2019-10-08T00:05:32 #kisslinux <konimex> dylan, I think it is possible to build compiler-rt without "merging" clang to llvm main package, using the very same approach with clang to llvm, since compiler-rt doesn't work without clang, why not make a compiler-rt pkg and make it depend on clang?
2019-10-08T00:37:52 #kisslinux <konimex> as for libcxx, libcxxabi, and libunwind, though, I'm not really sure whether these should be a part of llvm or not
2019-10-08T00:55:18 #kisslinux <konimex> actually, disregard. I fear circular dependency might happen
2019-10-08T06:00:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> konimex: It has to all happen at once else clang will link to gcc.
2019-10-08T06:36:19 #kisslinux <konimex> yes, that's why I said circular dependencies so clang would have to be rebuilt after compiler-rt is installed
2019-10-08T06:36:59 #kisslinux <konimex> anyway, is "kiss u" always alphabetically sorted?
2019-10-08T06:37:06 #kisslinux <konimex> I forgot
2019-10-08T06:45:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No
2019-10-08T06:45:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Sorted based on dependencies.
2019-10-08T09:38:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> konimex: http://guix.gnu.org/blog/2019/joint-statement-on-the-gnu-project/
2019-10-08T09:39:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> GNU want Stallman gone too now.
2019-10-08T09:44:17 #kisslinux <konimex> some prominent names there. I recognize two names but not the others, but I'm not really sure on glibc, gcc, gdb, and binutils since a lot of the maintainers of the four are Red Hat employees
2019-10-08T09:50:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yeah, I know.
2019-10-08T09:50:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> There's a Google employee. as well.
2019-10-08T09:54:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/dekrn2/joint_statement_on_the_gnu_project/
2019-10-08T09:54:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Removed | Not relevant to community
2019-10-08T09:54:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> 10/10 /r/linux
2019-10-08T09:57:05 #kisslinux <konimex> I never thought a Google employee would contribute to gnu ecosystem
2019-10-08T09:57:35 #kisslinux <konimex> I thought one would contribute to Linux kernel or filesystem but not full-on gnu
2019-10-08T09:58:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This guy: https://github.com/ianlancetaylor
2019-10-08T09:59:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (GCC, binutils)
2019-10-08T09:59:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> >  Ian Lance Taylor has worked on GCC and other free software projects since 1990. He is the author of the Go frontend for GCC, the gold linker, and Taylor UUCP. He works at Google.
2019-10-08T09:59:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also someone from Mozilla.
2019-10-08T09:59:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/tromey
2019-10-08T10:00:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> (GCC, GDB)
2019-10-08T10:01:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Also the creator of GnuPG.
2019-10-08T10:02:00 #kisslinux <konimex> > since 1990
2019-10-08T10:02:05 #kisslinux <konimex> that's an old timer
2019-10-08T10:02:14 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2019-10-08T10:02:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Comment from one of the GNU developers on lobsters:
2019-10-08T10:02:30 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> >
2019-10-08T10:02:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No plan yet, just a plan to discuss. I am personally in favour of a steering committee. It seems to have mostly worked for gcc. I got to see some gcc people a couple of weeks ago for GNU cauldron, and that was fun. I would like something more like that.
2019-10-08T10:02:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> >
2019-10-08T10:02:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If you ask me (which I think you did), this should have happened years ago, but yes, the recent incidents were the final push we all needed.
2019-10-08T10:03:05 #kisslinux <konimex> iirc GCC already has a steering committee already, but don't know about gnu as a whole
2019-10-08T10:03:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > GNU doesn't iirc.
2019-10-08T10:04:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Which is why they want to move to one.
2019-10-08T10:04:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > How was this coordinated?
2019-10-08T10:04:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Private emails. We all were kind of aware of each other and Ludovic started an email thread where we discussed this.
2019-10-08T10:04:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> There are 500 GNU projects (100 discontinued) so this makes up 5%~ of GNU developers.
2019-10-08T10:08:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Lovely article....
2019-10-08T10:08:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/10/07/gnu_stallman_protest/
2019-10-08T10:08:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > GNU means GNU's Not U: Stallman insists he's still Chief GNUisance while 18 maintainers want him out as leader
2019-10-08T10:09:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > "I don't intend to step down as head of the GNU Project," he said. "I could agree to incremental changes in how some decisions are made if I am confident that won't lead to unbounded radical changes."
2019-10-08T10:09:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > "I am still the head of the GNU Project (the Chief GNUisance), and I intend to continue as such."
2019-10-08T10:10:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> From Lee (last name(?)):
2019-10-08T10:10:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > "I am personally disappointed that Richard is choosing to continue as leader of GNU," said Lee. "I think the GNU Advisory Committee is better suited to lead things. I believe both the FSF board and the GAC need term limits and I hope they implement them."
2019-10-08T10:11:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Looks like they want to leave GNU if nothing changes(?): https://freesw.org/
2019-10-08T10:12:26 #kisslinux <konimex> no details there, really
2019-10-08T10:12:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nope
2019-10-08T10:13:25 #kisslinux <konimex> just a "general statement", don't know from where, but a namedrop of Debian DFSG
2019-10-08T10:13:28 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's hosted on Cloudflare though.
2019-10-08T10:13:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> That link was mentioned in the article I posted above.
2019-10-08T10:13:56 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This Lee person again it looks like.
2019-10-08T10:14:26 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Bingo.
2019-10-08T10:15:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://twitter.com/mattl/status/1177684012137144321
2019-10-08T10:15:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Matt Lee
2019-10-08T10:15:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > reesw.org is a thing I'm trying to get started as a response to the problems in free software. I want to unite the free and open source software communities and promote all related projects.
2019-10-08T10:15:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> freesw.org*
2019-10-08T10:16:18 #kisslinux <konimex> so... the new freedesktop or the new GNU?
2019-10-08T10:16:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > freesw.org is 3 weeks 2 days old.
2019-10-08T10:17:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I forsee GNOME joining it.
2019-10-08T10:17:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://twitter.com/mattl/status/1177355118829854720
2019-10-08T10:17:28 #kisslinux <konimex> I'm really surprised Stallman doesn't have any contigency plans though since this means FSF-GNU has a bus factor of 1. Even Torvalds has Greg KH and/or Andrew Morton for his backups
2019-10-08T10:19:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Well, we don't know what happened behind the scenes.
2019-10-08T10:19:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://twitter.com/mattl/status/1174021619502735362
2019-10-08T10:20:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://twitter.com/mattl/status/1174380382977953794
2019-10-08T10:20:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://twitter.com/mattl/status/1174335059027013633
2019-10-08T10:21:36 #kisslinux <konimex> well, I mean, Stallman has a doctorate title (honoris causa, maybe?)
2019-10-08T10:23:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman#Honors_and_awards
2019-10-08T10:24:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2019-10-08T10:28:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> They're too hostile towards RMS.
2019-10-08T10:28:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's saddening.
2019-10-08T10:29:24 #kisslinux <konimex> I don't know about others but Matt in particular seem to have a personal beef with Stallman
2019-10-08T10:30:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://gitlab.com/freesw/freesw.org
2019-10-08T10:30:22 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://gitlab.com/freesw
2019-10-08T10:30:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Blank right now.
2019-10-08T10:33:22 #kisslinux <konimex> you know, I have a feeling the GIMP fork would join them one day
2019-10-08T10:38:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Glimpse will be nothing more than a rename.
2019-10-08T10:38:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/glimpse-editor/Glimpse/commits/dev-g210
2019-10-08T10:44:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> See: https://github.com/glimpse-editor/Glimpse/issues/70
2019-10-08T10:44:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Just big ideas and talk.
2019-10-08T10:50:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/glimpse-editor/Glimpse/issues/38
2019-10-08T11:01:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Seriously, read the progress posts. It's all Social Media and rebranding. https://glimpse-editor.org/posts/
2019-10-08T11:02:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No _real_ changes have been made.
2019-10-08T11:02:33 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> What's wrong with a simple patch which is rebased on each update of gimp (updates are few and spread)?
2019-10-08T11:11:26 #kisslinux <retard> it wouldn't be an egregious power grab?
2019-10-08T11:14:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> heh
2019-10-08T11:15:21 #kisslinux <z3bra> oi
2019-10-08T11:27:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> What's up?
2019-10-08T11:32:47 #kisslinux <E5ten> No such thing as too hostile towards RMS
2019-10-08T11:33:17 #kisslinux <z3bra> not much, was checking some stuff about aerc
2019-10-08T11:33:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > No such thing as too hostile towards RMS
2019-10-08T11:34:18 #kisslinux <E5ten> IMO he's a scourge on the open source world and his brand of "freedom" of software has been a terrible thing
2019-10-08T11:34:19 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I mean, he's a person too and this must be tough for him.
2019-10-08T11:34:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The abuse I've read towards him this past month has been terrible.
2019-10-08T11:34:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Why? If you don't mind me asking.
2019-10-08T11:36:59 #kisslinux <E5ten> Because GPL doesn't lead to more freedom, it leads to companies deciding to make shittier in house proprietary solutions because they have no reason to deal with projects using such openly hostile licenses, permissive licensing on the other hand has shown over and over that if you aren't hostile towards companies they're much more likely to actually be useful contributors
2019-10-08T11:37:25 #kisslinux <E5ten> Imagine if all along gcc had been seeing the kind of support and development from big companies that LLVM gets
2019-10-08T11:38:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> LLVM only gets support from companies because it was started by Apple (the only reason it exists too).
2019-10-08T11:39:11 #kisslinux <E5ten> LLVM gets support from google because it's not GPL
2019-10-08T11:39:39 #kisslinux <konimex> honestly, I'm on the fence on the copyleft vs non-copyleft issue
2019-10-08T11:40:16 #kisslinux <E5ten> Copyleft is at best ineffective (when companies work with permissively licensed alternatives instead) and at best harmful (when they develop shitty closed source in house alternatives instead)
2019-10-08T11:40:26 #kisslinux <retard> yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man
2019-10-08T11:40:47 #kisslinux <konimex> copyleft, as FSF said, protects "end-user"
2019-10-08T11:41:02 #kisslinux <konimex> permissive, on the other hand, protects the developers
2019-10-08T11:41:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> The reason companies have adopted LLVM is because it is _not_ GCC (GPL licensed).
2019-10-08T11:41:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Sure, had GCC been in an OSS and non-copyleft license it would've seen support from these same companies sooner.
2019-10-08T11:41:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps>  It's thanks to the GPL that we now have two open source compiler suites. ;)
2019-10-08T11:41:29 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> There's a distinction to be made between Open Source and Free Software too. They aren't the same thing.
2019-10-08T11:41:36 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Exactly
2019-10-08T11:41:52 #kisslinux <konimex> I disagree, Free Software and Open Source are practically the same thing
2019-10-08T11:41:58 #kisslinux <konimex> _practically_
2019-10-08T11:42:20 #kisslinux <E5ten> Free software is taking open source and ruining it with pure ideology and 0 regard for practicality
2019-10-08T11:42:23 #kisslinux <konimex> I'd say OSD is even clearer than the 4 freedoms
2019-10-08T11:42:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I don't understand the need to insult the man publicly.
2019-10-08T11:42:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's petty.
2019-10-08T11:43:07 #kisslinux <E5ten> Well that's unrelated, that's because he said some awful shit and there are consequences for saying awful shit
2019-10-08T11:43:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Well, Linux is _the_ direct product of the GPL.
2019-10-08T11:43:25 #kisslinux <retard> maybe arguments happen because people have different perspectives and areas of focus
2019-10-08T11:43:26 #kisslinux <E5ten> Yeah there's freedom of speech, but that doesn't mean people have to like what you say or not call you out for it
2019-10-08T11:43:35 #kisslinux <retard> what was the awful shit stallman said
2019-10-08T11:43:39 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I don't like this self policing.
2019-10-08T11:44:07 #kisslinux <konimex> honestly, if GPL is ineffective you'd think the BSDs would explode right now and proprietary programs (steam, etc.) would be on BSDs instead of Linux
2019-10-08T11:44:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Exactly.
2019-10-08T11:44:35 #kisslinux <E5ten> The GPL is ineffective at its purpose, it doesn't mean that no GPL software will ever succeed
2019-10-08T11:44:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> GPL has its place.
2019-10-08T11:44:52 #kisslinux <konimex> depends, which GPL?
2019-10-08T11:44:54 #kisslinux <konimex> 2 or 3?
2019-10-08T11:45:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It works depending on the type of software (look at the Linux kernel).
2019-10-08T11:45:19 #kisslinux <E5ten> Succeeding as in seeing use is not the success that I'm saying GPL doesn't have
2019-10-08T11:45:22 #kisslinux <konimex> if we're talking about 3, I'd agree, but should RMS stop at 2, it'd be better in the long run imo
2019-10-08T11:46:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You can't discredit the work Stallman has done or how we are where we are today.
2019-10-08T11:46:07 #kisslinux <konimex> > It works depending on the type of software (look at the Linux kernel).
2019-10-08T11:46:14 #kisslinux <konimex> and honestly, the gnu toolchain too
2019-10-08T11:46:33 #kisslinux <konimex> the only reason Apple switched to LLVM is GPL *version 3*
2019-10-08T11:46:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I prefer 2 to 3.
2019-10-08T11:46:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm not talking about use.
2019-10-08T11:47:01 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Compare the BSDs to Linux.
2019-10-08T11:47:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's the terms of the license itself.
2019-10-08T11:47:46 #kisslinux <konimex> well of course, the terms of the license caused the LLVM/Clang project
2019-10-08T11:47:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> This effort to remove Stallman is too coordinated in my eyes.
2019-10-08T11:48:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Something fishy about it to me.
2019-10-08T11:48:38 #kisslinux <E5ten> I don't see it that way, it's shit PR for them for him to stick around
2019-10-08T11:49:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Why now though?
2019-10-08T11:49:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Why not decades ago if this is as I've read a long time coming.
2019-10-08T11:49:34 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I don't want to hear "Straw that broke the camel's back either".
2019-10-08T11:49:39 #kisslinux <E5ten> "In September 2019, it was reported that Stallman had made statements on an internal CSAIL listserv in defense of deceased MIT professor Marvin Minsky, in relation to Virginia Giuffre's deposition that she was directed to have sex with Minsky by Jeffrey Epstein.[118][119] As a response, Stallman resigned from both MIT and the Free Software Foundation.[21][120][121]"
2019-10-08T11:50:09 #kisslinux <E5ten> This incident is way more public and known about than any other bad shit he's said
2019-10-08T11:50:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> And?
2019-10-08T11:50:13 #kisslinux <konimex> sure, Stallman has a shitty opinion, but attacking the person (i.e. Matt Lee) makes you look like he personally called your family unpleasant things
2019-10-08T11:50:31 #kisslinux <E5ten> He has never been a bigger PR risk for them than now
2019-10-08T11:50:40 #kisslinux <E5ten> It therefore makes perfect sense that they'd want him out now and not earlier
2019-10-08T11:50:52 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> What risk though?
2019-10-08T11:52:15 #kisslinux <Woodi> you see, some network code was liberaly licensed and MS take it and make it theirs own private... I would do not like if someone make that to my code -> I like virality in GPL
2019-10-08T11:52:38 #kisslinux <retard> the "bad shit" is that he feels like you shouldn't besmirch a deceased mans name over having been offered and refused sex with an underage girl
2019-10-08T11:52:41 #kisslinux <retard> gotcha
2019-10-08T11:52:45 #kisslinux <retard> what a villain!
2019-10-08T11:52:46 #kisslinux <E5ten> Generally you don't want people hating your organization, and if people hate your organization's leader that is not helpful towards people not hating your organization
2019-10-08T11:53:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's his organiation though.
2019-10-08T11:53:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Let's throw the man who built it to the curb and personally attack him publicly.
2019-10-08T11:53:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Really nice.
2019-10-08T11:53:27 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> organization*
2019-10-08T11:54:08 #kisslinux <konimex> but it really shows that the free software movement has no one to represent other than Stallman himself
2019-10-08T11:54:27 #kisslinux <E5ten> It doesn't matter whether you think the "shit" was "bad" though, *the public does and that's all that matters*
2019-10-08T11:54:29 #kisslinux <konimex> Stallman's out and rest assured both GNU and FSF die
2019-10-08T11:54:38 #kisslinux <E5ten> Our personal opinions are irrelevant
2019-10-08T11:54:59 #kisslinux <konimex> E5ten: by public you meant Coraline Ada Ehmke and co.
2019-10-08T11:55:01 #kisslinux <konimex> ?
2019-10-08T11:55:04 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I really despise this self policing that is going on.
2019-10-08T11:55:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> How long before your opinions aren't "acceptable" and they come for your job?
2019-10-08T11:56:45 #kisslinux <E5ten> I'm a first year uni student so I'm not too worried 😏
2019-10-08T11:56:51 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Seperate the art from the artist. It's not hard.
2019-10-08T11:57:13 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> You should be.
2019-10-08T11:57:37 #kisslinux <konimex> so "they came for the X, and I didn't speak out because..."
2019-10-08T11:57:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Exactly.
2019-10-08T11:58:01 #kisslinux <retard> why don't you want people hating your organization?
2019-10-08T11:58:08 #kisslinux <retard> that's free publicity
2019-10-08T11:58:16 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> All publicity is good publicity.
2019-10-08T11:58:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...
2019-10-08T11:58:57 #kisslinux <E5ten> When the art is entirely about ideology (I don't think it's exactly contentious to say that the FSF is about ideology) then the "artist's" ideology in other areas is pretty hard to separate
2019-10-08T11:59:48 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Stallman's personal opinions != The FSF's opinions.
2019-10-08T11:59:48 #kisslinux <E5ten> Yeah, I'm well aware of first they came, I was making a joking response to you saying they might come for my job, I don't actually think about it like "oh I'm not threatened so I won't speak out for stallman"
2019-10-08T12:00:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> What happened to having thick skin?
2019-10-08T12:01:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Seems gone today.
2019-10-08T12:01:20 #kisslinux <retard> developers have forgotten the robustness principle
2019-10-08T12:01:49 #kisslinux <E5ten> "Most of the FSF funding comes from patrons and members.[55] Revenue streams also come from free-software-related compliance labs, job postings, published works, and a web store. FSF offers speakers and seminars for pay, and all FSF projects accept donations."
2019-10-08T12:02:01 #kisslinux <E5ten> Do you know what happens when people hate your organization's leader?
2019-10-08T12:02:05 #kisslinux <E5ten> Less of all of that
2019-10-08T12:02:47 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> People will say things you either don't like or don't agree with. It's OK.
2019-10-08T12:03:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's not something someone should lose their decades of work over.
2019-10-08T12:03:32 #kisslinux <E5ten> That doesn't really address what I said
2019-10-08T12:04:17 #kisslinux <retard> people have always hated stallman
2019-10-08T12:04:33 #kisslinux <retard> polarization doesn't prohibit or prevent success
2019-10-08T12:04:58 #kisslinux <konimex> to be fair, a lot of GNU projects are developed by paid devs (i.e. Red Hat payroll) so donations are a tad bit irrelevant
2019-10-08T12:05:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Hell, I myself don't speak openly about what I believe in for the same reasons.
2019-10-08T12:05:13 #kisslinux <konimex> just look at Mozilla
2019-10-08T12:07:13 #kisslinux <retard> do you believe in life after love?
2019-10-08T12:10:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Open Source has a funding problem overall.
2019-10-08T12:10:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> No way would the FSF have gone bust or lost a substantial amount of funding over this.
2019-10-08T12:11:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> If anything they've lost more funding due to what happened to Stallman rather than what he said.
2019-10-08T12:12:42 #kisslinux <E5ten> It's also beneficial to have the public not hate your leader when your purpose is the furthering of an ideology (freedom of software)
2019-10-08T12:13:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Meh
2019-10-08T12:13:17 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Vocal minority or vocal majority?
2019-10-08T12:13:18 #kisslinux <E5ten> If you want people to listen to what you are trying to say not being hated is pretty crucial
2019-10-08T12:13:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Was the truth presented to people through the media? I don't think so.
2019-10-08T12:13:53 #kisslinux <E5ten> I'd say people mad at RMS over this and more importantly just people who know about this in general is larger in reach than the past
2019-10-08T12:14:49 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Again, is it a vocal minority or is it the majority?
2019-10-08T12:14:50 #kisslinux <konimex> I don't know, man, a certain country hates the president yet they love the ideology
2019-10-08T12:14:53 #kisslinux <E5ten> And with more awareness of the FSF and stallman stemming from what he said, and that awareness in regards to stallman at least being overall negative, I'd say the FSF wanting to keep that from extending to them makes sense
2019-10-08T12:14:58 #kisslinux <E5ten> I don't think it's a minority
2019-10-08T12:15:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> They could've very easily stood their ground.
2019-10-08T12:15:35 #kisslinux <E5ten> And if they did the public would have a lower opinion of them
2019-10-08T12:15:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Fact of the matter is that no one really cares.
2019-10-08T12:15:59 #kisslinux <axpira> Hi, I tried to install kiss but when i restart it's only show "GRUB loading" and enter in a boot loop. What I need to do?
2019-10-08T12:16:42 #kisslinux <axpira> Or what I forget to do?
2019-10-08T12:17:29 #kisslinux <E5ten> konimex: more than half that country doesn't like that ideology
2019-10-08T12:17:54 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> More than half of the country voted him in remember?
2019-10-08T12:18:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> axpira: Virtual machine?
2019-10-08T12:18:21 #kisslinux <E5ten> They did not
2019-10-08T12:18:38 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Isn't that how voting works?
2019-10-08T12:18:46 #kisslinux <axpira> No, It's my laptop
2019-10-08T12:18:53 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Ah.
2019-10-08T12:18:56 #kisslinux <E5ten> 3 million more people voted against him than did for him
2019-10-08T12:19:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> How did he win then?
2019-10-08T12:19:12 #kisslinux <E5ten> But the US election system is so fucked that he won anyway
2019-10-08T12:19:16 #kisslinux <E5ten> Electoral college
2019-10-08T12:19:50 #kisslinux <konimex> axpira: that's it? just GRUB Loading?
2019-10-08T12:19:54 #kisslinux <konimex> UEFI or BIOS?
2019-10-08T12:19:56 #kisslinux <E5ten> The US is "democratic" but also "if you live in a big state your vote objectively counts for less, sucks to be you"
2019-10-08T12:20:35 #kisslinux <axpira> Yes, It's only "GRUB loading" then the screen goes black and my machine reboot
2019-10-08T12:20:36 #kisslinux <axpira> BIOS
2019-10-08T12:21:34 #kisslinux <konimex> maybe it doesn't detect grub config?
2019-10-08T12:21:43 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> True democracy doesn't exist and besides, the US is a Federal Republic.
2019-10-08T12:21:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> konimex: I think that's it.
2019-10-08T12:21:58 #kisslinux <axpira> How can I check this?
2019-10-08T12:22:19 #kisslinux <konimex> you can check in /boot/grub/grub.cfg
2019-10-08T12:22:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Boot a live-cd, mount your disks, chroot in and check '/boot/grub/grub.cfg'.
2019-10-08T12:22:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Then you can repair it with the 'grub-' commands.
2019-10-08T12:23:00 #kisslinux <E5ten> Whether or not you think it's a good system is irrelevant to if he's more popular, the fact of the matter is that his opponent got 3 million more votes, so he isn't
2019-10-08T12:24:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Source? First I'm hearing about this.
2019-10-08T12:24:57 #kisslinux <E5ten> Please just google the last presidential election's popular vote because there are so many sources that I couldn't possible choose the best one
2019-10-08T12:24:59 #kisslinux <konimex> even if the US is a federal republic, they still should've used one man one vote instead of EC, let the Representatives and the Senate do the work of making sure the sitting President "is in shape"
2019-10-08T12:25:02 #kisslinux <E5ten> But like fine I'll go get one
2019-10-08T12:26:06 #kisslinux <E5ten> I agree, and the US is a "Constitutional Democratic Federal Republic" with the word democratic right there, just because true democracy doesn't exist and it isn't one doesn't mean you can handwave all undemocratic elements of it as non-issues because it's not a democracy
2019-10-08T12:26:16 #kisslinux <axpira> I check the file  /boot/grub/grub.cfg and has many options one is menuentry 'KISS GNU/Linux .......'
2019-10-08T12:26:45 #kisslinux <E5ten> Like "it's not technically a true democracy" is not a valid excuse for "an Alaskan has 4 times the vote of a californian"
2019-10-08T12:26:57 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> What is your partition layout like?
2019-10-08T12:27:17 #kisslinux <axpira> Only /boot ext2 and / ext4
2019-10-08T12:27:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Does the grub entry correctly point to the / partition?
2019-10-08T12:28:25 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's not "technically" _not_ a democracy, it outright isn't one. Real democracy exists nowhere.
2019-10-08T12:28:41 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's not an excuse, it's a fact.
2019-10-08T12:28:56 #kisslinux <axpira> Has one line with linux /vmlinuz root=/dev/nvme0n1p2
2019-10-08T12:28:59 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> One man = one vote, sure. That would be better.
2019-10-08T12:29:16 #kisslinux <konimex> also in a lot of countries voting day is not a holiday
2019-10-08T12:29:26 #kisslinux <konimex> really?
2019-10-08T12:29:30 #kisslinux <E5ten> It's not a real democracy, but it's supposed to be pretty democratic, hence it not being a democracy not being an excuse for clearly and egregiously undemocratic elements
2019-10-08T12:29:40 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> root= looks wrong for some reason.
2019-10-08T12:29:45 #kisslinux <E5ten> Like Alaskans having votes that are worth 4 times as much as Californians
2019-10-08T12:30:04 #kisslinux <E5ten> https://transition.fec.gov/pubrec/fe2016/federalelections2016.pdf page 10 has the popular vote results
2019-10-08T12:30:05 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It not being a democracy is why there are undemocratic elements.
2019-10-08T12:30:17 #kisslinux <konimex> root= is normal in SSD systems
2019-10-08T12:30:25 #kisslinux <axpira> No It's OK, because I have nvme ssd disk
2019-10-08T12:30:30 #kisslinux <E5ten> Yes, but the leaders are supposed to be democratically elected
2019-10-08T12:30:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Mine is /dev/sda1 and I have an SSD.
2019-10-08T12:30:59 #kisslinux <E5ten> So if the elections are undemocratic that is an undemocratic element not excused by it not being a democracy
2019-10-08T12:31:12 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> But it's not a democracy.
2019-10-08T12:32:01 #kisslinux <E5ten> "A republic (Latin: res publica, meaning “public affair”) is a form of government in which the country is considered a "public matter", not the private concern or property of the rulers. The primary positions of power within a republic are not inherited, but are attained through democracy, oligarchy, or autocracy. It is the opposing form of government to a monarchy and as such has no monarch as head of state.[1][2][3]"
2019-10-08T12:32:44 #kisslinux <konimex> depends, iirc your SSD is SATA, newer devices use NVME, I have that one too
2019-10-08T12:32:49 #kisslinux <E5ten> Is power in the United States supposed to be attained through oligarchy or autocracy?
2019-10-08T12:32:53 #kisslinux <E5ten> (no)
2019-10-08T12:33:25 #kisslinux <konimex> axpira: are you sure there's no more after GRUB Loading? usually there's some Error codes after that
2019-10-08T12:34:22 #kisslinux <E5ten> So then power in the United States is supposed to be attained through democracy, by process of elimination of the 3 methods of attaining power within a republic, and so if the elections, which are the way of determining who gets power, aren't democratic, that is a problem unexcused by the US not being a "true democracy"
2019-10-08T12:36:29 #kisslinux <axpira> I'll check again
2019-10-08T12:36:53 #kisslinux <axpira> I need to goes out, but i'll try later
2019-10-08T12:36:55 #kisslinux <axpira> Thanks
2019-10-08T12:37:03 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Anytime :)
2019-10-08T12:38:09 #kisslinux <konimex> Westminster systems are usually better than any others anyway
2019-10-08T12:41:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's all pointless when most of the developed world runs under Corporatocracy anyway.
2019-10-08T12:47:18 #kisslinux <retard> paretocracy
2019-10-08T13:37:15 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > The Firefox build process is already Python 3.5.
2019-10-08T13:37:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1AzM3EOThG7GeMSCS5CcaTkojQEneaNj3N07igLBkyvc/edit#
2019-10-08T13:37:44 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > The mozbuild module may disappear in 2019H2/2020H1 if we switch to a third-party build system such as Starlark.
2019-10-08T13:37:46 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Interesting.
2019-10-08T13:59:55 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Forced nodejs to build with Python 3 and I'm 30 minutes into a build.
2019-10-08T14:31:21 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Nodejs built with Python 3. O.o
2019-10-08T14:33:10 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> It's not meant to work yet.
2019-10-08T14:39:32 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/commit/84efd40d3c7a62cd4a01a6bf6c14f291d620b05f
2019-10-08T14:39:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> HEH
2019-10-08T14:39:42 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Just Firefox to go and Python 2 can die.
2019-10-08T14:40:00 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> So now we have Python 2 and GTK2 needed solely at make time for Firefox.
2019-10-08T14:48:08 #kisslinux <unternet> which is ... more and more often https://hacks.mozilla.org/2019/09/moving-firefox-to-a-faster-4-week-release-cycle/ ...
2019-10-08T14:51:35 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Yup
2019-10-08T14:51:45 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> My plan is to have the beta packaged once it's available.
2019-10-08T14:52:02 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm using 70 beta already and fixed 2-3 issues with the build. ;)
2019-10-08T14:52:31 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> See this: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1377445
2019-10-08T14:52:50 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> GTK+2 is still needed in Firefox for NPAPI which is only kept around for Flash.
2019-10-08T14:53:09 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> > Firefox's Flash support (and thus NPAPI support) will be removed sometime in 2020.
2019-10-08T14:53:50 #kisslinux <unternet> about fucking time
2019-10-08T14:54:06 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> What's funny is that GTK+2 isn't even used at runtime by Firefox.
2019-10-08T14:54:20 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> In KISS I just rm the gtk2 file after build.
2019-10-08T14:55:23 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Firefox uses dlopen() anyway so it's "optional"...
2019-10-08T16:07:07 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> I'm attempting to rip out GTK2 from Firefox.
2019-10-08T16:07:11 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> Lets see how this goes.
2019-10-08T19:02:08 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> CC and friends now work in all packages. :)
2019-10-08T21:10:18 #kisslinux <dylanaraps> KISS' xorg-server is now always rootless: https://github.com/kisslinux/repo/commit/0deee6aa92ecbf0219913ee9c9337cdaa5cd3ff3
2019-10-08T22:50:14 #kisslinux <axpira> Hi, How can I auto load module on start?
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