you have?
2021-04-03T22:08:37 #kisslinux <dilyn> a bad one apparently
2021-04-03T22:09:35 #kisslinux <kiedtl> A pretty horrible one, apparently
2021-04-03T22:09:48 #kisslinux <kiedtl> if it takes longer to recompile a kernel than to reboot the server
2021-04-03T22:11:33 #kisslinux <acheam> wait
2021-04-03T22:11:36 #kisslinux <acheam> i meant the other way around
2021-04-03T22:11:42 #kisslinux <acheam> wait now
2021-04-03T22:11:44 #kisslinux <acheam> no
2021-04-03T22:11:46 #kisslinux <acheam> argh one sec
2021-04-03T22:12:00 #kisslinux <acheam> it takes longer to reboot than to recompile
2021-04-03T22:12:12 #kisslinux <acheam> kiedtl: I think you read it wrong
2021-04-03T22:12:28 #kisslinux <acheam> noocsharp: an 8th gen HP proliant
2021-04-03T22:12:32 #kisslinux <jslick> ECC RAM init time?
2021-04-03T22:12:49 #kisslinux <acheam> thats partly it, but it also does all these thermal checks, and raid array checks and stuff
2021-04-03T22:13:17 #kisslinux <acheam> it also goes through a few levels of prompting you to enter menus, all with their own long timeouts
2021-04-03T22:14:17 #kisslinux <kiedtl> Oh, yes, I phrased my message incorrectly
2021-04-03T22:14:21 #kisslinux <kiedtl> :V
2021-04-03T22:16:19 #kisslinux <acheam> :)
2021-04-03T23:23:38 #kisslinux <acheam> dilyn: https://envs.sh/jk.patch
2021-04-03T23:26:17 #kisslinux <noocsharp> ban pull requests: updates to the repos are now submitted as links to patches over irc
2021-04-03T23:26:49 #kisslinux <acheam> even better: paste them line by line into the irc buffer
2021-04-03T23:27:12 #kisslinux <noocsharp> don't tempt me, im using ii, so i can just pipe it in
2021-04-03T23:27:39 #kisslinux <acheam> git format-patch origin/main --stdout >> ~/irc/kisslinux
2021-04-03T23:27:43 #kisslinux <acheam> hnng
2021-04-03T23:47:35 #kisslinux <acheam> i'm forking doas to include insults, like sudo does... does anyone have any reccomendations for insults, kiss-specific or not
2021-04-03T23:48:31 #kisslinux <acheam> s/doas/opendoas
2021-04-03T23:48:33 #kisslinux <kissbot> <acheam> i'm forking opendoas to include insults, like sudo does... does anyone have any reccomendations for insults, kiss-specific or not
2021-04-03T23:52:16 #kisslinux <helby> yes if software is tiny and sane, why not pollute it with some nonsense :/
2021-04-03T23:52:41 #kisslinux <acheam> its more for practicing C than anything :)
2021-04-03T23:53:01 #kisslinux <acheam> i like my computer to have some personality
2021-04-03T23:58:56 #kisslinux <helby> put sticker on display then :/
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