2020-06-05T05:08:55 #kisslinux <dylan02> o/
2020-06-05T05:17:06 #kisslinux <icyphox> Heyo!
2020-06-05T05:17:31 #kisslinux <icyphox> I think I'm going to come back to KISS. OpenBSD has been nice... but still has some rough edges.
2020-06-05T05:32:20 #kisslinux <dylan02> Hello
2020-06-05T05:40:04 #kisslinux <dylan02> And... Welcome back. :)
2020-06-05T05:40:18 #kisslinux <dylan02> What problems did you have with OpenBSD?
2020-06-05T05:41:03 #kisslinux <dylan02> Little known fact... I was going to swap to OpenBSD but it didn't support my hardware. I then decided to create KISS. Had OpenBSD worked, KISS wouldn't exist!
2020-06-05T10:29:30 #kisslinux <claudia02> I have tried out openbsd 6.5 right before KISS in a distrohopping period. I would generally install it again for a computer to _just work_ . But after trying out KISS, openbsd felt kind of boring and I found the fun in tinkering with my system.
2020-06-05T11:45:47 #kisslinux <claudia02> I have updated my wayland-wiki article and would like to hear some feedback if there are improvements in the rationales and wording before submitting a new PR.
2020-06-05T11:45:59 #kisslinux <claudia02> https://termbin.com/cydq
2020-06-05T11:57:41 #kisslinux <ectlunya> change "This way of language" to "This protocol"
2020-06-05T11:59:51 #kisslinux <dylan02> claudia02: Nice!
2020-06-05T12:01:02 #kisslinux <ectlunya> "Fragmentation accross the different Wayland implementations lead to special," change "lead" to "leads"
2020-06-05T12:01:50 #kisslinux <ectlunya> the subject is the singular Fragmentation not the plural implimentations
2020-06-05T12:02:14 #kisslinux <merakor> I am writing wiki entries for other inits and service managers dylan02
2020-06-05T12:02:46 #kisslinux <claudia02> ectlunya: thanks for the rationale
2020-06-05T12:04:40 #kisslinux <ectlunya> in "there is no problem to make it" change "to make" to "making"
2020-06-05T12:05:22 #kisslinux <dylan02> merakor: Nice, thanks.
2020-06-05T12:05:44 #kisslinux <dylan02> claudia02: You should open a PR.
2020-06-05T12:05:56 #kisslinux <ectlunya> in "^ probably easier than just doing it here
2020-06-05T12:06:01 #kisslinux <dylan02> Yup
2020-06-05T12:06:27 #kisslinux <claudia02> kk (:
2020-06-05T12:06:45 #kisslinux <ectlunya> I noticed a few more things that I can leave a comment for
2020-06-05T12:08:36 #kisslinux <dylan02> > What do I need to install Wayland on KISS?
2020-06-05T12:08:42 #kisslinux <dylan02> This can just be: Prerequisites
2020-06-05T12:08:59 #kisslinux <dylan02> > CAVEATS
2020-06-05T12:09:06 #kisslinux <dylan02> This can be changed to Caveats.
2020-06-05T12:09:13 #kisslinux <dylan02> (To match the casing of the other headings)
2020-06-05T12:10:17 #kisslinux <ectlunya> in "some package adjustments are required to make them to known" change "to known" to "known to"
2020-06-05T12:10:32 #kisslinux <claudia02> PR is out
2020-06-05T12:11:04 #kisslinux <claudia02> Do you leave the comments there, and I adjust?
2020-06-05T12:11:30 #kisslinux <dylan02> Sure
2020-06-05T12:12:57 #kisslinux <dylan02> claudia02: There's a swp file in the PR:  wayland/.install-wayland.txt.swp
2020-06-05T12:14:06 #kisslinux <claudia02> I have spellechecked my article several times, but a program cant help that Iam a non native english speaker.
2020-06-05T12:14:18 #kisslinux <claudia02> Are there suggestions for good one?
2020-06-05T12:17:33 #kisslinux <claudia02> dylan02: Can I delete this on the gh website?
2020-06-05T12:17:39 #kisslinux <dylan02> I'm using vim's default spell checker.
2020-06-05T12:19:05 #kisslinux <dylan02> claudia02: I set: autocmd FileType markdown,text setlocal spell
2020-06-05T12:19:14 #kisslinux <dylan02> This works really well.
2020-06-05T12:23:48 #kisslinux <claudia02> Alright, I will look into that
2020-06-05T12:29:01 #kisslinux <dylan02> claudia02: You can maybe delete that file via GitHub.
2020-06-05T12:30:43 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> dylan02: never thought to use the vim spell checker.. might be a good inclusion in the wiki?  probably would have saved me a few typos... lol!
2020-06-05T12:30:56 #kisslinux <claudia02> I have resolved your recommendations. Thanks for support!
2020-06-05T12:31:19 #kisslinux <claudia02> oh, not yet
2020-06-05T12:32:09 #kisslinux <dylan02> mcpcpc[m]: Sure thing.
2020-06-05T12:35:26 #kisslinux <ectlunya> Why are there @'s in front of every link on the website?
2020-06-05T12:35:48 #kisslinux <claudia02> dylan02: I think only you can delete files of a PR. https://github.blog/changelog/2018-07-31-removing-files-from-a-pull-request/
2020-06-05T12:36:08 #kisslinux <claudia02> ectlunya: This is how the wiki can resolve links to github
2020-06-05T12:36:26 #kisslinux <claudia02> or the whole website
2020-06-05T12:36:37 #kisslinux <ectlunya> on the whole website
2020-06-05T12:36:53 #kisslinux <dylan02> The whole website
2020-06-05T12:37:12 #kisslinux <ectlunya> I understand why its needed for the source files but why are they still there on the main site?
2020-06-05T12:37:59 #kisslinux <dylan02> It keeps the .txt files free of HTML. The .txt files are used directly as offline documentation as well.
2020-06-05T12:38:36 #kisslinux <dylan02> Plus, you'll come to understand what each symbol means.
2020-06-05T12:38:50 #kisslinux <dylan02> @/ for relative documentation links and $/ for GitHub links.
2020-06-05T12:39:49 #kisslinux <ectlunya> the $ makes sense but there are so many relative links on the site that it seems sort of unecessary
2020-06-05T12:39:51 #kisslinux <dylan02> claudia02: The delete button is greyed out for me on the website. I can simply delete it post-merge if you like. No problem.
2020-06-05T12:40:18 #kisslinux <onodera> how can I make something like netflix or spotify work on firefox-bin?
2020-06-05T12:40:23 #kisslinux <onodera> it is missing the wildvine thing I think
2020-06-05T12:40:32 #kisslinux <dylan02> onodera: You cannot. The widevine DRM is a binary built with glibc.
2020-06-05T12:40:33 #kisslinux <claudia02> dylan02: Y, that would make it easy
2020-06-05T12:40:45 #kisslinux <onodera> seriously? that is kinda weird
2020-06-05T12:40:56 #kisslinux <onodera> ah it is closed source ofc
2020-06-05T12:40:59 #kisslinux <dylan02> Yup
2020-06-05T12:41:00 #kisslinux <onodera> great
2020-06-05T12:41:15 #kisslinux <dylan02> You can run Firefox in a chroot though. I had Netflix working this way a few months ago.
2020-06-05T12:41:26 #kisslinux <onodera> nah ill just use youtube for music then
2020-06-05T12:41:37 #kisslinux <dylan02> Or you can install pulseaudio + flatpak (less ideal).
2020-06-05T12:41:45 #kisslinux <onodera> companies forcing me to torrent
2020-06-05T12:41:49 #kisslinux <dylan02> Yes
2020-06-05T12:41:57 #kisslinux <dylan02> It's weird. Paying customers have it worse.
2020-06-05T12:42:24 #kisslinux <merakor> I use spotifyd
2020-06-05T12:42:42 #kisslinux <dylan02> Yeah, I've used it before. Worked well when I tried it.
2020-06-05T12:42:59 #kisslinux <dylan02> I've had success with mopidy + mpc too.
2020-06-05T12:43:06 #kisslinux <merakor> There is also mopidy extension for spotify
2020-06-05T12:43:10 #kisslinux <dylan02> Yup
2020-06-05T12:43:14 #kisslinux <merakor> But mopidy is python
2020-06-05T12:43:17 #kisslinux <onodera> what even is the point of something like widevine if you can just rip the music with something like spotifyd
2020-06-05T12:43:18 #kisslinux <merakor> :c
2020-06-05T12:43:56 #kisslinux <dylan02> onodera: Non-technical people make the decisions. ;)
2020-06-05T12:44:19 #kisslinux <merakor> Widevine is terrible
2020-06-05T12:44:27 #kisslinux <merakor> I mean drm as a whole is terrible
2020-06-05T12:44:31 #kisslinux <ectlunya> it's probably a licesning issue with the music they're using
2020-06-05T12:44:37 #kisslinux <dylan02> Oh yeah.
2020-06-05T12:44:46 #kisslinux <dylan02> Spotify are stuck between a rock and a hard place with music licensing.
2020-06-05T12:45:01 #kisslinux <dylan02> Something like 70% of their revenue goes towards licensing.
2020-06-05T12:45:22 #kisslinux <merakor> You can still rip everything under widevine it just makes the program 1000% more complicated and unstable
2020-06-05T12:49:44 #kisslinux <onodera> test one two
2020-06-05T12:55:32 #kisslinux <icyphox> Seems to work.
2020-06-05T12:58:10 #kisslinux <icyphox> dylan02: Is WebRTC disabled in firefox/firefox-bin?
2020-06-05T12:58:40 #kisslinux <icyphox> Looks like it is. Guess I'll have to build Fx myself then, lol. I need it for $WORK.
2020-06-05T12:58:54 #kisslinux <dylan02> icyphox: It is not, no. It will be if you have firefox-privacy installed though.
2020-06-05T12:59:01 #kisslinux <icyphox> Oh.
2020-06-05T12:59:05 #kisslinux <icyphox> Cool, then.
2020-06-05T12:59:25 #kisslinux <dylan02> You can simply adjust the settings in about:config when you have firefox-privacy installed though.
2020-06-05T13:01:14 #kisslinux <icyphox> I see. Thanks!
2020-06-05T13:16:35 #kisslinux <dylan02> claudia02: Apologies for the large number of comments...
2020-06-05T13:23:10 #kisslinux <claudia02> Yes, no problem. I have expected this, as its also written text which has to follow a style :D
2020-06-05T13:23:35 #kisslinux <claudia02> many little thins (:
2020-06-05T13:24:51 #kisslinux <claudia02> *things
2020-06-05T13:25:32 #kisslinux <dylan02> claudia02: What do you think about this change? https://termbin.com/lvg7
2020-06-05T13:28:04 #kisslinux <claudia02> dylan02: I have suggested something similar for the official repositories. Do you mean just for the article?
2020-06-05T13:29:35 #kisslinux <dylan02> For the official repositories. Not sure if I'll merge these or not. Just doing some testing.
2020-06-05T13:30:39 #kisslinux <dylan02> I think it's best we visit this later though.
2020-06-05T13:31:00 #kisslinux <claudia02> I think it "looks" nice. But I think when you are going to install Wayland, you dont need to enable it conditionally.
2020-06-05T13:31:12 #kisslinux <claudia02> I have to go now. Will be on later.
2020-06-05T13:31:32 #kisslinux <dylan02> Sure
2020-06-05T14:02:42 #kisslinux <illiliti> claudia02: wlroots udev dependency theoritically can be avoided by using vdev libudev-compat library
2020-06-05T14:03:14 #kisslinux <illiliti> also weston doesn't depend on udev
2020-06-05T14:05:40 #kisslinux <illiliti> wayland has better HiDPI support
2020-06-05T14:08:35 #kisslinux <illiliti> wayland has faster startup time
2020-06-05T14:16:18 #kisslinux <dylan02> Wayland is probably smaller than Xorg too.
2020-06-05T14:17:51 #kisslinux <dylan02> illiliti: vdev's libudev-compat didn't work for me last time I tried it. It's too outdated sadly.
2020-06-05T14:18:20 #kisslinux <dylan02> illiliti: How does Weston do device management? By using /dev/ directly?
2020-06-05T14:19:02 #kisslinux <dylan02> Weston seems to use udev throughout? https://github.com/wayland-project/weston/search?q=udev&unscoped_q=udev
2020-06-05T14:23:19 #kisslinux <illiliti> weston uses libinput for input/output which can be used without udev, no ?
2020-06-05T14:25:02 #kisslinux <illiliti> it also provides headless backends which doesn't depends on udev
2020-06-05T14:28:30 #kisslinux <dylan02> illiliti: It still links to udev no? #include <libudev.h> is used in libinput-seat.c, fbdev.c and drm.c.
2020-06-05T14:29:07 #kisslinux <dylan02> In a non-headless, desktop context it's a requirement no?
2020-06-05T14:31:49 #kisslinux <illiliti> ah, i see
2020-06-05T14:32:18 #kisslinux <illiliti> yes
2020-06-05T14:34:53 #kisslinux <dylan02> A lot more results for udev when searching via GitLab: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/search?group_id=&nav_source=navbar&project_id=120&repository_ref=master&search=udev&search_code=true
2020-06-05T15:13:54 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> dylan02: on the new tiv package, the output of kiss-manifest is correct.  weird thing is i can only “kiss b tiv” as root.  it fails otherwise for permissions https://clbin.com/4OMd4
2020-06-05T15:14:17 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> dylan02: might explain the missing paths in the manifest?
2020-06-05T15:15:34 #kisslinux <dylan02> Yes
2020-06-05T15:15:42 #kisslinux <dylan02> Looks like it installed directly to / instead of "$1/".
2020-06-05T15:16:06 #kisslinux <dylan02> I don't think it understands DESTDIR.
2020-06-05T15:17:08 #kisslinux <dylan02> That's odd: https://github.com/stefanhaustein/TerminalImageViewer/blob/master/src/main/cpp/Makefile#L27
2020-06-05T15:17:11 #kisslinux <dylan02> It does support it.
2020-06-05T15:18:11 #kisslinux <dylan02> It seems to be 'prefix' instead of 'PREFIX' as well.
2020-06-05T15:18:37 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> hmm ok.
2020-06-05T15:18:42 #kisslinux <dylan02> I'd simply install the binary manually.
2020-06-05T15:18:55 #kisslinux <dylan02> Example: install -Dm755 tiv "$1/usr/bin/tiv"
2020-06-05T15:20:10 #kisslinux <dylan02> (For reference: No package build should ever require root. This is a sign that the build needs fixing.)
2020-06-05T15:20:28 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> lol. kk
2020-06-05T15:21:07 #kisslinux <konimex> so DESTDIR=$1 prefix=/usr ?
2020-06-05T15:21:12 #kisslinux <konimex> odd variable naming though
2020-06-05T15:26:27 #kisslinux <mcpcpc[m]> dylan02: builds fine with regular user.  will update the manifest and build file.  appreciate the help :)
2020-06-05T15:33:14 #kisslinux <dylan02> No problem. :)
2020-06-05T15:33:53 #kisslinux <dylan02> konimex: It doesn't seem to be picking up DESTDIR regardless. Either way, it's a single binary so using install is fine.
2020-06-05T15:36:00 #kisslinux <E5ten> Didn't mcf have a libinput with udev patched out or something?
2020-06-05T15:46:43 #kisslinux <dylan02> E5ten: Yeah. KISS uses it. It isn't without caveats though. When used with Xorg you must tell Xorg which /dev/input devices to use for each device.
2020-06-05T15:47:07 #kisslinux <dylan02> Regardless, weston links to udev directly.
2020-06-05T15:48:31 #kisslinux <dylan02> E5ten: We use it in the form of a patch (was using mcf's repository prior though). https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/blob/master/extra/libinput/patches/libinput-optional-udev.patch
2020-06-05T16:07:42 #kisslinux <himmalerin> Trying to get flatpaks working, when I try to run GIMP bwrap complains about the kernel not supporting user namespaces. Besides enabling "FUSE (Filesystem in Userspace) support" in the kernel what needs to be done?
2020-06-05T16:13:09 #kisslinux <himmalerin> Not sure why I thought I needed FUSE enabled, turns out its CONFIG_USER_NS. will rebuild kernel with that enabled and report back, hopefully with flatpaks working!
2020-06-05T16:16:31 #kisslinux <E5ten> dylan02: yeah I have to do the same for telling Xorg what devices to use for evdev and xorg without udev
2020-06-05T16:30:36 #kisslinux <himmalerin> Still not launching, but I think thats a wayland thing now, not a kernel issue. So thats progress!
2020-06-05T17:21:46 #kisslinux <claudia02> illiliti: can you provide references for wayland has better startup time / HiDPI support?
2020-06-05T17:22:15 #kisslinux <claudia02> I have found an article about startup, but this is about gnome(mutter) on systemd :2020-06-05T17:22:26 #kisslinux <claudia02> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=gnome-326-x11way&num=1
2020-06-05T18:14:58 #kisslinux <illiliti> i don't have any references. it's my own experience
2020-06-05T18:15:15 #kisslinux <illiliti> just compare startup time of sway and any xorg wm
2020-06-05T18:15:40 #kisslinux <illiliti> In sway i can simply set `scale` parameter. In xorg i need a lot of hacks - environment variables, xresorces, xrandr, gsettings, ...
2020-06-05T18:26:52 #kisslinux <claudia02> Alright. As this article might be cirtically evaluated, I tried to build up my statements on references and not personal experiences.
2020-06-05T22:19:26 #kisslinux <illiliti> gcc 10 is stable enough to update ?
2020-06-05T22:27:31 #kisslinux <illiliti> i see a lot of packages breaks due to '-fcommon' issue
2020-06-05T23:38:37 #kisslinux <onodera> it should be stable by now
2020-06-05T23:38:53 #kisslinux <onodera> probably more stable than gcc 9 because nobody is using that anymore on kiss i think
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